stellauk
Posts: 1360
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marc2b
quote:
Disagree. Freedom of speech carries with it responsibility to respect the social and cultural standards of your audience. When you disrespect the society and culture of your audience you abuse the right of free speech.
I disagree.
It's okay I understand. Thing is that what I posted about freedom of speech I didn't phrase my point as well as I thought so I thought I would come back and try again.
I still disagree having read what you wrote in response.
Freedom of speech carries with it responsibility, and that responsibility is to the culture and society which grants you that right of freedom of speech.
That right isn't something which is cheap, but something which has been paid for by the struggles of others, the blood of others and even the lives of others.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marc2b
Secondly, your statement presumes that all societies and cultures are worthy of respect.
If we are to actually be civilized, and not just call ourselves civilized, then respect for our own culture and society and that of others isn't a presumption, but a necessity.
Then you say..
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marc2b
Respect is one of those “HOORAY!” words like “justice” or “fairness.” We all want justice… the problem is that we all don’t agree what constitutes justice.
That what is law, the courts, the justice system, this is an agreement over what constitutes justice in a society or culture. This is the standard.
This is the standard what is worthy of respect because if it isn't respected it is diminished and it is that standard on which all our freedoms are based.
You give the examples of discrimination against homosexuals and female circumcision as cultures which are possibly not worthy of respect.
What you appear to miss is that there is also morality, and morality is an individual thing. While discrimination against homosexuals may exist within a culture it remains a choice and it is always that individual who makes that moral decision to discriminate against homosexuals, just as the same is true of those who practise female circumcision.
Racism is also part of society and culture but it is individuals who make that choice to hold racist views. If racism was part of the standard, for example when we talk about apartheid in South Africa or segregation in the United States then perhaps yes, but as far as I'm aware apartheid is no longer the standard in South Africa nor is segregation the standard in the United States.
Part of respecting the standard is holding individual people responsible for their views, their beliefs, their speech and their actions. This is why we have the concept of crime and punishment to highlight that there are elements of culture and society which do not conform to the standard because if they were they would diminish that standard.
Then you make a statement such as
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marc2b
These metaphorical fingers are not engaging in violence.
This is where you miss my point.
Indifference doesn't uphold the right of freedom of speech, but diminishes it.
Religion does not condone hatred, bigotry and violence and I'm sorry but sticking the word 'fundamentalist' afterwards doesn't justify it either.
You are quite right when you assert that the initiators of violence are the ones responsible for the violence. I agree.
But violence doesn't only come with actions, it can also be expressed through words, as can hatred, bigotry and this means that there is no justification for those such as Pastor Jones.
There can be no justification for acts of terrorism. But there is also no justification for the bigotry, hatred and enmity directed towards the Muslims. The standard was established at the end of the Second World War when Nazism and persecution of the Jews was also held to be unacceptable.
Freedom of speech carries with it responsibility to the standards of one's culture and society.
Statements like the film and those of Pastor Jones are an abuse of freedom of speech and to argue that this is free speech and acceptable, to show that indifference, is to side with those responsible for the hatred, the bigotry, the terrorism and the violence.
However I am saying that not only terrorism is unacceptable, not only violence is unacceptable, but bigotry, hatred and enmity is also unacceptable. It is not free speech, for it is below the standard.
And I stand very solidly on the side of those servicemen, diplomats and journalists who died in their service to their country defending the very standard on which rests our freedoms.
I hope this makes it clear now where I am coming from.
_____________________________
Usually when you have all the answers for something nobody is interested in listening.
|
RE: Well done Pastor Jones. - 
Profile
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread