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RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/18/2012 5:55:53 AM   
fucktoyprincess


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FR

Personally, I find it very insulting - because it is suggesting to entire religions that their path is wrong, and I don't feel that is a determination for other people to make. Faith is, and ought to be, a private decision.

How would people feel if I, as an atheist, went around disavowing people's faith in their religion posthumously? Well, what the Mormons are doing is exactly that. When one gets baptized you are renouncing your original faith. What gives the Mormons the right to do this? It is just plain wrong on so many levels. It is reminiscent of the Spanish Inquisition, or the Mughal invasions in India, where entire groups of people were forced to convert to another religion. It's just that rather than making a point of doing it while the person is alive, they are sneaking around and doing it behind people's backs. It comes from a belief that their way is the ONLY way to salvation. I find these posthumous baptisms to be an insidious practice - and I am not even a person of faith.

While I have chosen not to have religion be part of my life, other people's choices are their own. People who have lived their lives with their own belief system do not need someone coming around after the fact to "save their souls". Talk about insulting people's faiths, and insulting people's families. The utter arrogance of it.

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RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/18/2012 6:03:18 AM   
mnottertail


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Baptism for the dead is practiced so that you may reach the lowest rung in Moron heaven.

Yeah, it is despicable.

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RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/18/2012 6:27:54 AM   
Marc2b


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Not a problem... just do an un-babtism.

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RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/18/2012 6:37:12 AM   
subspaceseven


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I agree

If I wanted to convert to their religion , I would have when I was alive...I choose not to, what right do they have to perform this ritual without the consent of me or my family...

I find it interesting how in 2004 religion was under attack, or more clearly Obamas association with Rev Wright, and his faith is constantly questioned, but Romeny refused to address questions about his chosen religion and feels it should be off limits..for him,...not for Obama's religion

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RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/18/2012 6:42:49 AM   
kalikshama


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Bill Maher does an un-baptism of the dead

Dearly beloved, we are gathered in the presence of math, gravity, evolution and electricity...to rescue him from the Planet Kolob so he may spend eternity with the type of free thinkers he chose to hang out with on Earth.

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RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/18/2012 6:44:48 AM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven

I agree

If I wanted to convert to their religion , I would have when I was alive...I choose not to, what right do they have to perform this ritual without the consent of me or my family...

I find it interesting how in 2004 religion was under attack, or more clearly Obamas association with Rev Wright, and his faith is constantly questioned, but Romeny refused to address questions about his chosen religion and feels it should be off limits..for him,...not for Obama's religion


O, the proselytizers - you can't escape them even after you die!




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RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/18/2012 4:38:31 PM   
maybemaybenot


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I brought this subject up with a few of my co workers today < nurses >. We are one Protestant < me > , two Catholics and one Jew. All three of the others think similarly to me, acknowledging others may feel differently.

The interesting part of the conversation is where it led. We are all in the age group of 51-63 and have been nurses for 30+ years. We got to talking about how we were taught in Nursing School, that we were to Baptize stillborns and infants near death/expected to die. This practice, as I learned it in a State Nursing School, was to be done with the parents consent or if you knew the parents were of the Christian faith and absent/died in child birth/unable to speak. Certainly not to be done to other faiths. The Jewish nurse was not obligated to do this, but if she so desired she could. That is what was taught in the late 60's and seventies. I am not sure it is still taught today, but I suspect it is.

One of the Catholic co workers, who went to a Catholic Hospital School of Nursing told us that she was taught to baptize every newborn/infant/child, in danger of dying, who was not previously Baptized, even against the wishes of the parent. I had never heard of this and she assured me it was so and Googled an article from a Catholic website that talks about Nurses Baptizing babies. It is definately an interesting read and parrallels the Mormons Baptizing after death, on a smaller scale. Similar but different, so to speak.

From the website, it appears the Catholic Church no longer encourages the Baptism of infants at risk against the parents wishes, but there certainly is some pretty strong language on Baptizing aborted babies.

I'll C&P a few excerps and provide the link below for anyone interested

" According to the Church’s law, babies in danger of death may be baptized even against non-Catholic parents’ wishes. However, both prudence and respect for the parents’ role argue against baptizing babies contrary to the expressed wishes of parents. If the parents’ wishes cannot be ascertained, one should proceed on a reasonable presumption regarding them or, if doubt remains and death is imminent, one should baptize the baby."

" The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has reiterated the traditional doctrine about infant baptism in the face of theological speculation to the contrary.9 Even those who think that such speculation is plausible should not put it into practice—the baby’s eternal welfare may be at stake, and baptizing him or her is very easy. Therefore, to withhold baptism would be inexcusable; it would be like withholding a cheap and readily available drug that surely would cause no harm and might be absolutely essential to prevent death."

Re: parents with differing wishes regarding Baptism:

"If the two should disagree, accept as authoritative the judgment of the one who wishes the baby baptized, since that judgment is objectively correct."

" What about deliberately aborted babies who certainly are or may be alive but are sure to die soon? They have been abandoned by their parents and left to die. Like other abandoned children, they need and deserve adoption by anyone willing to fulfill, insofar as possible, parental duties toward them. Therefore, you should fulfill the urgent parental duty of providing for their salvation by baptizing them (see CIC, cc. 867, §2; 870; 871)."

http://www.twotlj.org/G-3-4.html


.

< Message edited by maybemaybenot -- 9/18/2012 4:40:00 PM >


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RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/18/2012 4:45:32 PM   
tazzygirl


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I graduated 20 years ago.... and we were never taught to baptize newborns. In fact, all the newborn nurseries I have ever worked in had no such requirement. Then again, I didnt work in religious based hospitals.

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RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/18/2012 5:05:44 PM   
maybemaybenot


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Yep, I'm probably dating myself. lol. I did not go to a religious based Nursing School either, I went to a State Hospital School of Nsg. I don't rememeber when the State Boards changed.. but when I took them the tests were in sections. IE:Med Surg, PSych, Maternity etc. I took my state boards in 1977 and their was a question in the Maturnity section about Baptizing stillborns/near death babies. While I never worked in maturnity < yuck !!! > it was very common pratice. And by that current article from the website I see it is still taught, perhaps only in religious schools and not as a part of a public ciriculem.
I guess I am officialy one of those " old nurses " I used to make fun of when I was young and fresh out of school.

edited to add: it wasn't a requirement of the hospital nursery, it was taught in Nursing School and accepted practice. I'm not aware of any stipulations by the hospitals I worked in, but as I said I did not work maturnity.

< Message edited by maybemaybenot -- 9/18/2012 5:07:21 PM >


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Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/18/2012 5:16:31 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Really ? How are you going to be offended post death ?
How do you intend to make your objections known ?



Trust me.... if there is a way... I will come back and haunt them... and maybe even you.

Well I am.once again,searching for a Domme.
Up to now I had restricted my search to the living.......

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RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/19/2012 12:14:46 AM   
kitkat105


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Well, it is Mormon policy to do so. It is called proxy baptism for the dead. In 1995 they agreed to stop baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims, but otherwise, they do baptize people regardless of their original religion.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/16/explainer-how-and-why-do-mormons-baptize-the-dead/

I look forward to my posthumous Mormon baptism. After all it appears there is nothing I can do to stop it.....


I find it creepy and disrespectful. But this is how they run the largest bank of genealogy information. Gaining people's family trees, 1 baptism at a time...


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RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/19/2012 4:52:58 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

ABC News has confirmed reports that Mormons posthumously baptized President Obama's mother five months before the election.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints confirmed Tuesday afternoon that someone improperly, posthumously baptized the late mother of President Obama into the Mormon faith.

Last June 4 -- the day after then-Sen. Obama secured enough delegates to win the Democratic presidential nominee -- someone had the president's mother Stanley Ann Dunham, who died in 1995 of cancer, baptized.

On June 11, she received the endowment.

The baptism was first reported by AMERICAblog's John Aravosis, who found an ordinance record on the Mormon genealogical Web site, FamilySearch.org.

Mormon Church spokeswoman Kim Farah said that "the offering of baptism to our deceased ancestors is a sacred practice to us and it is counter to Church policy for a Church member to submit names for baptism for persons to whom they are not related. The Church is looking into the circumstances of how this happened and does not yet have all the facts. However, this is a serious matter and we are treating it as such."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/mormons-baptized-obamas-m_n_197707.html

Oh fucking enough already.

They want me to believe people saw that name submitted and NO ONE questioned it?


Not entirely sure what your point in all this is but, Mormons do this kind of thing as a general practice.

They actually believe that all people on Earth deserve baptism and (according to the Bible) that (baptism, ergo, belief in Jesus) is the only way to Heaven.

I personally believe all people can be wealthy if they choose to be....but I don't send them a check to cause it to happen.

Kinda makes Mormon's a smidge higher on the food chain than me as I see it.

Doesn't make 'em sick or fucked up.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 9/19/2012 4:54:35 PM >

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RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/19/2012 4:56:57 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

ABC News has confirmed reports that Mormons posthumously baptized President Obama's mother five months before the election.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints confirmed Tuesday afternoon that someone improperly, posthumously baptized the late mother of President Obama into the Mormon faith.

Last June 4 -- the day after then-Sen. Obama secured enough delegates to win the Democratic presidential nominee -- someone had the president's mother Stanley Ann Dunham, who died in 1995 of cancer, baptized.

On June 11, she received the endowment.

The baptism was first reported by AMERICAblog's John Aravosis, who found an ordinance record on the Mormon genealogical Web site, FamilySearch.org.

Mormon Church spokeswoman Kim Farah said that "the offering of baptism to our deceased ancestors is a sacred practice to us and it is counter to Church policy for a Church member to submit names for baptism for persons to whom they are not related. The Church is looking into the circumstances of how this happened and does not yet have all the facts. However, this is a serious matter and we are treating it as such."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/mormons-baptized-obamas-m_n_197707.html

Oh fucking enough already.

They want me to believe people saw that name submitted and NO ONE questioned it?


Not entirely sure what your point in all this is but, Mormons do this kind of thing as a general practice.

They actually believe that all people on Earth deserve baptism and (according to the Bible) that (baptism, ergo, belief in Jesus) is the only way to Heaven.

I personally believe all people can be wealthy if they choose to be....but I don't send them a check to cause it to happen.

Kinda makes Mormon's a smidge higher on the food chain than me as I see it.

Doesn't make 'em sick or fucked up.

The LDS Church promised to stop doing this when they got caught baptizing holocaust victims. The fact that they lied and have been caught over and over again is a big deal.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/19/2012 5:11:43 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Not entirely sure what your point in all this is but, Mormons do this kind of thing as a general practice.

They actually believe that all people on Earth deserve baptism and (according to the Bible) that (baptism, ergo, belief in Jesus) is the only way to Heaven.

I personally believe all people can be wealthy if they choose to be....but I don't send them a check to cause it to happen.

Kinda makes Mormon's a smidge higher on the food chain than me as I see it.

Doesn't make 'em sick or fucked up.



What happened to religious freedom?

Or are you ok with any group deciding religious choice?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/19/2012 5:53:01 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

ABC News has confirmed reports that Mormons posthumously baptized President Obama's mother five months before the election.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints confirmed Tuesday afternoon that someone improperly, posthumously baptized the late mother of President Obama into the Mormon faith.

Last June 4 -- the day after then-Sen. Obama secured enough delegates to win the Democratic presidential nominee -- someone had the president's mother Stanley Ann Dunham, who died in 1995 of cancer, baptized.

On June 11, she received the endowment.

The baptism was first reported by AMERICAblog's John Aravosis, who found an ordinance record on the Mormon genealogical Web site, FamilySearch.org.

Mormon Church spokeswoman Kim Farah said that "the offering of baptism to our deceased ancestors is a sacred practice to us and it is counter to Church policy for a Church member to submit names for baptism for persons to whom they are not related. The Church is looking into the circumstances of how this happened and does not yet have all the facts. However, this is a serious matter and we are treating it as such."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/mormons-baptized-obamas-m_n_197707.html

Oh fucking enough already.

They want me to believe people saw that name submitted and NO ONE questioned it?


Not entirely sure what your point in all this is but, Mormons do this kind of thing as a general practice.

They actually believe that all people on Earth deserve baptism and (according to the Bible) that (baptism, ergo, belief in Jesus) is the only way to Heaven.

I personally believe all people can be wealthy if they choose to be....but I don't send them a check to cause it to happen.

Kinda makes Mormon's a smidge higher on the food chain than me as I see it.

Doesn't make 'em sick or fucked up.

The LDS Church promised to stop doing this when they got caught baptizing holocaust victims. The fact that they lied and have been caught over and over again is a big deal.


Based on the above posts....kinda looks like they didn't (Dom) Ken.

Ergo, they're following their beliefs, regardless of "mans laws".

I can (and do) respect that.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 9/19/2012 6:02:52 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/19/2012 5:54:19 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Not entirely sure what your point in all this is but, Mormons do this kind of thing as a general practice.

They actually believe that all people on Earth deserve baptism and (according to the Bible) that (baptism, ergo, belief in Jesus) is the only way to Heaven.

I personally believe all people can be wealthy if they choose to be....but I don't send them a check to cause it to happen.

Kinda makes Mormon's a smidge higher on the food chain than me as I see it.

Doesn't make 'em sick or fucked up.



What happened to religious freedom?

Or are you ok with any group deciding religious choice?


Can't he'p you on that one...not sure what happened to religious freedom....haven't been paying all that much attention to the issue....last I checked...we still have it (religious freedom)...was there something striking on the news that I missed?...at least according to the laws of this country it doesn't appear they crossed the line either...just following their own doctrine....kinda like every other church on Earth seems to do.

As far as I can tell...they're expressing their "religious choice" (it would seem, quite freely, and with no harm intended).

(Seems to work for them....about as well as it does for the Catholics, Jews and others).

None of my goddamn business as far as I can tell.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 9/19/2012 6:00:37 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/19/2012 6:00:23 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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Some religions believe in adults marrying children as well. We dont allow that "religious freedom" either.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/19/2012 6:05:45 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Some religions believe in adults marrying children as well. We dont allow that "religious freedom" either.



Well, that would of course be, where federal and state laws come in.

I'm not aware of any federal or state laws that keep Mormons (or anyone else for that matter) from baptizing the dead.

You let me know when that occurs and I think you'll have something rather incendiary to talk about.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/19/2012 7:44:32 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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LOL

As you should be aware, many things become illegal because people make them illegal. There was a time in this country when marrying a 13 year old was perfectly legal.

But thats ok. Lets not discuss things. You wait for other people to do things. You wait for the laws to change.

May want to brush up on Westboro while you are at it. Heard some changes were made in California recently.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Posthumous baptism - 9/19/2012 10:30:00 PM   
FMRFGOPGAL


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The Whole SoulWash with Free Mormonize is just plain cultish. Period.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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