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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 10:55:40 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Spaying female dogs can cause incontinence.
Approximately 20% of female dogs experience incontinence from spaying and it's usually when they're older. I've always had female dogs and not one has had this issue.

quote:

Neutering never has that effect on males.
Wrong! It happens to male dogs too:

quote:

The reason behind the incontinence in the spayed or neutered dog, is due to the lack of estrogen hormone (female) or testosterone hormone (male). In the female dog, estrogen hormone is responsible for providing tone to the bladder sphincter muscle. When spayed, this hormone is no longer being produced in the amount it was prior to the removal of the ovaries (where the estrogen hormone is produced).

Small amounts of estrogen hormone is produced by the adrenal glands (small glands that are located right next to the kidneys). Most of the time, this is enough estrogen to provide bladder sphincter tone. However, in some cases it is not. These dogs then require medications to support bladder sphincter tone.

Male dogs can develop urinary incontinence following neutering, as the testicles are removed, thus removing the source of testosterone in the system. Small amounts of testosterone continue to be produced by the male dog's adrenal glands however, and the amount of testosterone produced is usually enough to maintain bladder sphincter tone.


Personally, I'd rather spay my dog and put her on medication on the off chance that she develops incontinence than contribute to the over population of puppies that gets euthanized.

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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 11:20:32 AM   
needlesandpins


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Status: offline 		on the flip side here. my aunty was a breeder, and never had a bitch have cancer through not being spayed. i have had female dogs that i never spay, and none of mine have had cancer either. my ex MIL's last bitch was spayed (a sheltie) and was incontinent for the rest of her life, even with medication. this caused them to have to change from carpet tiles to another washable covering in the kitchen where she was kept.

i am not an irrisponsible owner just because i don't spay any of my dogs. i keep my dogs in grounds where they can't get out. my bitch is kept away from the dog when in season, and watched at all times when out. in 20 years of keeping dogs i've not had a mistaken pregnancy, or a bitch get out when in season.

now if the plan with this bitch was to churn out puppies every season then that would be irrisponsible. however, i find the santimonious behaviour in this thread a little disgusting. how dare anyone accuse the op of being irrisponsible for her choices regarding her own dog. it does not make her a bad owner at all. it just means she has to be more responsible in managing her bitch.

needles

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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 11:25:22 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

how dare anyone accuse the op of being irrisponsible for her choices regarding her own dog. it does not make her a bad owner at all. it just means she has to be more responsible in managing her bitch.


I can not speak for the others, but, my concern comes from knowing the posting history of this particular person. I stand by my calling her irresponsible. Worry about a small chance of incontinence is no reason to not spay a dog.

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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 11:29:50 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Approximately 20% of female dogs experience incontinence from spaying and it's usually when they're older. I've always had female dogs and not one has had this issue.


A 20% chance is pretty high IMO. Apparently the person who told me neutering never causes incontinence was wrong. Since it's not as well known, maybe the risk in males is much lower. I certainly hope it is.


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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 11:37:08 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressL2you

I have dogs and have never heard of such a thing. What a crock of bullsh*t, I have never heard of such rubbish. Having a female dog spayed will cause incontinence, if you believe such garbage you really need to be the one who seeks help. I have had several dogs spayed and never had one pee on any carpet. What a load.......
Let us just be truthful and say you don't want to do it, because it costs so much. Or that you think you are smarter than everyone else by claiming it is for your carpets.

That is like claiming oh if a woman has to have hysterectomy she is going to go home and pee on the carpets. You need to get a clue.............


Spay incontinence does exist and there's a 20% chance of it occurring. Glad to hear you've been lucky with your dogs, but your own good fortune is no reason for such rudeness.

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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 11:50:43 AM   
littlewonder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

how dare anyone accuse the op of being irrisponsible for her choices regarding her own dog. it does not make her a bad owner at all. it just means she has to be more responsible in managing her bitch.


I can not speak for the others, but, my concern comes from knowing the posting history of this particular person. I stand by my calling her irresponsible. Worry about a small chance of incontinence is no reason to not spay a dog.



This. Definitely this.


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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 12:07:18 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Emphasis mine on cancer prevention but it should be something the OP stands up and takes notice of.

Having had several female dogs all spayed I can say none of them developed incontinence.

I am wondering if perhaps the OP was hoping to breed the female and sell puppies?


Unfortunately, any part of the body can develop cancer. I can't remove all of her organs or my own. I'm glad your dogs weren't part of the unlucky 20%. Xena is too young to have puppies. Even when she's older, where would I keep a litter of peeing and pooping puppies in a carpeted house? A professional carpet cleaner told my father that the only way to completely remove the smell of pet urine is to replace the carpet. One of his cats peed on his basement carpet several times before he had it put to sleep and he had to replace his carpet to eliminate the smell. Right now, I have old carpet but I won't always. Even if we install laminate flooring there's still vehicle upholstery. My German Shepherd likes car rides and I like taking her places with me. Why would my father tell me pet urine ruins carpet if it wasn't true?


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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 12:11:55 PM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		How much exercise is Xena getting?

In Mom's 74 years, she's never had a dog become incontinent after being spayed nor have any of her dog owning neighbors complained of this. Her Reba had age related incontinence starting at 12 years, but one Stilbestrol every 3 days has fixed that.

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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 12:36:11 PM   
givemyall


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Status: offline 		I got a male puppy GSD when my female GSD was about 12 months old (she had been spayed and ive never had an incontinence problem with her btw), I had the male to the vets to be neutered etc and allowed them to go back together straight away, she was very playful but never caused the male any damage, maybe it might be worth a try letting them bond again without the crate, just to see how they react? I know when my female was in a restricted place she was very territorial with any dogs and would have gone mad if a dog had approached her.


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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 12:40:18 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

How much exercise is Xena getting?

In Mom's 74 years, she's never had a dog become incontinent after being spayed nor have any of her dog owning neighbors complained of this. Her Reba had age related incontinence starting at 12 years, but one Stilbestrol every 3 days has fixed that.


Between walks, the two dogs playing together, and having a back yard surrounded by a 6 ft fence to run around in, I'm fairly certain Xena gets adequate exercise. I just think 20% is too high of a chance to take plus one poster mentioned knowing someone who has a dog with spay incontinence even with medication. So apparently medication doesn't always work.

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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 1:14:14 PM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

How much exercise is Xena getting?

In Mom's 74 years, she's never had a dog become incontinent after being spayed nor have any of her dog owning neighbors complained of this. Her Reba had age related incontinence starting at 12 years, but one Stilbestrol every 3 days has fixed that.


Between walks, the two dogs playing together, and having a back yard surrounded by a 6 ft fence to run around in, I'm fairly certain Xena gets adequate exercise. I just think 20% is too high of a chance to take plus one poster mentioned knowing someone who has a dog with spay incontinence even with medication. So apparently medication doesn't always work.


I do not "hate" you.

I would caution you against being complacent with the 6 foot fence: some dogs can either jump or climb them quite easily, especially when there is a female in heat on the other side.


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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 1:42:26 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: givemyall

I got a male puppy GSD when my female GSD was about 12 months old (she had been spayed and ive never had an incontinence problem with her btw), I had the male to the vets to be neutered etc and allowed them to go back together straight away, she was very playful but never caused the male any damage, maybe it might be worth a try letting them bond again without the crate, just to see how they react? I know when my female was in a restricted place she was very territorial with any dogs and would have gone mad if a dog had approached her.


They play pretty rough. In addition to the neuter, Thor also has stitches in his paws. They often bite each others paws during play. I was planning to keep them separated until the vet removed Thor's stitches, but that's still 9 days away. Both dogs hate being kept apart, poor babies lol.


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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 1:49:33 PM   
givemyall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: givemyall

I got a male puppy GSD when my female GSD was about 12 months old (she had been spayed and ive never had an incontinence problem with her btw), I had the male to the vets to be neutered etc and allowed them to go back together straight away, she was very playful but never caused the male any damage, maybe it might be worth a try letting them bond again without the crate, just to see how they react? I know when my female was in a restricted place she was very territorial with any dogs and would have gone mad if a dog had approached her.


They play pretty rough. In addition to the neuter, Thor also has stitches in his paws. They often bite each others paws during play. I was planning to keep them separated until the vet removed Thor's stitches, but that's still 9 days away. Both dogs hate being kept apart, poor babies lol.



You obviously know your dogs better than anyone, but when one is a little under the weather mine always seemed to know and didn't play quite so hard. When my female got older she ended up having to have both ears operated on and teeth removed (all ops were done at separate times), I still let them both stay together and there was never an accident.
I hope your dog recovers fast and they can be back together again soon :)

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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 4:55:17 PM   
MissKittyDeVine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

One of his cats peed on his basement carpet several times before he had it put to sleep and he had to replace his carpet to eliminate the smell.


I hope it is simply that this sentence reads wrongly, and that your father didn´t have the cat PTS because it peed on the carpet. Cats do this either because of illness, or because of behavioural issues caused by something the OWNER has done.

Regarding neutering animals, as someone who volunteers in rescues I say NEUTER, NEUTER, NEUTER. Dogs can escape, and the last thing rescues need is yet another litter of unwanted puppies to find homes for.

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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 5:49:51 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		I'm sure the cat was checked for possible health causes. His cats are treated very well. They're spoiled. There's no way he did anything to cause it. He tried repeatedly to correct the behavior but was unsuccessful. The cat couldn't live outside with no front claws. In the end, yes he did have the cat put to sleep for that reason. If he gave the cat away it would've ruined someone else's carpet.

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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 6:17:31 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

how dare anyone accuse the op of being irrisponsible for her choices regarding her own dog. it does not make her a bad owner at all. it just means she has to be more responsible in managing her bitch.


I can not speak for the others, but, my concern comes from knowing the posting history of this particular person. I stand by my calling her irresponsible. Worry about a small chance of incontinence is no reason to not spay a dog.



This. Definitely this.



Ditto.

I've had female dogs most of my entire life. Three here at the moment. One a purebred GSD that would have earned my a fat wad of sweaty money had I bred her to a quality male. I don't believe in doing so. She was neutered as soon as my vet felt she was ready. As were the other two. I do have a dog that is incontinent and has always been. It began prior to her spaying and happens only when she sleeps. She has a cute little pair of pants that fits a feminine hygiene pad inside. It's not a hassle to slip them on before bed and off when we get up. I prefer to avoid medication when at all possible.

In all of my 50 years, and more female dogs than I care to count, this small dog is the only one that's had the problem. IF.... I was so concerned about a small chance of such an easy to handle problem, I would simply not have a female dog.

I am a huge advocate of spaying and neutering and aside from the very rare instances when an animal actually should reproduce, I absolutely do feel that not spaying and neutering is utterly and completely irresponsible. Period.

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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 6:33:43 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


I am a huge advocate of spaying and neutering and aside from the very rare instances when an animal actually should reproduce, I absolutely do feel that not spaying and neutering is utterly and completely irresponsible. Period.

This. A million times over. SO MANY dogs and cats are put down each year due to overcrowded shelters. I would much rather risk incontinence than risk my dog getting pregnant and contributing to the over population issue. This is why I advocate adopting from a shelter rather than buying from a breeder, as well. Spay your dog.

As for putting down a cat for peeing on the carpet - Cats pee outside the box if there are medical issues or if it is stressed. Unfortunately, vet bills are expensive and many folks would rather choose death than medical bills.

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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 6:51:55 PM   
Winterapple


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I've never had an animal become incontinent
from being spayed or neutered and I've
had a lot of animals in my life.
And dealing with a bitch in heat is a
pain in the ass. I know of to many
litters of puppies and kittens that
resulted from somehow, some way
a make got to them and impregnated
them.

Cats don't always go in the litter box
that's just a fact. If a person has that
expectation and are that worried about
the carpet they shouldn't get cats or
any pet other than maybe a goldfish.

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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 7:42:43 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		My father and stepmother baby their 2 cats, but the one thing they won't tolerate is a habit of peeing on the carpet. Probably because their house is kept immaculate and is nice enough to be featured in one of those home magazines.


< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 9/16/2012 7:45:31 PM >

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RE: My female German Shepherd Xena is acting weird. - 9/16/2012 8:22:58 PM   
kitkat105


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Spaying female dogs can cause incontinence. Neutering never has that effect on males. We have carpet. I'd rather Xena wear diapers twice a year when she's in heat than all the time. Therefore, we decided to neuter Thor and leave Xena intact.


Not spaying can also lead to a whole host of health problems........and pregnancy. Nice job being an irresponsible pet owner.


I could't count the amount of female dogs who I have been exposed to, spayed, and magically manage to have bladder control. This is an 'old wives tale'.

Don't ask for advice when she is diagnosed with uterine cancer from going into heat multiple times without being bred.

< Message edited by kitkat105 -- 9/16/2012 8:23:27 PM >

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