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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/16/2012 9:48:28 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Implied is that the US will not become involved in another war via Obama. Such implication is unwarranted as Obama has continued the middle east blunderings of Bush the Younger.


To a certain degree, Obama has no choice but to continue wars started before he was elected.. you cant just pull everyone out in one day, but those wars, no matter how long they do go on, will end up being pointless like that other war in Vietnam was.. Its a no win situation for Obama, imo..

I think one big difference with Obama is he thinks about "war" differently that previous Presidents did (& imo how Romney and his party does).. imo, Obama would send in Seal teams and small strike forces and support locals trying to overthrow their govt rather than get into a full-on invasion with tens of thousands of troops, tanks and the big US war machine.. Imo, good accurate intel is the key (& Obama's key) to keeping "war" contained, if you know who and where the important targets are, what they are doing, etc, then you can send in the small strike team to cripple them without actually starting a "war" in the conventional sense/way.. Imo, "war" is very different today than it was in Bush's day.. I wonder had Bush or McCain been elected instead of Obama, how many old style wars they would have started in the last 4 years..

jmo, of course..

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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 5:34:22 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Tell you what, Mike. Why don't you Google up the President's speech at West Point a couple years back, and give that a viewing. Don't just read the text. Take the time to watch. His "phone it in," bored delivery tells a story of President Obama as CIC, even better than his going to that venue, and never once using the word, "victory," when telling our nation's finest he was going to just keep sending them into a futile meatgrinder.

Maybe too, reflect a little on how the USA turned Libya into the fine mess it is today, strictly on our President's say-so. Reflect further on how it was this present administration which invented and applied the remote control exemption to the War Powers Act.

When the al Qaida flag has flown over several of our embassies in region over the last week, do you really think this is a good time to be settling yourself in for a ride on Obama's foreign policy coattails?




Hold sec, bubba. Are you saying that libya was better while it was being run by a genocidal murdering dictator?.................................But this time there are actual demonstrations by freed people thanking the US for their involvement. Kinda the opposite of this guy:


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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 7:37:38 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		For those thinking of voting for either Obama or Romney - is either one of them going to actually fix anything?

I doubt few, if any, will spend the time watching that presentation.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 7:45:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Yeah, starts out with tea party asswipe.........nah, not worth the total waste of my life.


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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 8:06:05 AM   
SlipSlidingAway


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Status: offline 		I don't think anybody is going to fix anything.   And, I think we are going to war with Iran, regardless of who gets elected.  NOBODY thinks Iran having the bomb is a good idea.   Eventually push WILL come to shove, no matter who the president is.

The economy is going to stay broken.  It's a matter of where you fall financially as to which candidate will make your portion of the pie better or worse off.  Fixing the deficit, if it's done, will be a slight of hand- a shell trick, if you will.  The needs will still be there, and we are still going to be paying for the same exact things, whether it's a tax, an elimination of deductions, or paying for things directly out of our pockets.   With Obama we have some idea of how that's all going to go down.  Now, Romney claims he's going to finally give some details, too.  So, we shall say what he has to say...

Healthcare will likely remain broken under either candidate, too.  As Americans, we want everything fixed, but we are not willing to let it hurt a little to get it fixed.  Nobody is going to be given the green light to revamp the system from the bottom up.  So, it's like plugging holes in a dam when the thing actually needs to be replaced.  It's going to fail, it's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when".

Romney has money skills, no doubt about it.  But, the citizens are NOT his employees.  And, even if they were, how many want to be treated as expendable as the employees of the companies he acquired?  His bottom line has always been HIS bank account.  And, I'm just not seeing him ever being all that concerned about most of the people he'd be serving.    Take into account that as much as he'd like this election to JUST be about the economy, nothing could be further from the truth.  As the leader of one of the most powerful countries in the world, he'd have a LOT more on his plate, things I don't think he has any clue about.

...at the same time?  Obama had 4 years.  He did not manage to do the things he claimed he would.  Then again, I don't know if anyone could have.

And that's the long and the short of it.  The candidates can talk and debate and make promises.  But, can either of them actually FIX anything?   I don't have confidence in either of them.  So, in essence, I am voting for what I consider the lesser of two evils.  I'm not thrilled about that, but what other choice do I really have?

Things are not looking good for America- no matter who the next POTUS is.

< Message edited by SlipSlidingAway -- 9/17/2012 8:07:04 AM >

_____________________________

"...ethical behavior should be based...on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. " —Albert Einstein

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 8:35:04 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway
I am voting for what I consider the lesser of two evils.  I'm not thrilled about that, but what other choice do I really have?

Things are not looking good for America- no matter who the next POTUS is.

Imo,.. American voters will still be saying this very same thing 20 or 30 years from now.. The US is on the downward slope.. it's not gonna be pretty.. The US needs another true revolution but not that wussy OWS crap.. Where is OWS now? it was just another flash in the pan.. the US needs a new political system.. the 2 party system just doesnt work & hasnt for some time.. it wont happen tho cuz Americans have turned control (in the name of "security") over to those few in power & they arent gonna give it up.. They are just gonna keep screwing ya.. and voters will just keep taking it.. and vote for the lesser of two evils.. Just sayin'..

So imo.. since you asked.. the choices you have are..
a) keep bending over and takin' it.. election after election..
b) a true revolt and overthrow of the govt & political system (just like those 3rd world countries do it)
c) find another country that better fits you and leave this broken one behind.. & if you have the balls, getting citizenship elsewhere and giving up US citizenship
d) find a way to make gobs of money and join the forces of evil by becoming one of the 1%..
I think that pretty much covers your "choices"..

_____________________________

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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 9:55:10 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		For all the problems. We still are the most Dominant country in the world and will stay that way. What case can you make for any other country coming to lead?

China - Is a ticking bomb ready to explode at most any time.
Russia - Same as China
Eurozone - Doubt it
Rest of the world -----Who could manage it.

Naw, I don't think so. And, I think the rest of the world agrees. Why else would people put their money on us, day in and day out. The only way this could ever change is if we don't stop hating each other and let our small differences over-run our greater similarities.

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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 10:15:35 AM   
FMRFGOPGAL


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

When the al Qaida flag has flown over several of our embassies in region over the last week, do you really think this is a good time to be settling yourself in for a ride on Obama's foreign policy coattails?


Are you asserting that the Embassy staff or the state department in general either looked the other way, or was somehow involved in the raising of your so-called Al Qaeda (<-correct sp) flag on the embassy's flagpole?
  Perhaps it's just me (Having accounts from a wide variety of credible sources), but I feel you might be putting a little spandex to the truth here? I mean, your implied account is about as unbiased  and accurate as my making the claim that this picture is of the roof of the limo at one of the Romney son's weddings:
http://www.collarme.com/photos/222089p06.jpg

< Message edited by FMRFGOPGAL -- 9/17/2012 10:17:13 AM >

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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 10:18:15 AM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Nobody is voting for Romney. They're either voting for Obama or against him. Romney himself hardly figures in the equation. The only positive reason I've heard for voting for him is his business skills, and anyone citing them precedes that with saying how poor Obama's economy is.

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 10:36:08 AM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Have previously seen the speech and read the text...so there is no need...and no that doesn't answer the question of why do you not fear what a President Romney would do vis a vis foreign policy.

Rich let me assure you I am well aware of Obama's foreign policy,do I think he has been perfect? of course not,do I agree with the big picture direction our policies are taking under President Obama ?
Yes I do...and will gladly cast another vote for him,what I want to know is how can anyone in good conscious vote for a man who says he will fix the economy simultaneously promising a much more aggressive use of American forces in the ME in generally and Iran specifically....all the while promising more tax cuts for the rich.
I thought the deficit was issue n
#1....how do conservatives look in the mirror and vote for this empty suit ?

If you are as well aware of Obama's foreign policy as you claim to be then you are just as well aware that his foreign policy has been tried several times before and failed every time. You agree with what's happening throughout the Middle-East as a result of Obama's foreign policy? What I want to know is how can anyone cast another vote for the someone who told them last time that if he hadn't fixed the economy after 3 years then he'd be a one-term president? Moreover, what I want to know is how could anyone vote for someone who admitted they wouldn't be where they were [running for president] but for everything America was founded upon and has stood for then proclaimed that he intended to fundamentally transform America.

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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 10:38:36 AM   
tj444


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Status: offline 		we will see..

.. if people were so gung ho on the US then gold would not have had the run its had.. and the Canadian $ wouldnt be at par with the US dollar (which i have never seen happen in my lifetime before)..

It wont happen overnight tho.. but over the next few decades, other countries will become more important and powerful and the US influence & standing will lessen (as it slowly has been).. of course few people look that far ahead..

the US has internal battles.. the debt keeps piling up with no end in sight.. the Social Security uncertainty.. the eventual outcome of national health care (just exactly what the costs will be, etc).. the elite 1% will still own the assets and businesses and have the control, regardless of who you vote for.. the 1% are not stupid, they have diversified their holdings to other assets and businesses in other countries.. We will see how all this eventually plays out.. especially that whole debt thing.. each President will try to push that down the line but at some point the shite will hit the fan.. and that's not gonna be pretty..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 11:02:03 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway
I am voting for what I consider the lesser of two evils.  I'm not thrilled about that, but what other choice do I really have?
Things are not looking good for America- no matter who the next POTUS is.

Imo,.. American voters will still be saying this very same thing 20 or 30 years from now.. The US is on the downward slope.. it's not gonna be pretty.. The US needs another true revolution but not that wussy OWS crap.. Where is OWS now? it was just another flash in the pan.. the US needs a new political system.. the 2 party system just doesnt work & hasnt for some time.. it wont happen tho cuz Americans have turned control (in the name of "security") over to those few in power & they arent gonna give it up.. They are just gonna keep screwing ya.. and voters will just keep taking it.. and vote for the lesser of two evils.. Just sayin'..


I disagree with your take that the 2 party system "just doesn't work." The problem isn't necessarily the system, but the parties within that system. The Democrats are Hellbent on redistributing wealth (aka rewarding lack of success by penalizing success) while the Republicans are all about reducing the role of the Federal Government and reducing the impact, financially, of a massive government; well, until they get into power.

Another huge problem is the voters. As a people, we aren't well informed. We don't pay as much attention to what's going on in the political world. We listen to the talking heads and cast our votes accordingly. Few take the time to think on the actual issues and consider their own position, let alone a candidate's position. We aren't intellectually involved in our politicians. If We the People got involved, researched into who is doing what, why, and for how long, and then made certain that our politicians knew we knew, things would most likely be different.

We would elect people who are more likely to represent us, and the people we elect would be more likely to say what they are going to do, and then do what they said.

Rev. Peter Marshall (US Senate Chaplain) put it best in an opening prayer in front of the Senate: "...unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything."

My friends, foes, debate opposites, as a people, we stand for little, if anything. Until that changes, our 2-party system is going to continue to operate like shit and you and I are going to continue to be pissed off about it.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tj444)
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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 11:07:05 AM   
papassion


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I don't want war. But we have history to show what happens when appeasment to avoid war is chosen. (Chamberlain and Hitler) We also have hindsight to show what happens when Obama Pulled out troops, or gives dates when he will pull out troops, to get political points. Before any objective is accomplished. The radicals are already gearing up and the years, lives and money we put in are all going to be for naught.

I think by now, everyone can see with their own eyes, there are more than a "few" radical Muslims. They can't convert us and its obvious they arn't interested in changing their hard line. Whoever gets elected is going to have a tough job.

I'm voting for Romney. He knows how to bankrupt those asses so they don't have any money to fight a war.

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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 11:09:43 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		yeah, well we are not in any sort of appeasment situation, other than the servile corporate capitulators appeasement programs.

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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 11:11:51 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

I don't want war. But we have history to show what happens when appeasment to avoid war is chosen.

I'm voting for Romney. He knows how to bankrupt those asses so they don't have any money to fight a war.


I don't like either Obama or Romney, but I'd say Romney would actually fight a war versus Obama who'd be looking to sink the putt in three.


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 11:13:29 AM   
SlipSlidingAway


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Status: offline 		There are also more than just a few "radical Christians" and a few "radical Jews".  They are still not the majority of any of those groups, of course, as in most things, the squeaky wheel is the one that get the attention.  It has to...

The problem with voting for Romney to bankrupt the nations of which you speak is that he will not own those nations.  Sanctions only go so far, and they need to be unilateral.  Taking into account the fact that we are talking oil rich nations who have a supply to expensive natural resources, Romney (and the USA) can't go it alone.

If Romney can't even get through an Olympic interview with our closest ally without being offensive, what makes you think his foreign policy is going to garner the type of support needed to put a diplomatic, instead of military, end to things with Iran?


_____________________________

"...ethical behavior should be based...on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. " —Albert Einstein

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RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 11:19:02 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I disagree with your take that the 2 party system "just doesn't work." The problem isn't necessarily the system, but the parties within that system. The Democrats are Hellbent on redistributing wealth (aka rewarding lack of success by penalizing success) while the Republicans are all about reducing the role of the Federal Government and reducing the impact, financially, of a massive government; well, until they get into power.

Another huge problem is the voters. As a people, we aren't well informed. We don't pay as much attention to what's going on in the political world. We listen to the talking heads and cast our votes accordingly. Few take the time to think on the actual issues and consider their own position, let alone a candidate's position. We aren't intellectually involved in our politicians. If We the People got involved, researched into who is doing what, why, and for how long, and then made certain that our politicians knew we knew, things would most likely be different.

We would elect people who are more likely to represent us, and the people we elect would be more likely to say what they are going to do, and then do what they said.

Rev. Peter Marshall (US Senate Chaplain) put it best in an opening prayer in front of the Senate: "...unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything."

My friends, foes, debate opposites, as a people, we stand for little, if anything. Until that changes, our 2-party system is going to continue to operate like shit and you and I are going to continue to be pissed off about it.

well... then let me rephrase that.. the 2 party system doesnt work for the good of the majority of Americans.. it works perty good for the 1%ers tho..

Imo, even if voters are poorly informed, that is irrelevant.. It is simply too easy for big business & the 1% to control whichever one is elected.. as they have done and will continue to do.. your system is set up so that only the rich can play (many of those elected are 1%ers, after all, who else can afford the cost of running for office?)

If you could magically replace those 2 parties with two new parties.. you would end up in the exact same place you are now, with the 1% controlling both parties (regardless of what they claim) all over again.. imo..

a choice between worse and worser isnt really a choice, imo.. but carry on.. cuz it wont change cuz people dont have the will to change it, that takes more effort than most people can muster.. so i guess ya'll will get the govt you deserve, as the saying goes..



eta- I am not pissed off with the system, its your system not mine.. I have my plan in motion..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 9/17/2012 11:24:49 AM >

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 11:38:01 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

we will see..

.. if people were so gung ho on the US then gold would not have had the run its had.. and the Canadian $ wouldnt be at par with the US dollar (which i have never seen happen in my lifetime before)..

It wont happen overnight tho.. but over the next few decades, other countries will become more important and powerful and the US influence & standing will lessen (as it slowly has been).. of course few people look that far ahead..

the US has internal battles.. the debt keeps piling up with no end in sight.. the Social Security uncertainty.. the eventual outcome of national health care (just exactly what the costs will be, etc).. the elite 1% will still own the assets and businesses and have the control, regardless of who you vote for.. the 1% are not stupid, they have diversified their holdings to other assets and businesses in other countries.. We will see how all this eventually plays out.. especially that whole debt thing.. each President will try to push that down the line but at some point the shite will hit the fan.. and that's not gonna be pretty..


Just be interested in knowing in what scenario that would possibly happen? Is there another country on earth at this time that has the ability to compete with the US? The answer is an emphatic no. I would venture to guess that most of the Gold Futures are bought and sold here in the US. Not somewhere else. Our bonds are being snapped up each and every day. Why? Cause there is total confidence in our ability to manage the world.

You are here each day and hear our internal squabbles. Do you imagine there are no other squabbles in other parts of the world? Even in Canada you've a Province that once again has a Gov't that has as a goal to break up Canada itself.

At the end of the day the world needs our leadership and ability to set thing right. It doesn't always work out perfectly. However, just imagine any of the worlds' crisises being dominanted by a Russian Gov't or the PRC......The outcomes would be far uglier.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 3:23:15 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
Just be interested in knowing in what scenario that would possibly happen? Is there another country on earth at this time that has the ability to compete with the US? The answer is an emphatic no. I would venture to guess that most of the Gold Futures are bought and sold here in the US. Not somewhere else. Our bonds are being snapped up each and every day. Why? Cause there is total confidence in our ability to manage the world.

You are here each day and hear our internal squabbles. Do you imagine there are no other squabbles in other parts of the world? Even in Canada you've a Province that once again has a Gov't that has as a goal to break up Canada itself.

At the end of the day the world needs our leadership and ability to set thing right. It doesn't always work out perfectly. However, just imagine any of the worlds' crisises being dominanted by a Russian Gov't or the PRC......The outcomes would be far uglier.

Lets see.. I never said any other country had the ability to compete with the US at this time.. I did say it will take a few decades for the errosion to happen... but imo it will happen.. Your ability to manage the world has done a bang up job.. creating the worst economic disaster in recent history, both around the world and in the US.. and its far from over yet.. that US debt bill will have to be paid at some point..

I never said there werent squabbles elsewhere in the world but these forums do tend to focus almost entirely on the US (since most posters are Americans, not many look past the border).. You like to go on about Quebec dont you? Quebec is only one part of Canada and no one takes that seriously, just cuz they stomp their feet every so often doesnt mean Canada will break up.. its just their way of getting concessions, etc.. they are the spoilt child of Canada and thats it.. yeah,.. they pout a little and hold their breath but they aint goin no where.. the bottom line is that they cant afford to.. btw, there is a Western Canada Separation movement too, but that isnt taken seriously either..

Imo, if China loosened its restrictions a bit, you would see a lot more money and investment flowing there.. thats all they have to do.. that would be a game changer, imo.. China recently took over a couple of US banks.. your US govt opened the door and let 'em walk right in, ya know, cuz China holds a lot of that US debt.. I wonder how long it will be before they are dictating to the Prez just like the 1% do now..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: A question for those thinking of voting for Romney - 9/17/2012 5:11:18 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm wondering if those who think(that in and of itself is questionable)Romney is the answer are prepared to see the United States involved in another war ?
Listening to Romney/Ryan pontificate on Iran and their attempts to arm themselves with a nuke,a voter must be given some pause,must realize that a vote for Romney is a vote for war.
And this would be a war decided by Israel,for it seems that American foreign policy would be decided in Jerusalem rather than in Washington,are American voters prepared for such an eventuality ?
Romney is supposed to be the answer to America's economic issues....how would that work against a backdrop of another extended war ?


Why is Romney a vote for war?

(Please explain that).

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 40
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