RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (Full Version)

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Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 9:36:35 AM)

(And again, even if he is right, he does NOT prove George is wrong.)



tazzygirl -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 9:37:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

On pants and shoe colors.... lol.. Hell.. I could have gotten that much wrong. But physical placement of a body... not hardly.


In other words, who cares about the details he gets wrong as long as the one detail you need to be right has a chance of being right.


Nope... color of clothes do not bother me. We can look at the same exact pants and call them a different color. Khaki as opposed to sage green, pink vs hot pink, perriwinkle blue vs robin blue... ect ect ect.



Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 9:40:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Uh huh.. those few precious moments he was alive are those George swears he had the kid with his arms outstretched.


Making an awful big assumption there. Nowhere does George say how long he remained there before getting up.

I see no reason to leap to the conclusion that George stayed there until Martin was dead, with him being alive for several minutes.

In absence of the facts, you seem willing to leap to any conclusion that has a chance to prove George wrong, whether or not there is actually anything to support it.



tazzygirl -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 9:43:20 AM)

Then study the heart and how it operates... as they blood flows from the body, the ability to even move becomes drastically reduced minute by minute.... by the time someone got on top.. pulled his arms out... stretching the body.. then climbed off... Trayvon would not have been able to move enough to pull his hands back underneath him. This is just common sense anatomy and physiology. Just because someone "lives" for a few moments doesnt mean they can actually move.



Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 9:48:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Then study the heart and how it operates... as they blood flows from the body, the ability to even move becomes drastically reduced minute by minute.... by the time someone got on top.. pulled his arms out... stretching the body.. then climbed off... Trayvon would not have been able to move enough to pull his hands back underneath him. This is just common sense anatomy and physiology. Just because someone "lives" for a few moments doesnt mean they can actually move.


Again with the assumptions. Considering how quickly police arrived after the shooting and saw George already standing up, it's not likely George even had him pinned for a minute. It could have been as few as 15 to 20 seconds; long enough to see W13 come out then hear sirens show up. You're just guessing to at every point to try and prove the unproveable.

We don't know how long. We just know that W6 sees Trayvon's arms out to the sides before police arrival. There's no evidence to indicate he is wrong at that point. Ayala says Trayvon's arms were under upon arrival. There's some evidence to indicate that Ayala's recollection wasn't perfect. There's no evidence to disprove the possibility of them both being right. Thus, there's no evidence to disprove George's story.



cuckoldmepls -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 9:49:13 AM)

I'm so sick of hearing about this. I'm going to post a zimmerman donation link everytime I see this topic come up. I've donated twice already myself. The first time to his personal website, which a Judge arbitrarily took away his Constitutional right to ask for personal assitance and the site was taken down. Then to his lawyer defense fund which is just plain wrong, but I did it any way since it's wrong to prosecute a law abiding citizen for trying to keep his neighborhood crime free.

Since when did we start prosecuting law abiding citizens & persecuting successful people? Oh I know, when Obama too office.

http://www.gzlegalcase.com/
http://www.gzdefensefund.com/



tazzygirl -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 9:54:44 AM)

LOL.. no assumptions. My field allows me to know these things. The heart was pumping blood into the chest cavity with each beat... which increased with both pain and fear.... well over the 70 beats per minute thats considered normal. With each beat, more blood loss.

quote:

The two doctors agreed that Trayvon remained conscious for a time. Anderson suggested the teenager may have been conscious for several minutes. Manion estimated it at just 20 to 30 seconds.


Even the experts cannot agree on how long he may have been alive after the shooting. But even several minutes would have not allowed the boy to pull his arms back beneath him.



mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 9:57:38 AM)

 
There's no evidence to indicate he is wrong at that point.
There is no evidence that proves hi is correct 
Ayala says Trayvon's arms were under upon arrival.
There is a picture as well.
There's some evidence to indicate that Ayala's recollection wasn't perfect.
There is no evidence to indicate this.
There's no evidence to disprove the possibility of them both being right.
There is no evidence to disporve the possibility of them both being wrong.

Thus, there's no evidence to disprove George's story.
And that is what we call a non-sequitur, and an excluded middle, and selective but untutored misuse of evidence, fact and inapropriate conclusion, not supported by, or following from evidence and fact.





Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 9:58:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL.. no assumptions. My field allows me to know these things.


That's not what I asserted you were assuming. I even specified what you were.

It kinda gets old, your habit of ignoring what I actually say and answering your strawman of what I said.



mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 9:59:43 AM)

Cuz you haven't at this point said anything cogent or coherent regarding this.



tazzygirl -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 9:59:54 AM)

how is that a straw man?

quote:

Again with the assumptions.


Not everything is an assumption. Some things are just biology.



Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 10:00:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And that is what we call a non-sequitur, and an excluded middle, and selective but untutored misuse of evidence, fact and inapropriate conclusion, not supported by, or following from evidence and fact.



Yeah, you guys really should cut that out.



Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 10:02:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

how is that a straw man?


I didn't say you were assuming the biological aspect of it. I specified what you were assuming was in regards to George's actions. You responded as if I claimed you were making an assumption about the biology. Like you just did again:

quote:



Not everything is an assumption. Some things are just biology.




I didn't dispute the biology aspect of it.



mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 10:03:14 AM)

We have proof that he didn't move because the doctor didn't say he did.

His arms were under him, he was face down, zimmerman fucking lying.  proof.



Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 10:04:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We have proof that he didn't move because the doctor didn't say he did.

His arms were under him, he was face down, zimmerman fucking lying.  proof.


Evidence shows otherwise.



mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 10:04:57 AM)

We have proof that there are no earth stains on the weapon because nobody said there were.  Therefore Zimmerman is lying.



mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 10:06:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We have proof that he didn't move because the doctor didn't say he did.

His arms were under him, he was face down, zimmerman fucking lying.  proof.


Evidence shows otherwise.


There is no evidence that shows otherwise.



Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 10:10:32 AM)

I think you're forgetting, at trial, the Defense doesn't have to prove anything. If something is to be proved, it's the prosecution that has to do it.

If the Defense claims one thing, and the Prosecution claims another; the Prosecution has to show proof the Defense's claim is untrue. If they can't, the Defense's version has to be believed according to Florida law.




Rule -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 10:30:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun
Why did W8 tell Bernie that Trayvon said he was "rushing home to watch...to finish watching the game"...correcting herself mid-sentence to a statement we know now to be false? Did Crump not think to check when the game started before coaching her on that story?

It is a strange tale. What is to be gained by pretending that the altercation occurred at a later time than it did?

Is there an insurance on Martin that is paid out when he is murdered, but not when he is killed in self-defense?

Is the lie that Martin was hurrying? That he did not need to hurry before the game, but that he needed to hurry during half-time?



mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/5/2012 10:33:23 AM)

I aint forgetting shit.   He has as his testimony to date some glaring physical impossibilites and lies as his version of events.

If they are physically impossible, he lied.  Simple as that, no alternatives, and his version of events is then proven to be a lie beyond a reasonable doubt.  It is unquestionable doubt.



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