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RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 7:35:26 AM

Thaz

Posts: 617
Joined: 4/28/2012
Status: offline

^^ This.

Hate is generally born of ignorance. Spending a few million on BBC Arabia (or whats left of it since most staff got head hunted to found AlJ) would save far more lives than a new carrier or bombing some village or sending our troops to a foreign land to risk life and limb for a badly lead and conducted war.

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 181

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 7:49:25 AM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

When you go to exterminate vermin, you do not talk with them, you do make threats, you kill them.

This is exactly how the Nazis viewed Jews, gays, gypsies, and other enemies. Your viewpoint certainly has powerful historical precedent. Just not sure that's the path we should follow.

Are you suggesting that the Jews, gays, and gypsies were terrorists? Being fed, sheltered and succored by so called non-combatants?

You might want to read about anti-Semitism in the Christian era as well as the rise of the Nazi party in Germany. Yes, historically, the Jewish people have been viewed as nothing less than evil. And that perspective is what has justified over 6000 years of persecution at the hands of both Christians and Muslims. In a sense, in different eras, they were viewed as terrorists - as so dangerous to the existing society that they had to be removed. Are you denying that anti-Semitisim in all its various terrible forms has existed for thousands of years???

Again, my point is that hatred is not about what others are actually doing. Hatred is about what the haters think. This is an important distinction, and historically, you will find that when people start trying to categorize entire groups of people as vermin, it is the precursor to genocide - and often has less to do with what the people are doing, then the perceived threat that the haters feel. History has many, many important lessons for those who seek guidance.

Hatred is NEVER the answer.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 182

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 7:52:52 AM

xBullx

Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

ORIGINAL: xBullx

These people are AT WAR with us, the sooner we stop paying lip service to that point and then deny that it can be so, the sooner we can inact a proactive stance and ELIMINATE the problem. The problem isn't a film or free speech, the problem is those that reject free speech and use whatever issue available to them to instill hate and discontent.

quote:

Really?

Yes, really..... Don't you believe that we should take a proactive approach to dealing with issues both good and bad that face our nation?

You seem to be a bit overly emotional at times, 59. Maybe if you stepped back and took a breath from time to time you'd feel better.

quote:

These people?

I assume you are confused as to the people I am referring to in my post. It's the people that are attacking our embassies and killing our citizens and allies in this instance. But if you need further clarification, I'll be glad to assist, I had only assumed that readers would be able to understand such matters considering the topic.

quote:

They just happened to start this war after the bigoted film got around?

I didn't realize this was a war. Dammit, this will change my stance completely. Mobilize the 82nd, the 101st and 3 ID immediately. Board the 2nd Marine and Get the USS Ronald Reagan underway. Call Rapid City and load the B1's with nukes.

Don't be naive 59, we both know that Libya was being planned much before this ridiculous film and all the other protests are simply using this film for an excuse to stir up the uneducated masses. And besides, if you wish to surrender this nations right to free speech simply to appease an aggressive contingent of shit stirrers, go ahead and surrender your rights and pack your bags, I'm sure they'd be happy to tell you how to live. Our government stated this is not an American view and even denounced the film. If that isn't enough for "these people" then I suspect they would have found another excuse to start this shit storm of theirs.

quote:

This kind of ignorance and childishness is what got us duped into Iraq with 4500 GIs dead for nothing.

If you say so, I do believe that you are entitled to your opinion, I for one believe that Iraq could have been handled much differently and have said so from the start, but I also believe that we(the UN) had stood and offered Saddam all kinds of leash to hang himself with and he did. I wish we had been smarter about understanding the region better when we "Won the War" on that initial declaration. As we know now, the war was long from over. But those men didn't die for nothing until we just up and left our efforts behind and had yet to have finished the job. Politics won over common sense yet again.

quote:

So Bull,FDF and the other "brave guys"......

How would a Romney or McCain admin. handled things differently?

I have no idea; you'd have to ask them. I only speak for myself. Hell, I suspect that you hold your opinion above my pay grade, therefore I wouldn't even assume to speak for you.

quote:

Would they have allowed terrorist-American-killer gadaffi to commit genocide and wipe out whole cities under a McRomney admin.?

Again, I have no idea. Who is McRomney, did McDonalds create a new Happy Meal Character?

quote:

Would they have helped Mubarak murder his own people....... just to pretend we were safer with him as president?

I'm not privy to anyone else’s stance, but I'd have done the overthrow of Mubarak much the same as Obama was advised to. Though, I'd have been much more proactive in assisting with the establishment of the new government, covertly. But maybe Mr. Obama was and we just don't know it. I will say that since America is taking a back seat much of the time, at least overtly, world sentiment tends to shy away from our position, not because they want to as much as because it the latest fad. Again, just my opinion.

quote:

Exactly.......what would cons do different in the ME......

quote:

Please.............enlighten us.....................Stop keeping it a secret.

I can only enlighten you as to my thoughts and I'm trying, if you ask more direct questions perhaps I can do better.

quote:

You cons have been saying this crap since you started politicizing the deaths of our men in Libya.

Am I a con? I know I have conservative values when it comes to financial issues. But my conservative friends, in particular the Catholic ones tell me I'm too progressive. I can define this comment for you as well, though I’m probably already way too far off topic for most.

Perhaps I am a man with no country since you have to be illegal or doing something illegal to have someone stand up for you in the good ole USA.

Sorry about my tardy reply, I was a bit too busy to get online this weekend.

< Message edited by xBullx -- 9/17/2012 7:53:34 AM >

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 183

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 8:00:41 AM

Thaz

Posts: 617
Joined: 4/28/2012
Status: offline

^^
This as well. Hatred should never control our actions, especially if contemplating violence.

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)

Post #: 184

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 8:01:50 AM

xBullx

Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

What would you do differently?

As I’ve said before…Pull all our troops out of Muslim nations…pull all our diplomats… stay the hell out of their business period. Let them kill each other all they want.

If they mess with us again bomb them to oblivion but put as few American children in danger as possible.

Invest in green alternate energy sources and break this dependence on oil…Oil is what is paying for the terrorists war.

Let them know we will not bother them if they forgo nuclear weapons and if they ignore us destroy their capabilities now...If it is war they want then now is better than later.

Tell Israel to pull back the settlements and make peace or we will withdrawer support…Give them a time table and mean it…

There all fixed if I were king.

Butch

I like Butch's comments right here. Should I make a personal platform noting some of these statements so I don't get mis-labelled in the future. Or are these Neo Con ideas? In any event, I can't really comment on the Israel part of this post, I'm not knowledgable enough on the subject metter to comment.

Personally I only do bussiness with my willing and eager customers. If my service doesn't appeal to someone I doubt their check will be good when I go to cash it; if that makes any sense...

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 185

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 8:20:59 AM

xBullx

Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

And make no mistake, these ambassador raping

I caught this part on the news this past weekend and had one of those WTF moments. Amazing anyone over here is not wanting to let one of our own Sadists to have their way with a few of these radical folks.

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 186

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 8:27:06 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

How do we know it's a crap film?

I still cannot find one person in the entire world who has actually see in it!

It may be but clearly... this "film" is being used as an excuse to cover organized attacks on America.

These people are AT WAR with us, the sooner we stop paying lip service to that point and then deny that it can be so, the sooner we can inact a proactive stance and ELIMINATE the problem. The problem isn't a film or free speech, the problem is those that reject free speech and use whatever issue available to them to instill hate and discontent.

Not sure how you get that they are at war with us. We are the ones that have been at war with them since the late 70's. We've created bases, funded Dictators, Invaded with troops........We've bombed, shot and droned,,,,all in the name of what exactly? Isreal? Oil? We stand up and thump our chests with moral authority and tell them that they are wrong and need to change. Why?

We are there only because that region has the one thing that we want. Oil. Without it....the region would be an extension of africa and we wouldn't give to shits about what went on there.

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 187

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 9:13:30 AM

xBullx

Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

These people are AT WAR with us, the sooner we stop paying lip service to that point and then deny that it can be so, the sooner we can inact a proactive stance and ELIMINATE the problem. The problem isn't a film or free speech, the problem is those that reject free speech and use whatever issue available to them to instill hate and discontent.

Not sure how you get that they are at war with us. We are the ones that have been at war with them since the late 70's. We've created bases, funded Dictators, Invaded with troops........We've bombed, shot and droned,,,,all in the name of what exactly? Isreal? Oil? We stand up and thump our chests with moral authority and tell them that they are wrong and need to change. Why?

We are there only because that region has the one thing that we want. Oil. Without it....the region would be an extension of africa and we wouldn't give to shits about what went on there.

I certainly won't argue the oil thing. Concurrently there are those from the region that have wanted us there because of that oil, for a long time we were their biggest and in some ways only consumer. Hell a few of those countries wouldn't have had the ability to harvest their oil had we not assisted.

The difference today is that we are no longer an exclusive customer and therefore it is easier for certain oil producing states to dismiss the US and its interest.

War is always a two way street. So yes, I agree that we are at war with those that stand opposed to "our" interests. Kind of a life circle thing I suspect.

I for one am great with Obama's idea of alternative fuels. I like utilizing our own intellect and energy sources more as time goes on and then in time developing non-fossil fuels completely. And get this, when we develop new technology that would make oil obsolete, share it for free or at least at a very low, investment recoupable rate of return. My bet is the Arabs won't like that idea either. No oil, a cleaner world and air our kids can breath.

One thing further, I fear if you dig deep enough into Mr. Obama's reasoning for fuel alterations he is motivated by greed no differently than any other past official has supposedly been.

Myself, I think we should take the present opportunity to get our asses out of the Middle East for almost any reason. Though I do believe we are obligated to the defense of Israel.

My personal foreign policy remains; don't want none, don't bring none. We good?

< Message edited by xBullx -- 9/17/2012 9:17:01 AM >

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 188

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 11:19:24 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

I for one am great with Obama's idea of alternative fuels. I like utilizing our own intellect and energy sources more as time goes on and then in time developing non-fossil fuels completely. And get this, when we develop new technology that would make oil obsolete, share it for free or at least at a very low, investment recoupable rate of return. My bet is the Arabs won't like that idea either. No oil, a cleaner world and air our kids can breath.

One thing further, I fear if you dig deep enough into Mr. Obama's reasoning for fuel alterations he is motivated by greed no differently than any other past official has supposedly been.

Careful, Bull, Ive been saying that on this board for a coupla years and it got me branded as a "Leftist".

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 189

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 1:31:24 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Careful, Bull, Ive been saying that on this board for a coupla years and it got me branded as a "Leftist".

A leftist is any goddamned pansy-ass who's still arguing on this board rather than packing his passport and his piece and heading for the boat to Libya, marching with his chest and butt sticking out and rolling his shoulders proudly while singing' "Over there, over there, the Yanks are comin', the Yanks are comin'!'' Yessirree, yeehah! [etc].

I hope that helps, HW.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 190

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 5:01:27 PM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

One thing further, I fear if you dig deep enough into Mr. Obama's reasoning for fuel alterations he is motivated by greed no differently than any other past official has supposedly been.

WTF? What in hell does that mean?

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 191

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 6:52:49 PM

xBullx

Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

One thing further, I fear if you dig deep enough into Mr. Obama's reasoning for fuel alterations he is motivated by greed no differently than any other past official has supposedly been.

WTF? What in hell does that mean?

Wow I was hoping that comment went unnoticed. It’s a good bit off topic to explain it, but.

Concurrently, I could have worded it better, but I was hurrying myself along.

I’ll spell it out for you a bit; then you’ll have to take it from there as I better not comment further, at least in this thread.

I’m saying Obama is no less on the take for the big business guy and other outside influences than those dreaded Neo-Cons.

Notice how Mr. Insurance’s name and references have nearly dropped off the map since the health care bill became law. With his profits making record returns and Berkshire Hathaway stock stronger than ever due in no small part to the AHCA; Mr. Buffet has withdrawn back into the recesses of Omaha.

And what about the President’s chum Jeffrey Immelt, GE is putting up those subsidized windmills as fast as the trucks can deliver them.

My point was Obama and his supporters are no different than those much hated Neo-Cons. And his supposed disdain for oil could have ulterior motives; cha-ching…

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 192

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 8:39:58 PM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

I don't think Geico is primary in Health Insurance and GE sold off its plastics division a few years back to SABIC...so unless it is some kind of turbine windfall I don't think GE stands to gain much.....

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 193

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/17/2012 9:57:07 PM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

Not sure how you get that they are at war with us. We are the ones that have been at war with them since the late 70's. We've created bases, funded Dictators, Invaded with troops........We've bombed, shot and droned,,,,all in the name of what exactly? Isreal? Oil? We stand up and thump our chests with moral authority and tell them that they are wrong and need to change. Why?

We are there only because that region has the one thing that we want. Oil. Without it....the region would be an extension of africa and we wouldn't give to shits about what went on there.

Forcing Israel to the negotiating table and to conclude a fair and just peace with the Palestinians is probably the single most effective thing the US can do to change the way it is perceived (read: hated) in the Muslim world. It is also the easiest, quickest and fairest thing to do.

But it's not going to happen until the US stops sub-contracting it's Middle Eastern policy to AIPAC and the Zionist lobby. So, sad as it makes me to say it, until the US starts to write its own ME policy and act in its own interests, expect more of the same.

_____________________________

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 194

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/18/2012 2:02:08 AM

Viking84

Posts: 3
Joined: 9/13/2012
Status: offline

This problem is centuries old noone can stop it and noone will be able to stop it aslong as religion is about

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 195

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/18/2012 4:03:46 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Forcing Israel to the negotiating table and to conclude a fair and just peace with the Palestinians is probably the single most effective thing the US can do to change the way it is perceived (read: hated) in the Muslim world. It is also the easiest, quickest and fairest thing to do.

But it's not going to happen until the US stops sub-contracting it's Middle Eastern policy to AIPAC and the Zionist lobby. So, sad as it makes me to say it, until the US starts to write its own ME policy and act in its own interests, expect more of the same.

We wont be popular for stating the obvious Tweaks.

Even if the Israeli government stopped the land grabs, especially the obnoxious "Price taggers" It would be a start. Close to 90% of the jewish population want this stopped, so I am at a loss why there hasnt been a major clampdown. One seetlement the "price taggers" erected was closed down but they were only moved 2 miles down the road. This movement is carrying out little more than ethnic clensing by another name.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 196

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/18/2012 8:43:44 AM

papassion

Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
Status: offline

Did everyone miss CNN where they had the President of that country say this was a planned attack on 9-11? His government claims they notified the Embassy three days prior to the attack. They also had a reporter who CLAIMED to talk to a taliban commander who said he NEVER saw the film.

Seems like the Obama administration dropped the ball for allowing a terrorist attack on THEIR watch. Blaming it on a film that has been out for months is a pathetic attempt to deflect the blame.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 197

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/18/2012 10:13:10 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

We wont be popular for stating the obvious Tweaks.

As you know Politesub we agree on Israel... at least when it comes to the settlements and peace negotiations…But please don’t tell me you agree with Tweak and her racists views on Jews and this silly bit about Zionist lobbies and AIPAC controlling US policy.

I would hate to loose the respect I have for you.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 198

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/18/2012 10:22:44 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Seems like the Obama administration dropped the ball for allowing a terrorist attack on THEIR watch

I would be willing to bet Obama and the diplomatic corps took the possibility of 9/11 attacks on our embassies very seriously...But who expected this type of attack?

Don't you think they receive threats every day let alone on 9/11? There are billions of impressionable Muslims in this world and there is no way to anticipate and prevent all possible violence.

How would you defend an embassy on foreign soil surrounded by hostiles? There is no good way except to depend on the protection of the local government. If Libyan officials knew of the planned attack in advance WHY did they not supply the proper support?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to papassion)

Post #: 199

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/18/2012 10:58:27 AM

papassion

Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
Status: offline

Did you miss the part where their PRESIDENT said his government notified our embassy three days BEFORE the attack? I don't know about you, but I would take a warning from their GOVERNMENT, very seriously. They had security guards withOUT firearms and like two ex Navy Seals? Thats taking precautions when you know the importance of the date, 9-11, and you have warnings from their GOVERNMENT?

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 200

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