RE: Romney.... product of welfare state

RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (Full Version)

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Arturas -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 1:22:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Link one... Families in generational poverty form their own culture No mention of welfare. Link 2... try something with better information.. and more recent. Link 3... Generational poverty does not automatically equate to generational welfare. Link 4... again.... a 20 year old report Dude... a report from the UK as proof of generational welfare in the US? According to statistics, 80% of AFDC recipients are off by the 5 year mark. http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/ Only 4.1% of the population is on welfare of some sort. Total number of American’s on welfare 15,000,000 Percent of the US population on welfare 4.1 % Curious. How does the count of those on Welfare remain low when unemployment is so much higher in a time of great recession? One wonders for a moment and then realizes we are discussing numbers coming from the Obama Administration... ...they did not include... a 4.5 million increase on the "disability" role since Obama came to power. There are millions more taken care of in "stimulus grants" using taxpayer and money borrowed from China sent to states for such purposes. Those who would be on welfare are actually on "long term unemployment" and then when that runs out a lot have been getting sick and going on "disability". Meanwhile, there are open low paying jobs that go begging or are filled by illegals who are using taxpayer resources without paying taxes.

DomYngBlk -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 1:24:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk It was verbal and nonverbal. I don't care about "those people" I think were his words. But sounds ominous. But, I am sure you will make a fool of yourself per the normal. Have at it... "Those peope" are the leaches on our country. Those who live on the welfare state, not the legal immigrant who needs help while getting started or the divorced woman suddenly needed food stamps and even housing to keep her and her children safe and warm and dry while trying to find a job or go to school. You know these leaches. Most people nowadays do. These are the leaches Mitt was discussing. He is right. You know they exist and pretending otherwise does not do you, or me or Mitt, justice. Time to get real. Get real this November 2. So that is 47% of people? And, no, I don't know there are any leaches. What I do know there are a lot of smug sanctimonious assholes sitting around pointing fingers.

DomYngBlk -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 1:26:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Link one... Families in generational poverty form their own culture No mention of welfare. Link 2... try something with better information.. and more recent. Link 3... Generational poverty does not automatically equate to generational welfare. Link 4... again.... a 20 year old report Dude... a report from the UK as proof of generational welfare in the US? According to statistics, 80% of AFDC recipients are off by the 5 year mark. http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/ Only 4.1% of the population is on welfare of some sort. Total number of American’s on welfare 15,000,000 Percent of the US population on welfare 4.1 % Curious. How does the count of those on Welfare remain low when unemployment is so much higher in a time of great recession? One wonders for a moment and then realizes we are discussing numbers coming from the Obama Administration... ...they did not include... a 4.5 million increase on the "disability" role since Obama came to power. There are millions more taken care of in "stimulus grants" using taxpayer and money borrowed from China sent to states for such purposes. Those who would be on welfare are actually on "long term unemployment" and then when that runs out a lot have been getting sick and going on "disability". Meanwhile, there are open low paying jobs that go begging or are filled by illegals who are using taxpayer resources without paying taxes. So during the other Great Depression you probably thought FDR was a communist for trying to help people.......since most of the country was "on the dole"

Arturas -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 1:28:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Link one... Families in generational poverty form their own culture No mention of welfare. Link 2... try something with better information.. and more recent. Link 3... Generational poverty does not automatically equate to generational welfare. Link 4... again.... a 20 year old report Dude... a report from the UK as proof of generational welfare in the US? According to statistics, 80% of AFDC recipients are off by the 5 year mark. http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/ Only 4.1% of the population is on welfare of some sort. Total number of American’s on welfare 15,000,000 Percent of the US population on welfare 4.1 % Curious. How does the count of those on Welfare remain low when unemployment is so much higher in a time of great recession? One wonders for a moment and then realizes we are discussing numbers coming from the Obama Administration... ...they did not include... a 4.5 million increase on the "disability" role since Obama came to power. There are millions more taken care of in "stimulus grants" using taxpayer and money borrowed from China sent to states for such purposes. Those who would be on welfare are actually on "long term unemployment" and then when that runs out a lot have been getting sick and going on "disability". Meanwhile, there are open low paying jobs that go begging or are filled by illegals who are using taxpayer resources without paying taxes. quote: According to statistics, 80% of AFDC recipients are off by the 5 year mark. Sounds good. But meaningless. Most who are AFDC go on another roll before the 5 year mark because the money is better if you are say, disabled, or you are in school permanently taking an endless number of student loans from the Government, yes, the taxpayer. Meaningless. What, you think single women with children suddently started filling those low paying jobs begging in the U.S. or being filled by illegals or do you think they in fact when with the better money offered by being a permanent student or being disabled for example. Think.

Arturas -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 1:39:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Link one... Families in generational poverty form their own culture No mention of welfare. Link 2... try something with better information.. and more recent. Link 3... Generational poverty does not automatically equate to generational welfare. Link 4... again.... a 20 year old report Dude... a report from the UK as proof of generational welfare in the US? According to statistics, 80% of AFDC recipients are off by the 5 year mark. http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/ Only 4.1% of the population is on welfare of some sort. Total number of American’s on welfare 15,000,000 Percent of the US population on welfare 4.1 % Curious. How does the count of those on Welfare remain low when unemployment is so much higher in a time of great recession? One wonders for a moment and then realizes we are discussing numbers coming from the Obama Administration... ...they did not include... a 4.5 million increase on the "disability" role since Obama came to power. There are millions more taken care of in "stimulus grants" using taxpayer and money borrowed from China sent to states for such purposes. Those who would be on welfare are actually on "long term unemployment" and then when that runs out a lot have been getting sick and going on "disability". Meanwhile, there are open low paying jobs that go begging or are filled by illegals who are using taxpayer resources without paying taxes. So during the other Great Depression you probably thought FDR was a communist for trying to help people.......since most of the country was "on the dole" Why would I think FDR was a communist? FDR was coping with a full blown depression whereas Obama is trying to create one we don't already have and Mitt is trying to prevent him from doing so and needs your vote to do it. That did not go the way you wanted, did it? During the depression 50 percent of Americans were underemployed. We are not there yet. What Mitt is trying to do is prevent us from going there. Nobody needs half of America under or un-employed. This is why we need less on the dole to quite sucking our county dry and the way to do that is to make it better for those on welfare to work even at low paying jobs than to sit at home and use welfare and focus on making the economy better with Mitt (and Clinton's plan btw) than "taxing the rich" and redistributing "wealth" in order to stay in power. Clinton was against not requiring people to look for jobs while on Welfare but Obama has removed that requirement. Ergo, nobody looks for jobs and they stay on welfare. Think.

tazzygirl -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 1:45:16 PM)
quote: Sounds good. But meaningless. Most who are AFDC go on another roll before the 5 year mark because the money is better if you are say, disabled, or you are in school permanently taking an endless number of student loans from the Government, yes, the taxpayer. Meaningless. What, you think single women with children suddently started filling those low paying jobs begging in the U.S. or being filled by illegals or do you think they in fact when with the better money offered by being a permanent student or being disabled for example. Think. Or could it possibly be that welfare encompasses not only women and children, but the blind and elderly as well? Huge segment of the population you are leaving out of there. AFDC is now TANF. Hell, Im on welfare right now.. will be off come November 1st. And.. pst... even the residencies programs run on welfare. So you are saying that every Doctor is now a recipient of welfare. Lets not leave them out. Oh, and lookie here Medicaid covers the full cost of a wide range of medical services, including inpatient and outpatient hospital care, doctor visits, lab tests, X-rays, nursing home and home health care, family planning services, and preventative medicine. A large proportion of the Medicaid population is elderly or disabled, and thus also qualifies for Medicare. In these cases, Medicaid usually pays for Medicare premiums, deductibles, and co-payments, in addition to some non-covered services. So before you demonize certain parts of the population, get an understanding of the numbers and what the programs actually do. The "Welfare" label is a broad one. Benefits is their business,. but how those benefits are paid out are not as clear cut as you want people to believe.

tazzygirl -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 1:47:49 PM)
quote: a 4.5 million increase on the "disability" role since Obama came to power. There are millions more taken care of in "stimulus grants" using taxpayer and money borrowed from China sent to states for such purposes. Those who would be on welfare are actually on "long term unemployment" and then when that runs out a lot have been getting sick and going on "disability". Meanwhile, there are open low paying jobs that go begging or are filled by illegals who are using taxpayer resources without paying taxes. I gave you the list of disabilities that are rubber stamped approved.. a very short list. The rest have to fight for it. Many are denied. I have to ask... you are here whining about people you insist you know are robbing the system... why dont you report them? Oh, btw, your numbers may be correct... but you did make an error. Even according to some of the most conservative sources, 5.4 million people SIGNED UP (applied). Anyone can apply. Even a Republican.. and many have. Take a look at any of the tea party gatherings. You will see many.

Lucylastic -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 1:49:46 PM)
Fouling your own nest is frowned upon?

tazzygirl -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 1:54:10 PM)
LOL Many want to make the distinction between "welfare" and "medicare"... lol.. many cross into both areas. But dont let on.. the GOPers are having a rough enough time as it is.

Arturas -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 2:00:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Sounds good. But meaningless. Most who are AFDC go on another roll before the 5 year mark because the money is better if you are say, disabled, or you are in school permanently taking an endless number of student loans from the Government, yes, the taxpayer. Meaningless. What, you think single women with children suddently started filling those low paying jobs begging in the U.S. or being filled by illegals or do you think they in fact when with the better money offered by being a permanent student or being disabled for example. Think. Or could it possibly be that welfare encompasses not only women and children, but the blind and elderly as well? Huge segment of the population you are leaving out of there. AFDC is now TANF. Hell, Im on welfare right now.. will be off come November 1st. And.. pst... even the residencies programs run on welfare. So you are saying that every Doctor is now a recipient of welfare. Lets not leave them out. Oh, and lookie here Medicaid covers the full cost of a wide range of medical services, including inpatient and outpatient hospital care, doctor visits, lab tests, X-rays, nursing home and home health care, family planning services, and preventative medicine. A large proportion of the Medicaid population is elderly or disabled, and thus also qualifies for Medicare. In these cases, Medicaid usually pays for Medicare premiums, deductibles, and co-payments, in addition to some non-covered services. So before you demonize certain parts of the population, get an understanding of the numbers and what the programs actually do. The "Welfare" label is a broad one. Benefits is their business,. but how those benefits are paid out are not as clear cut as you want people to believe. Meaningless. Medicaid and Medicare are not part of the welfare numbers. Neither are the retired elderly who draw Social Security and Medicare. Untrue. Medical Residency programs are not funded by welfare funds or programs, so no, resident Doctors are not on the welfare roles. So, when confronted with facts it's clear that Romney is not a "product of the welfare state" but many of the leaches Mitt was refering to are indeed a product of Obama's "welfare state" and this is one we cannot afford and so it is up to you to make the choice November 2. You choose. Depression welfare state under Obama or an America back to work under Mitt. Think.

tazzygirl -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 2:08:21 PM)
quote: Meaningless. Medicaid and Medicare are not part of the welfare numbers. Neither are the retired elderly who draw Social Security and Medicare. Oh give me a fucking break. So your whole bitch is only about TANF? Aid could include general welfare payments, health care through Medicaid, food stamps, special payments for pregnant women and young mothers, and federal and state housing benefits.[9] General welfare Main articles: Supplemental Security Income and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program provides stipends to low-income people who are either aged (65 or older), blind, or disabled. The Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) provides cash assistance to indigent American families with dependent children. Medicare is a social insurance program administered by the United States government, providing health insurance coverage to people who are aged 65 and over; to those who are under 65 and are permanently physically disabled or who have a congenital physical disability; or to those who meet other special criteria like the End Stage Reneal Disease program (ESRD). Medicare in the United States somewhat resembles a single-payer health care system but is not. Before Medicare, only 51% of people aged 65 and older had health care coverage, and nearly 30% lived below the federal poverty level. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_programs_in_the_United_States quote: Untrue. Medical Residency programs are not funded by welfare funds or programs, so no, resident Doctors are not on the welfare roles. The Department of Health and Human Services, primarily Medicare, funds the vast majority of residency training in the US. This tax-based financing covers resident salaries and benefits through payments called Direct Medical Education or DME payments. Medicare also uses taxes for Indirect Medical Education or IME payments, a subsidy paid to teaching hospitals that is tied to admissions of Medicare patients in exchange for training resident physicians.[16] Overall funding levels, however, have remained frozen over the last ten years, creating a bottleneck in the training of new physicians in the US, according to the AMA.[17] On the other hand, some argue that Medicare subsidies for training residents simply provide surplus revenue for hospitals which recoup their training costs by paying residents salaries (roughly $45,000 per year) that are far below the residents' market value.[18][19] Nicholson's research suggests, in fact, that residency bottlenecks are not caused by a Medicare funding cap, but rather, by Residency Review Committees (which approve new residencies in each specialty) which seek to limit the number of specialists in their field to maintain high incomes.[20] In any case, hospitals trained residents long before Medicare provided additional subsidies for that purpose. A large number of teaching hospitals fund resident training to increase the supply of residency slots, leading to the modest 4% total growth in slots from 1998–2004.[17] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residency_(medicine)

Arturas -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 2:21:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Meaningless. Medicaid and Medicare are not part of the welfare numbers. Neither are the retired elderly who draw Social Security and Medicare. Oh give me a fucking break. So your whole bitch is only about TANF? Aid could include general welfare payments, health care through Medicaid, food stamps, special payments for pregnant women and young mothers, and federal and state housing benefits.[9] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_programs_in_the_United_States quote: Untrue. Medical Residency programs are not funded by welfare funds or programs, so no, resident Doctors are not on the welfare roles. The Department of Health and Human Services, primarily Medicare, funds the vast majority of residency training in the US. This tax-based financing covers resident salaries and benefits through payments called Direct Medical Education or DME payments. Medicare also uses taxes for Indirect Medical Education or IME payments, a subsidy paid to teaching hospitals that is tied to admissions of Medicare patients in exchange for training resident physicians.[16] Overall funding levels, however, have remained frozen over the last ten years, creating a bottleneck in the training of new physicians in the US, according to the AMA.[17] On the other hand, some argue that Medicare subsidies for training residents simply provide surplus revenue for hospitals which recoup their training costs by paying residents salaries (roughly $45,000 per year) that are far below the residents' market value.[18][19] Nicholson's research suggests, in fact, that residency bottlenecks are not caused by a Medicare funding cap, but rather, by Residency Review Committees (which approve new residencies in each specialty) which seek to limit the number of specialists in their field to maintain high incomes.[20] In any case, hospitals trained residents long before Medicare provided additional subsidies for that purpose. A large number of teaching hospitals fund resident training to increase the supply of residency slots, leading to the modest 4% total growth in slots from 1998–2004.[17] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residency_(medicine) I'm not focused on that one program. There are dozens. Let's take the food stamp program. It has grown 50 percent since Obama took office and he boosted benifits with stimulus programs (the "hidden" welfare increase). This number is not in your number. No matter how many words you cut and paste, Medicare is not a welfare. I will use Medicare when retired and I will not be on welfare. Neither are Medical Doctor residents partially funded by Medicare on welfare. Medicare partially funds these programs to ensure there are enough doctors to care for our population. They are paid around 50-60 k a year to be on their three year residencies. This is not welfare.

DomKen -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 2:22:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas a 4.5 million increase on the "disability" role since Obama came to power. It surprises you that the number of disabled has increased what with 2 wars and the worst recession in 80 years? BTW I'm in that cohort and you're welcome to switch kidneys with me to see if mine have actually failed.

slvemike4u -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 2:23:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Ooops... missed part of my OP. Why is he denigrating 47% of the US when his own grandfather used that very system Romney is complaining about? Is Romney calling for an end to all entitlements? Is he going to remove all Federal assistance from the services offered by the Federal government? No he isn't,and I have seen no one here suggest he is...what he is doing though is denigrating all of those who avail themselves of those programs. And please do not bother denying this,at best his words suggest that all of those folks can be counted on to ,in effect,sell their votes in order to keep this gravy train rolling.

Arturas -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 2:23:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Meaningless. Medicaid and Medicare are not part of the welfare numbers. Neither are the retired elderly who draw Social Security and Medicare. Oh give me a fucking break. So your whole bitch is only about TANF? Aid could include general welfare payments, health care through Medicaid, food stamps, special payments for pregnant women and young mothers, and federal and state housing benefits.[9] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_programs_in_the_United_States quote: Untrue. Medical Residency programs are not funded by welfare funds or programs, so no, resident Doctors are not on the welfare roles. The Department of Health and Human Services, primarily Medicare, funds the vast majority of residency training in the US. This tax-based financing covers resident salaries and benefits through payments called Direct Medical Education or DME payments. Medicare also uses taxes for Indirect Medical Education or IME payments, a subsidy paid to teaching hospitals that is tied to admissions of Medicare patients in exchange for training resident physicians.[16] Overall funding levels, however, have remained frozen over the last ten years, creating a bottleneck in the training of new physicians in the US, according to the AMA.[17] On the other hand, some argue that Medicare subsidies for training residents simply provide surplus revenue for hospitals which recoup their training costs by paying residents salaries (roughly $45,000 per year) that are far below the residents' market value.[18][19] Nicholson's research suggests, in fact, that residency bottlenecks are not caused by a Medicare funding cap, but rather, by Residency Review Committees (which approve new residencies in each specialty) which seek to limit the number of specialists in their field to maintain high incomes.[20] In any case, hospitals trained residents long before Medicare provided additional subsidies for that purpose. A large number of teaching hospitals fund resident training to increase the supply of residency slots, leading to the modest 4% total growth in slots from 1998–2004.[17] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residency_(medicine) I'm not focused on that one program. There are dozens. Let's take the food stamp program. It has grown 50 percent since Obama took office and he boosted benifits with stimulus programs (the "hidden" welfare increase). This number is not in your number. No matter how many words you cut and paste, Medicare is not a welfare. I will use Medicare when retired and I will not be on welfare. Neither are Medical Doctor residents partially funded by Medicare on welfare. Medicare partially funds these programs to ensure there are enough doctors to care for our population. They are paid around 50-60 k a year to be on their three year residencies. This is not welfare. So...don't even try and spin this like I (and Mitt) are attacking resident doctors like they are leaches on the economy.

mnottertail -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 2:24:32 PM)
quote: Let's take the food stamp program. It has grown 50 percent since Obama took office and he boosted benifits with stimulus programs (the "hidden" welfare increase). This number is not in your number. Why did the republicans fund that 50% increase? Only they can do it, revenue and spending originates in the house. They did that for their teabaggers who are the welfare patients in this country.

Arturas -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 2:30:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: a 4.5 million increase on the "disability" role since Obama came to power. There are millions more taken care of in "stimulus grants" using taxpayer and money borrowed from China sent to states for such purposes. Those who would be on welfare are actually on "long term unemployment" and then when that runs out a lot have been getting sick and going on "disability". Meanwhile, there are open low paying jobs that go begging or are filled by illegals who are using taxpayer resources without paying taxes. I gave you the list of disabilities that are rubber stamped approved.. a very short list. The rest have to fight for it. Many are denied. I have to ask... you are here whining about people you insist you know are robbing the system... why dont you report them? Oh, btw, your numbers may be correct... but you did make an error. Even according to some of the most conservative sources, 5.4 million people SIGNED UP (applied). Anyone can apply. Even a Republican.. and many have. Take a look at any of the tea party gatherings. You will see many. According to sources the Government no longer can effectively verify applicants and recertify disabilities due to the large increase in those numbers and are now rubber stamping those even on full disability. No. 5.4 million encrease in the disability rolls. You are not on the roll just by applying. So, it appears you and others are left with diversions to keep from admitting Obama is leading us into a welfare state and that Mitt was not a product of such a thing and indeed he is will keep is out of such a situation if he wins in November. I guess my job is done here.

tazzygirl -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 2:39:01 PM)
No. 5.4 million encrease in the disability rolls. 5.4 Million Join Disability Rolls Under Obama A record 5.4 million workers and their dependents have signed up to collect federal disability checks since President Obama took office, according to the latest official government data, as discouraged workers increasingly give up looking for jobs and take advantage of the federal program. http://news.investors.com/business/042012-608418-ssdi-disability-rolls-skyrocket-under-obama.htm?p=full Disabled worker beneficiary statistics by calendar year, quarter, and month Number of current payments 2009 7,789,113 2011 8,576,067 Yes, you are done with your spin here.

JanahX -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 2:39:39 PM)
Hmmmm... it doesnt seem like a whole lot of tax dollars are being paid out to welfare to me - but of course maybe we could put more of the tax dollars into MILITARY, since its obvious that enough doesnt go into that funding. Im sure thats what Romney really meant. What a douche. http://www.whitehouse.gov/2011-taxreceipt

mnottertail -> RE: Romney.... product of welfare state (9/19/2012 2:41:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas IAccording to sources the Government no longer can effectively verify applicants and recertify disabilities due to the large increase in those numbers and are now rubber stamping those even on full disability. No. 5.4 million encrease in the disability rolls. You are not on the roll just by applying. So, it appears you and others are left with diversions to keep from admitting Obama is leading us into a welfare state and that Mitt was not a product of such a thing and indeed he is will keep is out of such a situation if he wins in November. I guess my job is done here. You could still throw thirty or fourty more indeeds in there, and indeed it would still be a notion that is total asswipe.

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