President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (Full Version)

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subrob1967 -> President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 2:06:42 AM)

quote:




The killings of the US ambassador to Libya and three of his staff were likely to have been the result of a serious and continuing security breach, The Independent can reveal.

American officials believe the attack was planned, but Chris Stevens had been back in the country only a short while and the details of his visit to Benghazi, where he and his staff died, were meant to be confidential.

The US administration is now facing a crisis in Libya. Sensitive documents have gone missing from the consulate in Benghazi and the supposedly secret location of the "safe house" in the city, where the staff had retreated, came under sustained mortar attack. Other such refuges across the country are no longer deemed "safe".

Some of the missing papers from the consulate are said to list names of Libyans who are working with Americans, putting them potentially at risk from extremist groups, while some of the other documents are said to relate to oil contracts.

According to senior diplomatic sources, the US State Department had credible information 48 hours before mobs charged the consulate in Benghazi, and the embassy in Cairo, that American missions may be targeted, but no warnings were given for diplomats to go on high alert and "lockdown", under which movement is severely restricted.


And why do we have to hear about this from the British Press?

Now since the Bush 9-11 story has a thread running, I thought it was time for some reciprocity.

What did Obama and Clinton know, and when did they know it?
Why weren't preventative actions taken?
I would imagine a threat like the one in the story would have been in the daily briefing, how come additional security wasn't in place?




DomKen -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 2:33:06 AM)

Do you have any idea how many 'credible threats' the SD receives per day? And no it would not in general be in the President's daily briefing.




DesideriScuri -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 3:39:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Do you have any idea how many 'credible threats' the SD receives per day? And no it would not in general be in the President's daily briefing.


I don't. How many?




DomYngBlk -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 4:50:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:




The killings of the US ambassador to Libya and three of his staff were likely to have been the result of a serious and continuing security breach, The Independent can reveal.

American officials believe the attack was planned, but Chris Stevens had been back in the country only a short while and the details of his visit to Benghazi, where he and his staff died, were meant to be confidential.

The US administration is now facing a crisis in Libya. Sensitive documents have gone missing from the consulate in Benghazi and the supposedly secret location of the "safe house" in the city, where the staff had retreated, came under sustained mortar attack. Other such refuges across the country are no longer deemed "safe".

Some of the missing papers from the consulate are said to list names of Libyans who are working with Americans, putting them potentially at risk from extremist groups, while some of the other documents are said to relate to oil contracts.

According to senior diplomatic sources, the US State Department had credible information 48 hours before mobs charged the consulate in Benghazi, and the embassy in Cairo, that American missions may be targeted, but no warnings were given for diplomats to go on high alert and "lockdown", under which movement is severely restricted.


And why do we have to hear about this from the British Press?

Now since the Bush 9-11 story has a thread running, I thought it was time for some reciprocity.

What did Obama and Clinton know, and when did they know it?
Why weren't preventative actions taken?
I would imagine a threat like the one in the story would have been in the daily briefing, how come additional security wasn't in place?


Are you crazy. Really? Benghazi , a war zone. And you don't think everyone was already on high alert?




cloudboy -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 6:20:33 AM)


He's not interested in facts or solutions. I asked him how he would have handled the Great Recession, he refused to answer. He wants deficit reduction, but he wants insurance to have to cover preexisting conditions without an individual mandate.

He rails against Obama and the debt accumulated during his term, but he does not want to know the root causes.

Now he wants us to equate Libya with the 2001 9/11 attacks.

I've lost all respect for him.




Owner59 -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 6:27:10 AM)

 

Its`s only been a couple days .......republican......


Why don`t you wait for the smoke clear to and bodies to get buried  and NOT follow Mitt`s lead into embarrassment? [8|]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Why are the cons so irrational about our president?


It`s like they have a chip on their collective shoulders and are hoping/wishing/praying for someone to knock the chip off......

But the personal anger and irrational rage doesn`t let them see that no one gives a fuck about their anger management problems.




hot4bondage -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 6:55:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:




The killings of the US ambassador to Libya and three of his staff were likely to have been the result of a serious and continuing security breach, The Independent can reveal.

American officials believe the attack was planned, but Chris Stevens had been back in the country only a short while and the details of his visit to Benghazi, where he and his staff died, were meant to be confidential.

The US administration is now facing a crisis in Libya. Sensitive documents have gone missing from the consulate in Benghazi and the supposedly secret location of the "safe house" in the city, where the staff had retreated, came under sustained mortar attack. Other such refuges across the country are no longer deemed "safe".

Some of the missing papers from the consulate are said to list names of Libyans who are working with Americans, putting them potentially at risk from extremist groups, while some of the other documents are said to relate to oil contracts.

According to senior diplomatic sources, the US State Department had credible information 48 hours before mobs charged the consulate in Benghazi, and the embassy in Cairo, that American missions may be targeted, but no warnings were given for diplomats to go on high alert and "lockdown", under which movement is severely restricted.


And why do we have to hear about this from the British Press?

Now since the Bush 9-11 story has a thread running, I thought it was time for some reciprocity.

What did Obama and Clinton know, and when did they know it?
Why weren't preventative actions taken?
I would imagine a threat like the one in the story would have been in the daily briefing, how come additional security wasn't in place?


Are you crazy. Really? Benghazi , a war zone. And you don't think everyone was already on high alert?


CBS evening news reported yesterday that no US Marines were present, and that it was a temporary embassy with limited security features. Not that I'm defending Romney. Had he established himself as a constitutional conservative, he could be hammering Obama right now for going to war without the consent of Congress.




Owner59 -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 7:14:43 AM)

 
Not a "temporary" embassy.

We have an embassy in Libya,in the capital, with Marines there.

This was a consulate where meetings were going on.And they did have security personnel their.

Not every bit of business is done in the embassy and they don`t live/work/stay their 24/7.

Many countries have more than one single location for their diplomatic missions.




mnottertail -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 7:17:09 AM)

Had he established himself as a constitutional conservative, he could be hammering Obama right now for going to war without the consent of Congress.

 
Nothing constitutional about a stance like that, he would be the laugingstock of the nation, oh, he already is.




Aylee -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 7:46:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Do you have any idea how many 'credible threats' the SD receives per day? And no it would not in general be in the President's daily briefing.


Of course Mr. Obama would have to attend the security breifings in the first place.




Hillwilliam -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 7:59:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Do you have any idea how many 'credible threats' the SD receives per day? And no it would not in general be in the President's daily briefing.


Of course Mr. Obama would have to attend the security breifings in the first place.

Got a shred of evidence he didn't?




DomYngBlk -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 8:02:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:




The killings of the US ambassador to Libya and three of his staff were likely to have been the result of a serious and continuing security breach, The Independent can reveal.

American officials believe the attack was planned, but Chris Stevens had been back in the country only a short while and the details of his visit to Benghazi, where he and his staff died, were meant to be confidential.

The US administration is now facing a crisis in Libya. Sensitive documents have gone missing from the consulate in Benghazi and the supposedly secret location of the "safe house" in the city, where the staff had retreated, came under sustained mortar attack. Other such refuges across the country are no longer deemed "safe".

Some of the missing papers from the consulate are said to list names of Libyans who are working with Americans, putting them potentially at risk from extremist groups, while some of the other documents are said to relate to oil contracts.

According to senior diplomatic sources, the US State Department had credible information 48 hours before mobs charged the consulate in Benghazi, and the embassy in Cairo, that American missions may be targeted, but no warnings were given for diplomats to go on high alert and "lockdown", under which movement is severely restricted.


And why do we have to hear about this from the British Press?

Now since the Bush 9-11 story has a thread running, I thought it was time for some reciprocity.

What did Obama and Clinton know, and when did they know it?
Why weren't preventative actions taken?
I would imagine a threat like the one in the story would have been in the daily briefing, how come additional security wasn't in place?


Are you crazy. Really? Benghazi , a war zone. And you don't think everyone was already on high alert?


CBS evening news reported yesterday that no US Marines were present, and that it was a temporary embassy with limited security features. Not that I'm defending Romney. Had he established himself as a constitutional conservative, he could be hammering Obama right now for going to war without the consent of Congress.



Could be. Have a hard time believing that a career diplomat wouldn't have raised hell in not having security in a place like Libya. If they didn't....then they fucked up




Owner59 -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 8:02:54 AM)

 


Considering bush ignored most of his......the president is way ahead.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For this to be comparable.....

the president would have had to have a direct warning of an attack....like bush did....but ignored...

Then there would have to be an invasion of some other country other than the attackers.....like bush did....lying into attacking Iraq.

Then there would have to be an escape of the attackers and a giving up of the hunt for them.....like bush did....bin-laden went on to take more wives and make more babies for a decade....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The bodies aren`t even cold yet, cons........

Take a breath .......




hot4bondage -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 8:03:01 AM)

"After Congress repealed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution in January 1971 and President Richard Nixon continued to wage war in Vietnam, Congress passed the War Powers Resolution (Pub.L. 93-148) over the veto of Nixon in an attempt to rein in some of the president's claimed powers. Today, Congress recognizes no claimed power of the president to wage war outside of the War Powers Resolution."

"The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war. The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding a presidential veto.
The War Powers Resolution was disregarded by President Reagan in 1981 by sending military to El Salvador, by President Clinton in 1999, during the bombing campaign in Kosovo, and by President Obama in 2011, when he did not seek congressional approval for the attack on Libyan forces, arguing that the Resolution did not apply to that action. All incidents have had congressional disapproval, but none have had any successful legal actions taken against the president for violations.[2][3] All presidents since 1973 have declared their belief that the act is unconstitutional. [4][5]"--Wikipedia

It seems obvious to me that the founders did not want a president to be able to take us to war without the approval of our representatives. Even a generous interpretation seems to require a 60 day deadline for undeclared/unauthorized wars. Lawyers have made careers out of redefining acts of war, but it's really pretty simple. If we would consider it an act of war when it's done to us, it's an act of war. Obama is building on 29 years of precedent, and Romney will do the same. Yet another crack in the foundation...





Owner59 -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 8:06:25 AM)

It`s a different world than 200 plus years ago.....




Kana -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 8:11:05 AM)

1971 is 200 years ago?




hot4bondage -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 8:22:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

It`s a different world than 200 plus years ago.....


The War Powers Resolution was passed in 1971. I would think more people would support it since it was meant to protect us from Nixon.




Owner59 -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 8:30:13 AM)

I`m referring to the Founding Fathers part of your comment.




mnottertail -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 8:49:24 AM)

It seems obvious to me that the founders did not want a president to be able to take us to war without the approval of our representatives. Even a generous interpretation seems to require a 60 day deadline for undeclared/unauthorized wars. Lawyers have made careers out of redefining acts of war, but it's really pretty simple. If we would consider it an act of war when it's done to us, it's an act of war. Obama is building on 29 years of precedent, and Romney will do the same. Yet another crack in the foundation...

well our founding fathers commanded armies foreign and domestic without congressional  authorization and  :


The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment. The Supreme court has agreed that is the case, and people should read the War Powers Act, it is not applicable in cases where ground troops are not committed. The reason I think that it was not forced with by the congress is that (and here I agree with Barry Goldwater)  it would be found unconstitutional and it doesn't apply.  




DomKen -> RE: President Obama, what did you know, and when did you know it? (9/14/2012 9:22:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage
It seems obvious to me that the founders did not want a president to be able to take us to war without the approval of our representatives. Even a generous interpretation seems to require a 60 day deadline for undeclared/unauthorized wars. Lawyers have made careers out of redefining acts of war, but it's really pretty simple. If we would consider it an act of war when it's done to us, it's an act of war. Obama is building on 29 years of precedent, and Romney will do the same. Yet another crack in the foundation...

Actually the Founders did not believe the President needed Congress to approve any use of the military. See the Whiskey Rebellion.




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