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RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 1:26:45 AM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline 		It is great fun to provoke someone who cannot do anything about it except get upset.

Especially if it's someone dangerous.

These kids, idiots all, are having a great time. They are not going to stop while it's fun. You want it to stop, you have to take the fun out of it for the kids, or add a dash of anguish for the ladies.

Do film. Film up to the point the kids enter the daycare. Then email the daycare a copy of the film while explaining the problem. Give a copy of both film and email to the police and to your lawyer. But consider carefully the point you need to make with all concerned.

You are not trying to protect anyone from your dogs. You are not trying to protect anyone from themselves. You are not trying to protect anyone from stupid, dangerous habits encouraged by those who should be discouraging stupid dangerous habits. What you are trying to do is protect your dogs. Both from these idiots in particular and also from others who may take in the unreasonable idea that it was your dogs who were being aggressive, when in truth it was the idiots who stirred up the dogs because they thought it was fun... and who would be acting JUST the same as they have been if they themselves called the police and complained they they couldn't walk past with out the dogs going off....

It's about anticipating... It's one thing to explain to an officer taking a routine report that these people (THESE ones, in the film) have been harassing your dogs (Just like they are doing in the film) and that you reasonably believe your neighbors won't like the noise and will blame the dogs. It's another thing entirely to be on the defensive, all of a sudden, talking to an ill-informed officer sent specifically to shut your dogs up (or worse) when you have no film to show or any record of having made any attempt to resolve the matter before he showed up to straighten you out by shoving his badge in your face.

Two more things. I think it a mistake to try to teach the dogs (SHOCK COLLAR) when it is the people who are fucking up. I mean, WHAT are you going to teach the dogs? I think it a mistake to use a sprinkler or any other sort of tit-for-tat stratagem to try to reduce this problem. The result one should expect when one engages the enemy is a battle.

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RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 1:33:29 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		My neighbour (two fantastic German Shepherds) had the same problem with kids (albeit slightly older kids) harassing the dogs on their school run.

He called the local police station, informally, and asked to speak to a police dog handler to get some advice.

The dog handler was amazing. He came down with one of his dogs and waited for the kids to arrive, then had a really constructive conversation with the kids...

Subsequently, this police officer set up a number of visits to local schools.

I don't know if you could speak with someone from your local K9 police unit?

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RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 4:56:46 AM   
calamitysandra


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Joined: 3/17/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Maybe even place a box of treats outside of the fence where the children can feed the dogs a treat rather then tease them… worth a try anyway.


Absolutely not!

Dogs should be trained to not take treats from strangers without their owners present and giving them a go ahead.
Plus, what do you guess would happen if one of the kids was a bit clumsy while feeding the dogs, sustaining a scratch from their teeth in the process?

While the kids (and even more so the adults in charge of them) are quite obviously in the wrong, and many good suggestions as to handling the immediate situation have been made, in the long run I would try to either make those confrontations impossible by means of landscaping on your side of the fence, or, the best long term solution in my opinion, train the dogs to not react to such provocations.


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RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 8:48:45 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

Dogs should be trained to not take treats from strangers without their owners present


Who said the owner would not be present.


You and the op must realize it makes no difference if a few children are at fault or not when it comes to barking. Not all children tease them but i will bet they bark at all children. Animal Control and local authorities will hold the dog owners at fault in this case. If you can't change the actions of the children, and it may be too late anyway, then you must change the actions of your dogs... the only thing you have real control over.

I am trying to be realistic in solutions and the only solution is to stop the dogs from barking even if provoked…right or wrong and blame means nothing. When it comes to pets and people…people will always win.

The op has been shooting down all the proposed solutions as not feasible…So that only leaves ignoring the situation until people force the issue by complaining about the dogs barking or stopping the dogs from barking.

I only see a few solutions… the shock collar training which does not really hurt the dogs but just reinforces training… Or…try to acquaint the dogs and children and change their behavior.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/21/2012 8:51:48 AM >

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RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 9:04:24 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
The op has been shooting down all the proposed solutions as not feasible…So that only leaves ignoring the situation until people force the issue by complaining about the dogs barking or stopping the dogs from barking.


I did not shoot down every solution.

I shot down replacing the fence, which would cost about $2000.00 - $3000.00.

I shot down calling the police, simply because I think they have better things to do.

I shot down landscaping because on the outside of the fence belongs to the city and on the inside of the fence due to the nature of our yard it is not feasible.

I shot down trying to frighten the children by having an aggressive dog on a long leash.

I agreed that video taping, speaking directly to the daycare and speaking to a lawyer was a good idea.

Rather than calling the police, I may go down to the Sheriffs station and just present the information.

I will NOT put a shock collar on the dogs. Beyond the fact that I'm not going to punish them for being dogs, it would damage our relationship with Raider forever. He's freaked out by collars as it is, since he was lassoed as an 8 week old puppy by animal control after being dumped on the street with his litter mates.

The neighbors have not complained and if they do, I will simply keep the dogs inside since I work from home. (Keep in mind that our dogs are fine with pretty much everybody walking by, they're responding to someone screaming at them) Obviously, I'd prefer that the children be taught not to scream, but if I need to, I will keep the dogs inside during the morning.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake
I think it a mistake to use a sprinkler or any other sort of tit-for-tat stratagem to try to reduce this problem. The result one should expect when one engages the enemy is a battle.
Actually, my thought was that if the sprinkler was on before they come through, they'd be forced to walk on the other side of the street, away from our yard.



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RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 10:00:24 AM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline 		Here is a solution.
Motion activated water sprinkler. I use it to keep deer away from my tomatoe plants. But will work well with humans too :)

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RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 12:50:26 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		OsideGirl I didn't mean shoot down in a derogatory way...maybe I should have said not feasible.

And of course I have no knowledge of your dogs past history and trouble with collars.

And I also understand your not wanting to use shock collars but I just want to emphasize they are not punishment...they are a training aid. The shock is not painful but just a reminder of your training. Good loving dog owners use them all the time to train for the electronic fences. And they are only temporary. The real punishment to your dogs would be to keep them inside if the neighbors complain. But still shock collar sounds bad and it is your choice of course.

If they were children rather than dogs would you not tell your children not to yell back at their tormentors? Same with the dogs you should train them not to bark back...It is not punishment but the proper thing to do.

I do wish you luck in your problems…I still think making friends with the children and dogs is the answer but in any case it will not be easy.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/21/2012 1:17:23 PM >

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 1:18:08 PM   
OsideGirl


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Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
The real punishment to your dogs would be to keep them inside if the neighbors complain.


They wouldn't be inside all day, just a portion of the morning when the kids go by. They generally don't bark at anyone else. But, I do agree, they're a Ridgeback mix and Aussie mix and they love to run around, being locked in is totally unfun for them.


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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

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RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 1:26:18 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Ridgeback mix and Aussie mix


What good looking breeds...You should post a picture for us.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 1:40:58 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14442
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		My favorite picture of them. Raider adores his big brother.



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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 1:43:17 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Awwwwwwwwwww, that looks like my house! Even the same sofa!

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 2:14:41 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		lol...makes you want to hug them..thanks..I love big old dogs.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 4:08:57 PM   
culareD


Posts: 762
Joined: 8/16/2012
Status: offline 		I would "expose"the dog/s to these "conditions" you have mentioned and train HARD...repetition will bode well when training your baby.

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RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 4:45:38 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

That changes everything. I wonder what those parents would think if they knew the daycare workers (or worse yet owners) were teaching their kids to be bad dog bait?

Video tape the event, preferably more than once.

Talk to the kids in your neighborhood (its my experience the kids know everything going on in anyone's neighborhood), show them the tape, find out who the kids are being walked, and thus determine who the parents are. Contact the parents and show them the tapes. When you do, suggest they contact whatever entity is responsible for licensing daycares in SoCa.

I suspect the parents will deal with the problem promptly, hopefully by putting the daycare out of business.





This sounds good to me.

With regard to the local law enforcement, keep in mind that they won't hesitate to bother you if someone gets bitten, which is an event that seems to be just waiting to happen. Obviously you don't want to pester the police or make anyone's life difficult. However, you really do need to take preemptive measures so that you and your dogs don't get turned into the bad guys when it hits the fan.

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RE: What would you do? - 9/21/2012 4:53:56 PM   
LizDeluxe


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake
These kids, idiots all, are having a great time. They are not going to stop while it's fun. You want it to stop, you have to take the fun out of it for the kids, or add a dash of anguish for the ladies.


Those little pricks are the ones who need the shock collars... and their keepers and their parents.

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Profile   Post #: 55
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