Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (Full Version)

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im2good2u -> Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/20/2012 11:37:48 PM)

Having come to a place in my journey where I am willing and, more to the point, able to fulfill my desire to dominate a female submissive that, for many years, existed only as a fantasy; I have begun the process of delving into the cerebral aspects of the dominant-submissive relationship. Now, I fully embrace my newfound pervert status and good-naturedly describe myself as a despicable degenerate. But it was not always so.

I see now, with the clarity of hindsight, that I suffered from some misconceptions about the nature of my fetish and the synergy of the D/S relation. I was not alone in my ignorance. It can be no surprise in a post-civil-rights, post-feminist world, that any practice which is seen to degrade, objectify, humiliate, in short, to dominate another human being, is viewed with disgust, if not unbridled hostility. Indeed, this very point of view caused me to spend nearly all of my adult life confining myself to a plain vanilla sex life and suppressing a desire to indulge my fetish.

I wrongly believed that this dark, hidden nature was contrary to my better nature, which is kind, gentle, caring and respectful, and therefore was not to be indulged. Yet my frustrated fancy kept me fantasizing about bondage, spanking and other forms of control, which I would ordinarily consider cruel and not to be tolerated in a civilized society. I had mixed feelings between my carnal desires and being able to see myself dominating a person whom I esteemed highly enough to be on terms of intimacy.

Still, due largely to internet porn, I came to understand that many women apparently willingly endure this degradation and even real pain and in fact seem to derive pleasure from it. This gave me hope that I could become reconciled to my darkest passions.

My thinking on the subject found support in the writings of Jay Wiseman, viz. that it is not only possible, but of absolute necessity, to cherish the one whom you dominate and humiliate! This sounds like an oxymoron; but then, is not part of the allure, the utter disregard of societal norms and common notions of decency?

As a dominate, one comes to appreciate the submissive who, by their submission, gives pleasure by willingly giving over control and allowing themselves to come under total domination within previously agreed limits. Unlike a true sadist, it is essential to the dominate's enjoyment that the submissive derive pleasure from the encounter. Indeed, the dominate, if such be his nature, comes to esteem the submissive and value their encounters much more highly then the ordinary, garden variety encounters with a partner with whom he is constrained to stay within the bounds of propriety.

There is created a kind of ironic tension that contrasts and therefore enhances and magnifies both the feelings of absolute power and domination and the feelings of highest regard and appreciation. These two seemingly incongruent feelings must exist together for the mental and spiritual health of both parties in what could truly be called a healthy relationship. The dominant willingly allows his dominate role to be governed and held subject to the part of him that cherishes the submissive. Were one who is of “normal character” (meaning one who is fit to roam about freely as a contributing member of a civilized society) to do otherwise, it would violate his conscience and cause unbearable feelings of guilt and remorse that he will take great care to avoid. It is here that the line is drawn that separates healthy sexual activity between consenting adults and the unacceptable, criminal behavior of the psychopath.

Please share your thoughts on this.




LadyPact -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 12:15:31 AM)

Well, it sounds like you have a start in reading. Many of your terms are not used the way that many of us do. Please, learn the difference between dominant and dominate.

Next, please learn that there are no absolutes. Yes, it makes it sound like you're a caring human being when you're telling us how it's necessary to feel this way or that, but nothing is universal.

DON'T LEARN FROM PORN. You understand that those people are paid to follow a script for their reactions, right?

Really, you come off as somebody who read a book and looked over some porn and now you want to preach your new found wisdom. You don't have any practical application to your thoughts and it shows. Most submissives are far more experienced than to want to hear the preacher from the pulpit of non experience. All in all, I think it's mostly talk to hear yourself talk and ruminate on stuff that you've read, but not lived, so far.


ETA - For what it's worth, Jay happens to be a really nice guy and does a number of teaching opportunities across the country. His schedule for upcoming events can usually be found on his website.




MistressDarkArt -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 12:20:09 AM)

quote:

Still, due largely to internet porn, I came to understand that many women apparently willingly endure this degradation and even real pain and in fact seem to derive pleasure from it.


What we have here is a severe case of porn-contamination. Porn is not a depiction of how this works in the real world. Women don't get up in the morning and say, 'hey, I'd love to be hog-tied and dicked in the bung by some dude I never met before and will never see again while all these other people I never met schlepping cameras pull in for a tight pussy shot so I think I'll volunteer for porn today.' Women do porn because it can pay very, very well. They are called 'actresses' and 'models' for a reason.

quote:

I see now, with the clarity of hindsight, that I suffered from some misconceptions about the nature of my fetish and the synergy of the D/S relation.


Huh, ya think? See above.

quote:

to the dominate's enjoyment that the submissive derive pleasure from the encounter. Indeed, the dominate, if such be his nature,


quote:

allows his dominate role


D o m i n a n t You cannot be a verb.

quote:

Please share your thoughts on this.


My thoughts are these: first, welcome to the lifestyle and CM. Second, turn off your computer, put Jay Wiseman back on the shelf, and get thee to a munch where you can meet lifestyle people in person. You will be amazed how quickly they will disabuse you of your porn-inculcated fantasies and set you on the right path.

You are correct about one thing: at the very least respect and affection for your partner makes whatever you do, vanilla or not, a significant experience and not a throw-away.

Good luck on your journey, and all the best.

Edit: I spelling-policed myself.

PS: I just crossed paths w/LP's post above. Like her, I think you're preaching to the choir here and from a pretty ignorant pulpit at that. It's fine to be excited about the lifestyle, but get some practical knowledge under your belt before you start crowing about what you've learned from porn, ffs.




JanahX -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 2:05:02 AM)

What the hell is with the essay? Whatever dood - go get your rocks off, and quit over thinking everything. Its really not that complicated.




crazyml -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 2:28:59 AM)

Honestly brother?

I think you're over thinking all of this stuff.

I'm with LadyPact... stop thinking and start doing.

Remember, you're forming relationships, and you need to constantly remind yourself that all of the standard golden rules of forming relationships apply.





loveseat -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 3:26:04 AM)

Welcome to CM :) I'm a pretty verbose person myself so I enjoyed reading your wordy post.

I agree with your summation about the modern world, and will add that I think women as a whole have been painted with the feminists rights brush, and as shameful as you think it is for a man to admit to wanting to degrade and humiliate a woman, it can be equally as shameful for a woman to admit in this day and age that she just loves to be degraded and humiliated.

You do need to stop taking cues of any kind from porn though... it's entertainment, not sociology.




kiwisub12 -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 4:05:44 AM)

Shesh - i don't think its shameful at all to do what is true to your self. My self loves things that others would cringe at - and i'm as happy as a clam in polluted waters.!

OP - find someone to play with and have a relationship with and love who you are. [:D]




Salinedion -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 4:29:54 AM)

Man, get that dominant/dominate thing right. It's like waving a red flag in front of a bull to the women here.

You need to get comfortable in your own skin about being dominate (intentional) and you need to find women (the net, floating an innocent comment or two in RL) who are game. I mean, obviously.

Over-explaning yourself is anti-hot. As per Lady Pact and others, group settings, posting here, maybe keep a journal of your dominate feelings are useful things to do while waiting for lightening to strike.

Everyone was new once. Lots (half?) of women are open to some form of sub-play in the bedroom. Great to be you.




DarkSteven -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 5:53:19 AM)

Fella, all that thinking and studying isn't worth four seconds of a play party or munch. Just go out and meet people.




Cloudz -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 6:00:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Fella, all that thinking and studying isn't worth four seconds of a play party or munch. Just go out and meet people.

quote:

Fella, all that thinking and studying isn't worth four seconds of a play party or munch. Just go out and meet people.


OP -

Clearly you have done your research in the dusty halls of learning. Good for you for getting a foundation. Now take some excellent real world advice as stated above. No one ever got his feet wet by reading about a dance in the rain. Learn by doing and best of luck!




KnightofMists -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 6:19:11 AM)

Mmmmmm well that is um interesting... Can't say I read it all... It was shall we say rather um boring

It always amazes me people try to describe what the water is like when they have never even dipped their foot into the pool let alone jumped in. When you actually find out what the water feels like maybe you have something alittle more to say... Actually you most likely have more questions than answer at first.




sunshinemiss -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 6:47:22 AM)

I like how DS calls him "Fella" and ML calls him "Brother"...




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 7:10:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

I like how DS calls him "Fella" and ML calls him "Brother"...


That was the best part.





Kana -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 7:20:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: im2good2u

Having come to a place in my journey where I am willing and, more to the point, able to fulfill my desire to dominate a female submissive that, for many years, existed only as a fantasy; I have begun the process of delving into the cerebral aspects of the dominant-submissive relationship. Now, I fully embrace my newfound pervert status and good-naturedly describe myself as a despicable degenerate. But it was not always so.

I see now, with the clarity of hindsight, that I suffered from some misconceptions about the nature of my fetish and the synergy of the D/S relation. I was not alone in my ignorance. It can be no surprise in a post-civil-rights, post-feminist world, that any practice which is seen to degrade, objectify, humiliate, in short, to dominate another human being, is viewed with disgust, if not unbridled hostility. Indeed, this very point of view caused me to spend nearly all of my adult life confining myself to a plain vanilla sex life and suppressing a desire to indulge my fetish.

I wrongly believed that this dark, hidden nature was contrary to my better nature, which is kind, gentle, caring and respectful, and therefore was not to be indulged. Yet my frustrated fancy kept me fantasizing about bondage, spanking and other forms of control, which I would ordinarily consider cruel and not to be tolerated in a civilized society. I had mixed feelings between my carnal desires and being able to see myself dominating a person whom I esteemed highly enough to be on terms of intimacy.

Still, due largely to internet porn, I came to understand that many women apparently willingly endure this degradation and even real pain and in fact seem to derive pleasure from it. This gave me hope that I could become reconciled to my darkest passions.

My thinking on the subject found support in the writings of Jay Wiseman, viz. that it is not only possible, but of absolute necessity, to cherish the one whom you dominate and humiliate! This sounds like an oxymoron; but then, is not part of the allure, the utter disregard of societal norms and common notions of decency?

As a dominate, one comes to appreciate the submissive who, by their submission, gives pleasure by willingly giving over control and allowing themselves to come under total domination within previously agreed limits. Unlike a true sadist, it is essential to the dominate's enjoyment that the submissive derive pleasure from the encounter. Indeed, the dominate, if such be his nature, comes to esteem the submissive and value their encounters much more highly then the ordinary, garden variety encounters with a partner with whom he is constrained to stay within the bounds of propriety.

There is created a kind of ironic tension that contrasts and therefore enhances and magnifies both the feelings of absolute power and domination and the feelings of highest regard and appreciation. These two seemingly incongruent feelings must exist together for the mental and spiritual health of both parties in what could truly be called a healthy relationship. The dominant willingly allows his dominate role to be governed and held subject to the part of him that cherishes the submissive. Were one who is of “normal character” (meaning one who is fit to roam about freely as a contributing member of a civilized society) to do otherwise, it would violate his conscience and cause unbearable feelings of guilt and remorse that he will take great care to avoid. It is here that the line is drawn that separates healthy sexual activity between consenting adults and the unacceptable, criminal behavior of the psychopath.

Please share your thoughts on this.

1-Welcome
2-You're gonna get killed on this. It smacks a bit too much of "One Twue Wayism" in that you use absolutes such as essential, must, necessity as well as a vague implication that this is the one proper way things should be done. I got newzzzz for ya Spanky, BDSM is anarchy. There is no one right way/wrong way-there is only that which works for the parties involved.
3-You last paragraph pretty much says all sadists are sociopaths and psychos. Are you really really sure it's the wisest move to accuse people who get off on hurting others of those traits? ;-)
And it's flat out wrong. I love her. But I'll hurt her. Badly. And get off on it.
Now whether I'm fit for walking around with other humans is a debate (And has long been one, with friends, exes, currents, law enforcement([8D]) etc...
4-Personally, and this is just me, I like reading stuff that's raw, real. Straight from the heart sorta stuff. I read intellectual crap like this and my first knee jerk response is that someone is trying to impress others, not with who and what they are, but what they claim to know.
And I'm glad I read onward. There's some good stuff in there, especially re the power exchange dynamic.
Lose the smarts. Drop the pretenses. Be real and folk may just like ya quite fine.
I mean shit, look at me. I'm a full scale lunatic and there's enough wingnuts in these here parts I've even found a friend or three :-)
4-And far and away the most important point...
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

DON'T LEARN FROM PORN.


Whaaaaaaaa? There goes 80% of my inspiration! Shit. Fuck. Anyone got one of those bright yellow Domming for Dummies books? Cause I'm gonna need it baaaaaaaad.

Kana heads off to the corner to sulk and pout cuz some big blue and purple (Like a bruise) meanie just took his numero uno toy




littlewonder -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 7:41:42 AM)

If you suck at vanilla relationships you will suck at bdsm ones.





OsideGirl -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 8:39:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Salinedion

Man, get that dominant/dominate thing right. It's like waving a red flag in front of a bull to the women here.


That was driving me to distraction.

Everyone above me had really good words of wisdom and I agree with Kana regarding one twue wayism and your view on sadism:

quote:

ORIGINAL: im2good2u
Unlike a true sadist, it is essential to the dominate's enjoyment that the submissive derive pleasure from the encounter.


1) A true sadist has nothing to do with D/s or BDSM. I can guarantee that every sadist here cares about their submissive and if their submissive was truly distressed, they would stop and provide care.

2) As a submissive, there are absolutely times when I don't derive pleasure from what I've been told to do. Being submissive is easy when it's something you enjoy doing, real submission happens when you get to things you don't like doing.

3) You equate D/s with BDSM acts, when that's not really what it is. There are people that engage in D/s that never engage in BDSM and there are people that engage in BDSM and never engage in D/s.

4) For the love of God, dominate is a verb, dominant is an adjective (and in our case a noun).




OttersSwim -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 9:01:26 AM)

You know....one the other hand...

The OP, while clearly a bit deluded and fantasyesque, has done -some- research and reading. Hell, who among us didn't make a gaffe or two when we were blisteringly new? I know I did - I made the Dominant vs. Dominate mistake in my first post here.

So OP, I will encourage you to take the words here with a grain of good humor and really get into your local community - go to munches, clubs, events. There is something going on in most places.

Check out Fetlife.com where you can do searches based on your location and find events and munches, clubs, and other kinky people. :)





LadyHibiscus -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 9:46:17 AM)

I am NOT PLEASED at the David Cassidy earworm. Or whoever the hell it was. I am working hard to replace it with last's weeks, the theme to Supergran. Billy Connolly FTW.





OsideGirl -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 9:49:41 AM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8ZO56B4n8c




mnottertail -> RE: Cherish is the word I use to describe . . . (9/21/2012 9:49:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am NOT PLEASED at the David Cassidy earworm. Or whoever the hell it was. I am working hard to replace it with last's weeks, the theme to Supergran. Billy Connolly FTW.




Musically challenged? 


The Association.




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