Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Me and Masochism


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Me and Masochism Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 9:41:17 AM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		I'm hoping that I'm posting this in the right area. . .if not, mea culpa and I'm sure it will be moved to a more appropriate area.

I'd like to preface this post with a few things just to make my position more clear to the readers.
1) I identify as a dominant with masochistic tendencies.
2) In my masochism, I do *NOT* represent it as any type of service to anyone (but myself.) I'm not "subbing" for anyone nor do I realistically think that the top is getting too much out of a session with me. It is what it is.
3) I'm dealing strictly with PHYSICAL masochism.

Modes of masochism: I think the belief du jour is that a masocist is someone that enjoys pain/derives enjoyment arousal from pain. Also, from what I read ans see, the ultimate goal seems to move toward some kind of sexual gratification. As I see submissives play the part of a masocist, I see that they are either taking pain for their tops/masters/mistresses or that they are trying to push and expand on their pain thresholds. For me, it is neither. For me, it is a means to an end. The end is a release (mental) and contentment. To elaborate, I'm the type of person that holds things inside and have found that taking pain allows me to let go of some of those things. So I do not enjoy the pain qua pain. I enjoy the fact that the pain allows me to let go of some of my internal turmoil. When the lashes come, I'm NOT thinking: "Ohhhhhhhh, that felt soooo good! I'm aroused!" It brings me to a place of inner peace. . .a place where I do my heaviest introspection. I'm in the cuffs for no one but myself. For the self identifying masochists, do any of you get more out of it than just the physical sensations? Do you think that you fall into a category of masochism that really doesn't fall into the "traditional" definition?


Gender of the top: I have not bottomed for a man in many many years. I think that the reason is, in *MY* experience (I'm not going to make a generalization here. . .just relating my personal experiences.) The males, even though they claim to listen to and understand my wants and needs, seem to NEED to infuse the session with sexual under and overtones. My needs are very simple (I think they are. . most will beg to differ) I need sharp intense pain (whips, sigle tails, dragon's tails/tongues, needles and razors), minimal to no dialog, only regions of my body to be engaged in play are my back, buttocks, and back of the tighs, and no aftercare. Dialog, or making the session sexual will defeat the whole purpose of my bottoming. The women seem more apt to listen and to be able to deliver what I want and need. They don't try to sneak a clamp or two on my nipples. . .or try to shove something up my orifices. I'm not suggesting that there isn't a man out there that can fulfill this. . .I just haven't met him. I know and can concede the fact that I'm not an ideal bottom. For those masochist that seek pain for other than sexual gratification, do you find one gender more compatible to you needs?

Intensity:One of the problems that I encounter in play is that I need INTENSITY INTENSITY INTENSITY. During the negotiation process, I often tell the top that it is okay to draw blood on the first lash. I do not need a ramp up (I prefer that there isn't a ramp up.) A lot of people find that this "throws them off." Also, I've had several people stop the session within minutes because they say that what they have already done to me is something that they conclude the session with (marks and intensity) and they didn't know where to take the session. Do other masochists run into similar types of situations?I've personally never played with a "masochist-only" type bottom, generally they have been submissive as well. I know it would get on my nerves to play with someone like me. LOL

I have a lot more to say. . .but I'm sure this topic got old 10 minutes ago.

I know the questions have been geared toward other masochists, but I welcome input and comments from everyone.

Cheers!

Jules

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 10:00:04 AM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Jules,

I am a total NON masochist personally. I hate pain. *However*, I have a really strong sadistic streak, especially for mental torture. When I was first learning everything, sadist was my favorite way to play. I still am allowed to excercise it from time to time, as long as I find a willing person ('cause Master is less of masochist than I am, lol).



_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 10:16:30 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		This is really interesting to me as I'm a masochist with a huge problem with self-injury, I identify with some of this but for odd reasons.

quote:


For me, it is neither. For me, it is a means to an end. The end is a release (mental) and contentment....It brings me to a place of inner peace. . .a place where I do my heaviest introspection.


This is something like what self-inflicted pain does for me and what I'm trying hard to -avoid- in my masochism with others.

I am someone who hurts herself during bouts of deep depression and mental ickyness, and I think somewhere along that line pain became associated with that feeling of relief and goodness. To that end, I've found that now, after years of self-injury, I actually enjoy the pain because it stimulates that sense of mental rightness.

Still, I'm trying hard to stop the self-injury, so I work hard on placing the pain stimulations I enjoy in a totally different setting. I've been working with my partner to place pain in a sexual/sexualized context so I can begin to associate the rightness with the sexual release that accompanies the pain. I don't want to -stop- enjoying pain, but I want to teach my body that it isn't pain alone that means rightness. I've been trying to do this for several years, though, and it's showing no signs of working, though.

quote:


One of the problems that I encounter in play is that I need INTENSITY INTENSITY INTENSITY. During the negotiation process, I often tell the top that it is okay to draw blood on the first lash. I do not need a ramp up (I prefer that there isn't a ramp up.)


This is the way I am as well, again because sharp pain instantly triggers whatever chemicals make me feel ok. I'm trying to get away from this, too. Basically, my partner and I are =trying= to sexualize my masochism so that it becomes -just- a means of sexual fufilment and -not- a coping strategy for depression.

This isn't to say that I am -not- a masochist. Regarldess of the way it came about, I now enjoy the physical sensations of pain. I would be very unhappy without any sort of pain play, and draw great pleasure from the sensations.

Uh, yeah, probably too much information and all that. Still, I wonder at how often self-injurers are or become masochists, and how common all this is. It was a large worry for me when I began experamenting with BDSM- that the pain there was simply replacing self-inflicted pain. ~shrug~

Sorry for the frankness, but, well, it applies and it's not something I'm exactly secretive about anyway.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to EStrict)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 10:34:59 AM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		hiya E *STRICT* (see? I got it right this time!)

I've seen many many talented submissive tops. I've never bottomed for one, but I wonder if they would feel uncomfortable topping a dominant. . . .

Just a thought.

Jules

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

(in reply to EStrict)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 10:40:08 AM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		Peverse,

I can relate as well. . .I didn't go into the minutae of why I think I'm a masochist. . .I just left it as "non-sexual reasons." Although I'm not a "cutter", I know a few people that are and I don't know if they identify as being a masochist per se. . .and don't know if they would get out of it much if someone else was administering the pain. For the ones that I have spoken to. . .it is a deeply personal and solitary thing.

I have never thought of "conditioning" myself to tying my need for pain to sexual fulfilment. . .very interesting. How is that coming along? Do you think it is working? Do you think that the "transfer" somehow makes the expression for your need for pain a healthier one? I'm very interested to know.

Smoochies

Jules

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 10:48:15 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Very interesting post Jules.

You share a need with many of the Eastern cultures. Most recently the Hindu festival of Thaipusam occurred in Batu Caves outside Kuala Lumpur. The penitents (worshipers asking for forgiveness) come to apologize to Lord Muruga for their sins. The focus of this penitence is an act of kavadi, which is a contribution to Muruga. This contribution can come in the form of shaving off one's hair and wearing flowers. But most go much farther, performing acts of self-mutilation to show their apologies and gain favor with the gods. They pierce their skin with spikes, often attaching heavy fruits or small pots of milk to add to the pain. Some pierce their tongues and cheeks, too, with trident-shaped skewers. The really devout, though wear circular frames decorated with peacock feathers, flowers and pictures of gods, which they attach to their backs and chests with hooked chains. It's hard to believe the exertion they expend walking eight miles carrying these frames (which can weigh over 100 pounds), with hooks through their skin, in excruciating heat. None of their activities are in a sexual context. All experience some kind of cathartic cleansing and inner peace after completion of their self inflicted ordeal.

I have attended ceremonies were Fakir Musafar and his followers demonstrate ritualistic piercing. Speaking with these people they've made me aware of another level of 'being' that can not be described to anyone who hasn't experienced it. I believe them and take them for their word for I have no desire to experience what I've witnessed.

The physiology of the brain is not nearly understood. The release of endorphins that is often discussed in the contest of BDSM is considered a starting point to some not a end goal. They use the pain to achieve a deeper spiritual self awareness. And most do not associated it in any sexual context. Maybe it is what you are experiencing.

They also share your post experience sentiment of feeling relieved and have no need for any type of 'after-care'. Amazingly to me, their bodies don't tend to need much if any, so their psyche or mind must not require any either.

Congratulations on being so in-tuned with you needs. I'm not surprised that male Doms or Masters can not disassociate the whipping, caning, and strapping of a naked and bound female bottom and thighs, outside a sexual context. That's a difficult image to resist. (lol) Even more then most, you need to have dialog and communication with your facilitator, and they must have enough confidence to take the session in the direction you need it to go.

I don't think you are unique in your needs, but you may be rare in that you know "why" you need - and have a goal.

Good for you!

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 11:36:06 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessJules
I have never thought of "conditioning" myself to tying my need for pain to sexual fulfilment. . .very interesting. How is that coming along? Do you think it is working? Do you think that the "transfer" somehow makes the expression for your need for pain a healthier one? I'm very interested to know.

Smoochies

Jules


Yes and no. I enjoy it a lot more with sexual connotations now :). I still haven;'t stopped the other stuff yet though.

I don't know whether I think it's healther per ce. I mean, I could make the argument that all types of masochism are unhealthy. I think the key is that it stops becoming a coping strategy for internal pain. I don't think that causing bodily harm is a healthy way of resolving mental turmoil. So to that end, I figure that if I tie the "pain good" bit to the "sex" bit I'll eventually give it up in the other sense.

It doesn't seem to be working, though, sadly. At least, though, this way I feel like I -haven't- just move self-destruction into another realm. I figure that with the inclusion of another part who is looking out for me I may get hurt, but I won't get damanged, and my mental state won't fall to bits.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 1:48:28 PM   
mtsilence


Posts: 33
Joined: 8/29/2004
Status: offline 		I am not a masochist. Neither in the modern usage of the word nor in the way it described what Leopold Ritter von Sacher-Masoch actually did with his life. I am not into humiliation or punishment these are not where I gain my sense of self or sense of inner peace. However, on more then one occasion I have experiences a release that takes me beyond my physical limits. The flogger may be hitting my body and my body may be responding, but I seem to be elsewhere. I can honestly say that when I have had an intense scene I come down floating and end in deep repose. I am totally at peace and feel more balanced. I have been exploring this occurrence trying to determine why that is, so far the only truism that seems to fit is that it is a very spiritual release and reconnection process. This idea seems to be supported, but the traditions of certain Shaman, in connecting with the spiritual plane. The idea that through physical 'pain' we can emerge into some other awareness is a common thread around the world.

That you are finding a release or the ability to let go of things suggests a similar process. That you require intensity is your personal nature. If you had a partner whom you regularly traded cathartic beatings with, they might be able to move beyond their own sexual urges, regardless of gender. I think it is more in a mind set then in actually needing sexual release. Far too many seem to think a great scene includes some sort of sexual release; however, some of my most intense scenes have had NO sexual context what so ever. They were sensual do not get me wrong, but the release was internal and not something, that dealt with orgasm in the normal understanding of the word.

I would have to agree with Mercnbeth, that I


I don't think you are unique in your needs, but you may be rare in that you know "why" you need - and have a goal.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 2:06:48 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I've seen many many talented submissive tops. I've never bottomed for one, but I wonder if they would feel uncomfortable topping a dominant. . . .

Just a thought.


Hi Jules,

I can't speak for others, but many of the women I played with as a sadist were dominant to the men in their lives. Since I consider myself an equal to any woman, that wasn't an issue one way or another....

::winks:: and you can call me Sandy,, then you will always know it's me not him :)

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 2:40:37 PM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		Mercnbeth,

That was a VERY insightful post to me. In this age where people are quit to want to "categorize" everyone else, I've been reluctant to bring this up simply because people would dismiss it as:"You're just a switch." or "You probably just need some sessions with a therapist."
I have honestly never encountered something that could "relate" to the why and how I need physical pain. From what you describe. . .there *are* people out there that operate in a siminalr fashion.
As far as working with male tops. . .I figured that when we do negotiate the scene, they would be too put off by my list of demands and needs to be turned on. I'm basically using them as a "tool". . .but I guess I was misguided to think that ;)

Thanks for that information. It is something I can pass on to someone like me. . .

Jules

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 2:44:09 PM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline
quote:

I enjoy it a lot more with sexual connotations now :).


That is encouraging!
I personally do not self mutilate simply because in my mind. . .it takes away from the intensity aspect.
And I must say that I have to give you kudos for working through all of that and thinking of viable alternatives. Now if I can turn my need for pain into say. . .the need to crochet a scarf. . . . . .

Jules

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 2:58:20 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		That was an intereesting post.

Some ideas that popped in my head -- a gay male sadist ought to be able to top you without the sexual overtones. But then again, seems like ladies are more sadistic than guys anyway, especially when they get to beat another gal.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 3:21:09 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessJules

That is encouraging!
I personally do not self mutilate simply because in my mind. . .it takes away from the intensity aspect.
And I must say that I have to give you kudos for working through all of that and thinking of viable alternatives.


Hrm. Interesting. I think that I've never actually been able to achieve the intensity I get with myself with anyone else. Could be, though, that I've never really been with a sadist. Who knows.

quote:


Now if I can turn my need for pain into say. . .the need to crochet a scarf. . . . . .

Jules


I don't know. Would you really be happier without it? I think this part is tied up in my role as submissive partner. I think my enjoyment of pain enhances that for both my partners and myself, and wouldn't want to lose -all- of it. Just the cruddy bits.



_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 4:07:46 PM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		to happy:
quote:

Some ideas that popped in my head -- a gay male sadist ought to be able to top you without the sexual overtones.


I've actually thought about that. . .I just really haven't had the opportunity to try that idea out.

Perverse:
quote:

Would you really be happier without it?

Ya know Sis, prolly not. I might find myself looking at those crochet/knitting needles thinking. . ."Someone could *really* do something to me with these. . ."

Jules

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/4/2004 5:23:32 PM   
subbiejenn


Posts: 631
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline 		Jules
It's funny i have never seen someone explain masochism like this before and i was thinking i was a mental case!

i enjoy pain for a few reasons, i am submissive so pleasing the Dom is a plus for me. i do get some sexual gradification from it but i also hold a lot of things in and its a release for me. i have to admit i do not like "as much" pain as you do *grins* but its very much a emotional release.

i have this Mentor/Teacher who is truly sadistic and loves to give me pain and see me cry. Most of the time the tears are not coming from the pain but from all my emotions coming out. Afterwards i always have this weird sense of peace.

i can not relate to everything you wrote here but i can relate to how it is a release and the inner peace.

Be Well
~jenn~


_____________________________

~Subspace is my perfect paradise vacation from busy-mind... blessed be to the Dominant who can stamp my ticket there.~

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/5/2004 9:31:17 AM   
Kwix


Posts: 12
Joined: 10/26/2004
Status: offline 		pardon me, wrong place.

< Message edited by Kwix -- 11/5/2004 9:32:21 AM >

(in reply to subbiejenn)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/5/2004 9:38:09 AM   
srahfox


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline 		I thought about this all night and couldn't figure out why. Someone about your post caught me even though I do mix my pain with sex. I just couldn't figure it out. Then it hit me. That's the same effect I get from piercing and tattoing. I certainly don't enjoy or get off on it while it's happening. yet afterward the release is unbelievable. Whenever I get wound up tight and can't stand in, I go get a tattoo or piercing and suddenly.. all's well. I have friends that have the same reaction to it. I wouldn't change, if it works for you I don't think there's a good substitute.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by srahfox -- 11/5/2004 9:45:24 AM >

(in reply to Kwix)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/5/2004 10:18:44 AM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		It's good to find people who experience the same things. For me. . .I was thinking: "Geez, I feel the need to seek out pain, yet, it seems that the only "valid" reason for doing so is for sexual gratification. . .I must be weird." And I find that others do as well!
I think the "theraputic" aspect of pain isn't talked about much. Afterall, most people tend to seek CURES for it or want it ALLEVIATED. I'm glad that I'm not the only one.

Jules

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

(in reply to srahfox)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/5/2004 10:42:01 AM   
Destinysskeins


Posts: 267
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings,

No, i certainly don't believe that You're "weird" or alone in Your desires. i do believe that Your understanding of these desires within Yourself is uncommon and very healthy. Denying what release works for You and refraining from utilizing these coping techniques is much more unhealthy in my opinion. That being said, i do believe that a happy medium should be sought after and ideally attained. There are times that redirection is not desirable and the objects/situations/persons that draw these ill feelings from You should be the subject of Your displeasure/ire/etc. i say this because it is something that i have/do personally deal with in my own life. Being an extremely forgiving and patient person there are times that i either displace my emotions on other objects/situations/persons (at times myself) or attempt to squelch these feelings (i find this generally only works for a time until the proverbial shit hits the fan). Oftentimes, i have found that a profound period of time spent in masochistic encounters or at other times simply subspace frees me of these self placed inhibitions and allows me to release the tension that has built up within me. While these activities do have a cleansing effect on me it does nothing to actually alleviate the situations which generated the feelings in the first place. So, i've had to learn/still learning to direct these energies where they need to be at the appropriate times.

Well wishes

(in reply to GoddessJules)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Me and Masochism - 11/5/2004 11:07:55 AM   
srahfox


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline 		Usually for me there isn't a exact thing I could put my finger on and say, yep, that's the problem. It's usually months of build up. Nothing else really seems to work the same. A lot of die hard tattoo fans say the same. I don't think most of them realize it at the time. I have one friend who I know does understand it. I think that's why everyone says if you get one, you'll get more. I just don't think people know that's what they are doing.

(in reply to Destinysskeins)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Me and Masochism Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094