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Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/9/2012 5:19:42 PM

BambiBoi

Posts: 461
Joined: 8/10/2010
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There have been scenes where I, as a top, I did not feel comfortable continuing. I err on the side of caution and follow my gut. Deep down, I knew the sub could handle a smaller cage, or harder strikes, or less air, or a bigger toy. I stopped because I was not comfortable administering "more" despite cries begging for it.

Afterwards I felt inadequate, like I've spoiled their magic and could not please them in the way they want.I'm not terribly interested in "dominance is all about what you want, so tough cookies for subs" answers. I care deeply about my submisive's enjoyment during play (see profile about how Lil Bamboo is now a service top).

For tops and dominants: Do you ever feel guilty about putting a cap on sub frenzy? Do you ever indulge a little more than you'd like to to facilitate sub frenzy?

For bottoms and submissives: Do you ever feel disappointed when you wanted more but the other side had to be "the responsible" one? If you were disappointed, did it have a lasting effect? Have you ever considered "this person is not extreme enough for me, I should leave?"

We all trade off some safety for enjoyment. We all measure the balance differently. Some think the rush of blindfolded exhibitionist promiscuity is a fantastic Wednesday night. Others think "that's a great way to get syphilis and get arrested." For those willing to throw more caution to the wind, what do you think of soft little teddy bears like me?

_____________________________

<3

Post #: 1

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/9/2012 6:08:37 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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I don't think I've ever felt disappointed in the play. There have been times when he stopped because he didn't feel comfortable. I just shrug it off and figure he's Master. He knows what he's doing and if he feels something is wrong then I will trust him to know that. There have been times though where I wanted to be bound for longer because I was so zoned out and didn't want to come out of it but I don't think I was disappointed...just didn't want it to end.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 2

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/9/2012 6:12:10 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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It happens a lot. When I'm topping, I have to make judgment calls, and I'd rather err on the side of too little than too much. I HAVE had bottoms get ticked when they thought I gave them too much, and I'd rather not have that again.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 3

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/9/2012 6:33:42 PM

MistressDarkArt

Posts: 5178
Status: offline

As dominant, it's my job to ensure my partner is safe. I pay attention to gut instincts; if the full monty isn't safe I don't think twice or feel inadequate about stopping short. Then again, I ride a VERY fine line on the person's limits and practice those things I'm proficient with.

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 4

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/9/2012 6:47:18 PM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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As a bottom, I'd rather have my Top leave me wanting a little more than leaving me wanting to call the police

Ok, I've never actually wanted to call the police, but I'd rather go progressively heavier with someone than have to Yellow due to anxiety (which ended the scene) and have an anxiety attack before our next (and last) scene, which did happen.

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(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 5

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/9/2012 6:51:57 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

Never felt bad about a judgment call. As the person whose brain is NOT fucked up on natural opioids, it's on me to make sure there are no undesired traumas.

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[page 23 girl]

(in reply to kalikshama)

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RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/9/2012 6:55:44 PM

kalikshama

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Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

Have you ever considered "this person is not extreme enough for me, I should leave?"

Not exactly - what I commonly think is "this person isn't experienced enough; it won't work."

In your scenario, the person isn't interested, in mine, he's interested but needs education, which I am ambivalent about providing.

_____________________________

Curious about the "Sluts Vote" avatars? See http://www.collarchat.com/m_4133036/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4133036

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 7

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/9/2012 6:59:59 PM

SpaceSpank

Posts: 244
Joined: 10/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Never felt bad about a judgment call. As the person whose brain is NOT fucked up on natural opioids, it's on me to make sure there are no undesired traumas.

Exactly that.

If, after it's all said and done, we talk and they firmly believe they can go beyond whatever the stopping point was, then it can be worked on next time.

Better to ease off sometimes in the name of safety/caution than to say "fuck it" and have aftercare include recovering from an injury or trauma of some type.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 8

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/9/2012 9:35:20 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

There have been a couple of times that I can remember that Master stopped something because it just wasn't working out or he realized that what may look good in your research and fantasy, doesn't always become reality. It's just one of those things that if it doesn't feel right you end it. No big deal. I wouldn't see him as inexperienced but just trying something out that simply didn't work. Plus, I like being his guinea pig.

There was even a time where I begged him to let me down off of a cross at a play party because I was starting to feel sick and dizzy. He asked me a few questions about what was wrong and then immediately let me down. The play party was extremely hot that night and being I'm going through menopause it made me even hotter to the point I was going to pass out. So he just switched me to something else where I wouldn't have to worry about passing out and he made sure he had plenty of water bottles on hand. Again, not a big deal. It happens, it's life. Just make sure you both communicate with one another on the concerns or problems.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to SpaceSpank)

Post #: 9

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/9/2012 10:29:53 PM

Jaquin

Posts: 156
Joined: 12/12/2011
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Recently had a scene with a friend where I was top (one of two), and she really wanted to seriously try to fight back; which was a lot of fun - though I could have done without the spitting and biting, though she got smacked good for that - but it also meant that I worried about her hands more, because once I had them tied she pulled a fair bit and I ended up ending things. After she said she'd been just fine and could have kept going but at the time I felt otherwise.

Ya it kinda sucks cause all of us were having fun but I'd rather have fun for a shorter time then deal with possible damage to her because ropes done in haste and a struggling bottom didn't mix for however long the feelings wanted them to.

There is always next time you have a session for a bit harder or a bit longer.

_____________________________

"The feeling of freedom, and freedom denied."

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 10

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/9/2012 11:21:16 PM

AthenaSurrenders

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Joined: 3/15/2012
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I'm probably not the right person to answer because I hardly throw caution to the wind - I only play with my husband and I'm not a masochist (I keep saying that, you're all going to stop believing me soon). But here we go anyway.

There have been moments when, swept up in excitement, I've wanted more than he has felt sensible. We're not particularly extreme or edgy, so we're not really talking physical danger, but he might think that we're going further or faster than I can handle. If there ever is a moment of disappointment it is followed later by appreciating his choice. If there's something that seems a step too far during play, it just means we haven't done our groundwork yet. Maybe we need to build up more slowly. Maybe we need to do some reading up to be certain we're doing things safely. Maybe we need to have a conversation about it away from playtime to check we are both on the same page. We can always go back and try again, there's no rush.

Also, I do feel the dom/top is just as entitled to limits as anyone else. Just as we would tell new subs, new doms should always be reminded that they too can draw a line and say 'this is too much for me'. I don't think that is at odds with wanting to make sure the bottom enjoys it.

I suppose if I were playing with you and you were backing out of a lot of what we had discussed, or really playing much lighter than you advertised, I might feel a bit deflated. It would speak of under-confidence, but better that than being overconfident, or trying to mask your under-confidence by whalloping away to prove yourself.

If I were into playing with others, I'd be very interested in playing with you. You always seem like a nice mix of creative and sensible.

But maybe I am just dazzled by your charisma

by Athena, first disciple, 'Cult of Bambi'

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 11

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/10/2012 1:21:50 AM

Winterapple

Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline

Better to be cautious than reckless.
And even if I feel I could go further
I'll still respect their decision.

That being said it has been a source
of frustration in a couple of previous
relationships. I wouldn't say I was
desiring of anything extreme only that
they were to mild. I wanted power
exchange and they only wanted in
the bedroom mild hanky spanky.

In the relationship I first began
exploring it was just a novelty
for him. When the novelty wore
off he wasn't interested in it being
a part of our relationship. I won't
say it was what broke us up entirely
but it didn't help things.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 12

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/10/2012 3:13:04 AM

RaspberryLemon

Posts: 422
Joined: 7/18/2011
Status: offline

My Master and I don't do anything "extreme" in the bedroom, so I really can't comment on that. We're very in-sync about what we like and do, so it just doesn't come up that one of us wants something sexually that the other isn't comfortable with.

However, there have been times when he's said 'no, we're/you're not doing this' about something (non-bedroom related) I wanted to do because he felt it was unsafe or dangerous in a way he wasn't ok with. Whether that be me pushing myself too hard when injured, or me trying to swim (what he felt was too far out for me) in the ocean in an area with stronger tides, or a suggestion I have for an activity/trip he felt was reckless or unsafe...he has had no hesitation in being "responsible" in these cases and is always very firm about it.

In the moment, during these sorts of occasions, I get a little annoyed/disappointed feeling, but it's always fleeting and very quickly replaced by appreciation for his concern and his leadership. In fact, in these times it is like a "tug on the leash" and a firm reminder of his ownership and responsibility over me, as well as my trust in him--that is quite a good feeling.

I can say he doesn't ever feel "inadequate" about not letting me do something/not participating in something that he feels is not safe. His concern is making the right judgment call, keeping us safe and happy, and taking care of me. And doing these things makes him, in fact, very adequate at being in charge.

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 13

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/10/2012 5:41:10 AM

xssve

Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline

I also care about how a sub feels, and for me its not so much that I hold back, it's that I just don't get hasty, some things you have to build up to, Rome wasn't raped in a day.

IOW, I don't feel like I have to give into a subs demands, I'm the one in control: if I don't think you're ready, I'm not gonna do it, the more risk I perceive, the slower I'm gonna go.

That's what mindfuck is for, I'll just tell you in excruciating detail all about what I'm gonna do to you - when you're ready.

But, w/respect to the OP, it sounds to me like you're talking about "casual" play, i.e., with someone who isn't your SO - in which case, I'll certainly endorse erring on the side of caution, even if you suspect she (or he) will just turn right around and find somebody who will fuck them up.

Thing is, the physical part is just a manifestation of of a psychological need - not saying that's always the case, for some, the it's predominantly the physical sensation, but for most it's a mental thing acted out physically, and you can get somebody into that headspace with laying so much as a pinkie on them.

_____________________________

Walking nightmare...

(in reply to RaspberryLemon)

Post #: 14

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/10/2012 6:30:04 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi
Have you ever considered "this person is not extreme enough for me, I should leave?"

If a bottom ever thinks that of me, I don't want her. Her experience better be that she knows she's safe, with someone who knows what he's doing and is enjoying playing with her. If she is expecting me to mesh with her desires 100% on the first play session, it ain't gonna work. And FFS, I've played with people who like it light and held back because I like that person and like playing with her. I'd expect the same courtesy back from my own play partners.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 15

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/10/2012 6:36:43 AM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

There have been scenes where I, as a top, I did not feel comfortable continuing. I err on the side of caution and follow my gut. Deep down, I knew the sub could handle a smaller cage, or harder strikes, or less air, or a bigger toy. I stopped because I was not comfortable administering "more" despite cries begging for it.

Afterwards I felt inadequate, like I've spoiled their magic and could not please them in the way they want.I'm not terribly interested in "dominance is all about what you want, so tough cookies for subs" answers. I care deeply about my submisive's enjoyment during play (see profile about how Lil Bamboo is now a service top).

For tops and dominants: Do you ever feel guilty about putting a cap on sub frenzy? Do you ever indulge a little more than you'd like to to facilitate sub frenzy?

I hope this doesn't come off as overly assholeish or uber selfish sounding but this isn't a problem I've had in along time. I wrestled with it when I was new and doing that back and forth seesaw newbies do where the vacillate between kindness and S/M.
Once I realized that the scene wasn't about her, it was about me doing what I want, that her role in the play was to satisfy me and that doing so was what gave her pleasure and joy, this problem kinda went away.
I don't have to worry about whether she's succumbing to "subfrenzy" because she doesn't dictate the play. I do.
We do what I want when I want it how I want it-it's that simple.
If I want her in a smaller cage and I deem it safe and it's something that strikes my fancy at the time, damnitall, the sluts gonna be staring at the world through iron bars for a while. And if I think she can take more, harder, from a more vicious instrument, then she does that too.
Now I'm not trying to say that I don't groove on the interaction, and that the way she reacts/rides what I'm doing doesn't come into play in determining the next step, but in the end it's my play.To use an analogy, I'm the writer/director/actor/producer and she's the actress taking part.
And I'm certainly not ignoring safety. As mentioned above, we don't use safewords, we just talk. I'm no fool. If she says her shoulder hurts we change positions. If she's having an issue with something else, no biggie. I got the rest of my life to play with her. There'll be other times, other opportunities.

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to xssve)

Post #: 16

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/10/2012 6:47:01 AM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

Personally, I would never want to be with a Dominant who didn't care deeply about my enjoyment during play. I'm not suggesting that everyone has to take that approach, but for me, this type of play is meant to be about mutual enjoyment, not a one-sided Dominant free for all.

I think Tops have their own limits of play (whether limits in a larger sense, of "I don't do this type of play", to limits in an immediate sense of "I think we've both had enough").

I feel strongly that safety should always come first. And there are safe ways to explore more extreme play. But anyone who trades safety for enjoyment is not a safe partner.

For me, BDSM compatibility is about finding someone who matches your interests, and the level of your interests. There have been times in my journey where a relationship hasn't worked out because the level of play that one party was interested in was not the level of play that the other party was interested in. And there is nothing wrong with identifying that there is a mismatch, and then determining whether or not the relationship can withstand that disparity. As a masochist, I can tell you that I can't sustain a BDSM relationship with someone who cannot play at the level that I enjoy. It's just boring for me. I usually screen effectively for this, but every now and again I start a play partner situation with someone and realize, after a time, that they are just not going to be able to Top at the level that I need. It's no one's "fault". It is just a mismatch. And I'm not interested in forcing the situation. So at times like that, the best thing has been to stop the relationship. Again, a Top is entitled to their own limits of play. But submissives are also entitled to find the type and level of play that they personally seek for fulfillment.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 17

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/10/2012 7:33:53 AM

SexyThoughts

Posts: 180
Joined: 7/14/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaquin
Recently had a scene with a friend where I was top (one of two), and she really wanted to seriously try to fight back; which was a lot of fun - though I could have done without the spitting and biting, though she got smacked good for that - but it also meant that I worried about her hands more, because once I had them tied she pulled a fair bit and I ended up ending things. After she said she'd been just fine and could have kept going but at the time I felt otherwise.

Remember that safewords go both way. Tops can safeword too

I've called a timeout, in the middle of a scene best described as Houdini with rabies, because I didn't like the way the restraints were looking. Called a time out, adjusted them to be safer/ more inescapable, while she was figuring out why. Restarted again, with her being twice as motivated/pissed at missing an opportunity.

(in reply to Jaquin)

Post #: 18

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/10/2012 10:01:08 AM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
I hope this doesn't come off as overly assholeish or uber selfish sounding but this isn't a problem I've had in along time. I wrestled with it when I was new and doing that back and forth seesaw newbies do where the vacillate between kindness and S/M.
Once I realized that the scene wasn't about her, it was about me doing what I want, that her role in the play was to satisfy me and that doing so was what gave her pleasure and joy, this problem kinda went away.
I don't have to worry about whether she's succumbing to "subfrenzy" because she doesn't dictate the play. I do.
We do what I want when I want it how I want it-it's that simple.
If I want her in a smaller cage and I deem it safe and it's something that strikes my fancy at the time, damnitall, the sluts gonna be staring at the world through iron bars for a while. And if I think she can take more, harder, from a more vicious instrument, then she does that too.
Now I'm not trying to say that I don't groove on the interaction, and that the way she reacts/rides what I'm doing doesn't come into play in determining the next step, but in the end it's my play.To use an analogy, I'm the writer/director/actor/producer and she's the actress taking part.
And I'm certainly not ignoring safety. As mentioned above, we don't use safewords, we just talk. I'm no fool. If she says her shoulder hurts we change positions. If she's having an issue with something else, no biggie. I got the rest of my life to play with her. There'll be other times, other opportunities.

I don't think this comes off as assholish at all, but I do think some of this has to do with the difference between being in a power-exchange relationship vs 'just' scening together.
What you described is how it usually works for us too. I think (correct me if I'm wrong, Bambi) the OP was thinking less of ongoing D/s dynamics and more about good old fashioned top/bottom scenes without the ongoing dynamic. Whilst I'm sure this does happen in some people's scenes, when people are playing more for sensation than power exchange it often is about the bottom's pleasure and fun as much as the top's. Especially if you are acting as a service top, as Bambi says he does. I can see why he feels some degree of pressure to perform to the particular standards the sub/bottom wants.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 19

RE: Feeling Inadequte Due to Safety? - 9/10/2012 11:15:13 AM

onlyfreelycaged

Posts: 254
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

As a Maso/bottom, I need my limits pushed... but not far enough to send me to the Emergency room. When I'm playing I often loose track of what's safe. So, I may be begging for it when it's not a good idea.
Even with that said, I'd rather learn that we're not comptable with play then end up with me hurt, or you going too far over the comfortable line. And there's always next time for it to go harder.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 20

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