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RE: Grade the Debate - 10/10/2012 3:19:37 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
Made in America is Made in America. It isn't a multiple choice question. Are Hondas and Toyotas made in America? Yeah that plants that are here are........Do I wish and hope that American companies take their market share? Yes. Would I support incentives to push this along...yes as well.


Why do you hate your fellow American workers? You would rather see them lose their jobs? Why?

It is a multiple choice question. How do you define "made in America?" Go back to the screw shop I asked about. All the blanks are made overseas and the threads are cut in America. According to the rules, that product can be labelled, "Made in America." The final machining being the only thing done "in America." Does that qualify? What about a Dodge Charger, where final assembly is in Canada?

Can you really not see how those things have some American workers involved, but it's entirely possible that the American workers taking part in the production is significantly less than foreign workers?

quote:

Sorry, you seem to hate America or Americans. Like many Conservatives you have a problem with vast amounts of people that live and work here. Just the general tone of your comments.


Where the fuck do you get that shit?

quote:

Good Citizens? It all goes back to asking mr walton. how much is enough? How much do you need so that you feel good. I say, that is where good citizenship comes in. Looking out after your community and your country. Did they do that? Hell the fuck no. Did jack welsh? Hell the fuck no. Steve Jobs? Hell the fuck no. Course they will be the first with hand over their heart, bible in hand.....god bless america....


Isn't it in the best interest of Americans to provide them with inexpensive stuff? Not a single person was forced into buying stuff from WalMart. No one *has* to buy stuff made overseas. The choice has clearly been made, though. People want stuff as cheap as they can possibly get it. WalMart, Big Lots, Dollar General/Store, Target, etc. all cater to the demands of consumers with low cost stuff. And, the consumer consumes. You're blaming business for meeting the demands of consumers. Not doing that is pretty stupid, business-wise.

I can also pretty much guarantee you that if the demand for American Made products ever kicks in, WalMart will be one of the first to ramp up their product selections to meet that demand.

quote:

American Manufacturing can compete with anyone. When, Big When,,,,it is a level playing field. Take the LG products that you see everywhere now. Korean. How much subsidy do you think they get from the Korean gov't. You think they produce better than Whirlpool in Ohio? Bullshit. That is why when you talk about no gov't interference in business it is suicidal. Its like playing 1950's football rules with little equipment in todays game. Its also why Mitt Romney isn't good for America today. He knows the old rules. Plays them. They don't work today. His generations time has come and gone.


I have no idea how much the Korean government kicks in to LG. Not a clue. Enlighten me. There used to be products that were better than Whirlpool in ways. I was shocked - this is an aside- and aghast when I found out that Whirlpool no longer makes Kenmore laundry machines. That's LG now. LG also makes some of the Kenmore refrigerators, too. That actually used to be a source of pride when buying a Kenmore, especially a dishwasher or washer/dryer, in Ohio.

I disagree that American manufacturing can compete with anyone in any area. I would agree wholeheartedly, that quality of our stuff is generally as good or better than foreign stuff for the price. That has never been a complaint of mine. However, when you start looking at the levels of quality necessary, that's where things start to get chippy. I'm not going to go out and spend twice as much or even three times as much for something that the cheap piece of crap is good enough.

Are Union members being "Good Citizens" when they fail to ratify new negotiations that include small changes in their pay/benefits schedules if it means that some of their fellow Union members end up getting fired?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 241
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/10/2012 3:21:29 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, I havent got that keyboard thing worked out, as you are aware.  Didnt know about the e on the end.  Hell, I can't even spell in English language often.


The macron and schwa aren't normally on a regular keymap, but if you're a Dvorak guy, I could send you my layout.

There's usually a lax, short E on the end if it would be monosyllabic otherwise, IIRC.

Pretty good to peg the right word anyway, though.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 242
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/10/2012 3:25:51 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
And, Norway gets nothing out of this?

Good karma. I'm not sure being greedy about that is a vice.
Let's be clear: this is a pension fund, so future generations will indeed get something out of it, though probably not the current generation of politicians. Ethical conduct has primacy. Preserving a good future is secondary. Earning money is third, and a consequence of preserving a good future. Obviously, we turn a profit. We just don't take that profit out of the system, so to speak. But we'll take a loss over poor ethics, and have done so in the past.


That is just good business, IMO. Very commendable that there is a commitment to strong ethics. Wish there was more of it here.

quote:

With a bit of creative twisting, one can always ascribe selfish motives, and usually greedy ones, but that mostly comes down to perspective. When discussing real motivators, however, intent matters.
Greed isn't in evidence here in any meaningful sense.


Thank you for answering the question that MN failed to answer.

ETA: Comparing the paycheck of the POTUS to that of our PM, we see that the POTUS earns about 20 times the typical net annual household income there, while our PM earns about 1.5 times the typical net annual household income here. The PM sets his own paycheck, for all intents and purposes. If he wanted more, he would have more. If this is greed, he's not very good at it.
quote:

Why are you even investing?

There's a future. We would like to keep it that way. And preferrably be in it.
quote:

Does your global seed vault (which is a very cool thing) contain non-GMO seed, and/or "heriloom" seed?

Of course.
Part of the reason why Monsanto bothered to pay part of it is precisely that this see vault means we can reseed the world if one of their experiments go crazy and wipe out unmodified crops. A snapshot of the current gene pool, as nature handed it to us, before we start to fuck it up. Even Monsanto can see the logic in that, or at least the massive lawsuit they would face in case of such an event. Of course, such a lawsuit wouldn't resolve before global food supply was down to supporting a few million people, so I figure they might also see that whole "surviving our own crap" angle to it.
For our sake, it mostly comes down to having the territory, the technology and the resources.
On all accounts: check. Svalbard has the benefit of being inherently too cold for the refrigeration to critically fail, being really inaccessible to anyone with an interest in putting a dent in the place, and us already having freed up a damn solid facility about the time the idea popped up. I would've preferred to have some sort of airship backup to deal with meteor strikes, too, but reseeding might not even be possible if that happens (and there would be no humans around to initiate the process, anyway). Still, as you say, a very cool thing.
IWYW,
— Aswad.


The main reason i asked about non-GMO and heirloom seeds was because of Monsanto's being part of it. Glad those are unfounded concerns.

I want to thank you, again, Aswad. Regardless of our political belief differences, you always come off as respectful. That rates very high with me.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 243
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/10/2012 3:30:44 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
No, you lie again.  You are demonstrably factless, and actually repugnantly illogical, with nothing but smears  and innuendo, and simpletonion jingos.  But all of it floccinaucinihilipilification.


You can make all the claims you want. I posted the entire give and take that led to this disagreement. All you do is claim I lie.

<snore>

quote:

I answered the question, some erudite knowledge and experience behind it.


And when pressed for that knowledge and experience, you gave me, what? Yep. You dispensed with bullshit and turned the burden back onto me.

quote:

Issuing this impugning challenge leaves no doubt that you have the extravagant claim that all countries are run by greed and only by greed governmentally.
At that I replied:
Oh, lay your special wisdom on us, here...you have innuendo, and great swaths of jingo, but no actual real and credible facts in evidence.
So, how about you tell?  You are the extravagant and sincerely doubtful claimant.
And knowing that Aswad is a native Norwegian, he has answered most artfully and unequivocally my claim that the country of Norway (a socio-democratic country) is run overarchingly on good neighbor-good people principals.  I, being of somewhat lesser mein, am telling you that he put the lie to your extravagant and as usual untutored claims.
And, I issued a clear challenge to you to prove them, not some smarmy innuendo full of rancid air and impudent ignorance.


Actually, Aswad came in and agreed with you. When pressed for how that is, he ... wait for it ... answered the questions. OMFG!!! Can you believe that?!?!?!?

quote:

So, at best your mumblings are a laughingstock, at least shown to be less than anywhere near correct in your inept diatribe. 


I state again, <snore>


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 244
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/11/2012 5:50:57 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

That is just good business, IMO. Very commendable that there is a commitment to strong ethics. Wish there was more of it here.


Precisely.

And good business isn't necessarily greed, which- among other things- tends to have a shorter time scale.

If you want to start up something that's going to give you an immense payoff in fifty years time, I'm not going to begrudge you when you reap your just rewards fifty years down the line. But when your kid inherits and starts pissing on everything you built and uses it to make life suck for everyone that helped you build it, just so he can "have it all, right now, dammit!", then we're getting well into greed territory. That's when things start going to hell. Or, at least, one example of such. Note that I'm not saying the kid can't do it, or that his inheritance should be stripped, or that you can't leave everything to him, just that it is the point where the trainwreck starts building.

quote:

The main reason i asked about non-GMO and heirloom seeds was because of Monsanto's being part of it. Glad those are unfounded concerns.


We are not naïve enough to forget Monsanto's history.

quote:

I want to thank you, again, Aswad. Regardless of our political belief differences, you always come off as respectful. That rates very high with me.


You're welcome, and thank you for the compliment.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 245
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/11/2012 6:03:33 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		Absolutely, that is why I broadened my definition to include all those activities. Why is it so hard to read what I said.......

I get it from your general tone of derision about anyone that really isn't "like" you.

Why is it in the best interest of Americans to get the most inexpensive products offered? That only holds water if if you assume that it is in the best interest of Americans to never increase their pay. Which makes sense only if you aren't going to try and increase margins with price increases. Why does American Business today only think they can improve productivity and margins by removing workers and cutting benefits?

I know why Walmart went that direction. Straightup greed. They successfully drove many many small independent retailers out of business and then set themselves up to give shitty products and low prices. Just because the consumer buys the product doesn't confer satisfaction with that product. Two different things entirely.

Korean Susidies? Just go check the Whirlpool website. Plenty there. Subsidies, patent infringements. Why did Sears change players? Cause, simple lack of patriotism in the boardroom.

The Union thing again. If workers saw true support from the Boardroom for the long term there would be no need for unions. However, that ain't the case is it.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 246
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/11/2012 6:39:30 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
No, you lie again.  You are demonstrably factless, and actually repugnantly illogical, with nothing but smears  and innuendo, and simpletonion jingos.  But all of it floccinaucinihilipilification.


You can make all the claims you want. I posted the entire give and take that led to this disagreement. All you do is claim I lie.

<snore>



Yeah, I invented the internet, you make extravagant and profoundly imbecilic claims. are dismissed out of hand, then further beat in the head with a lead pipe, and are now portraying yourself as a hero of the Soviet Union. 

Yawn snore cough and scratch my nuts.  So rightwing debate is full of  innuendo, impugnment, lies and untutored ideological asswipe, plainly wrong and containing less than amoeba intellect.

The whale is undoubtably one of the largest mammals alive today.

Solid concrete is a lighter than air dirigible.  Very telling. Interesting. 



 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 247
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/11/2012 1:53:11 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
Absolutely, that is why I broadened my definition to include all those activities. Why is it so hard to read what I said.......
I get it from your general tone of derision about anyone that really isn't "like" you.


Yeah, SternSkipper and Aswad have really been all over me about my derision. Tweakabelle, too. There are only a few on here that do not deserve respect, as they don't give it. Those people are the only ones I'll deride.

quote:

Why is it in the best interest of Americans to get the most inexpensive products offered?


Unless people have been coerced into buying the most inexpensive products, I'd say that the results are that Americans, in general, feel it is in their best interests to get products as inexpensively as possible. There are limits, though (ie, Yugo's).


quote:

That only holds water if if you assume that it is in the best interest of Americans to never increase their pay. Which makes sense only if you aren't going to try and increase margins with price increases. Why does American Business today only think they can improve productivity and margins by removing workers and cutting benefits?


Yeah, because no business is out spending capital on more efficient machines or processes that are more efficient. That would just be silly!

quote:

I know why Walmart went that direction. Straightup greed. They successfully drove many many small independent retailers out of business and then set themselves up to give shitty products and low prices. Just because the consumer buys the product doesn't confer satisfaction with that product. Two different things entirely.


Your last two statements are correct, except that continuing to purchase shitty products on the cheap (cheap doesn't equal inexpensive in book), is conferring satisfaction with that product at that price. Unless, as stated before, people are forced into buying the cheap stuff.

quote:

Korean Susidies? Just go check the Whirlpool website. Plenty there. Subsidies, patent infringements. Why did Sears change players? Cause, simple lack of patriotism in the boardroom.


Okay, so you're sending me off to do your homework. Nice. Not going to happen, though.

I don't know why Sears changed. And, unless you are privy to that boardroom negotiation, you're talking out of your ass again.

quote:

The Union thing again. If workers saw true support from the Boardroom for the long term there would be no need for unions. However, that ain't the case is it.


Ah, nice response. Didn't answer the question, but nice response.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 248
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/11/2012 1:54:34 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
No, you lie again.  You are demonstrably factless, and actually repugnantly illogical, with nothing but smears  and innuendo, and simpletonion jingos.  But all of it floccinaucinihilipilification.

You can make all the claims you want. I posted the entire give and take that led to this disagreement. All you do is claim I lie.
<snore>

Yeah, I invented the internet, you make extravagant and profoundly imbecilic claims. are dismissed out of hand, then further beat in the head with a lead pipe, and are now portraying yourself as a hero of the Soviet Union. 
Yawn snore cough and scratch my nuts.  So rightwing debate is full of  innuendo, impugnment, lies and untutored ideological asswipe, plainly wrong and containing less than amoeba intellect.
The whale is undoubtably one of the largest mammals alive today.
Solid concrete is a lighter than air dirigible.  Very telling. Interesting. 


It's amazing how much you post that has absolutely nothing to do with anything.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 249
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/11/2012 2:38:14 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Nowhere what you do, pal.  You have yet to post anything to do with anything to date.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 250
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/11/2012 2:41:33 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		After the debate comedian Dennis Miller said; "The night janitor at Big Ben can't clean a clock like Mitt Romney can."

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 251
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/11/2012 7:28:22 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Nowhere what you do, pal. 


Wow. That's, um, fucked up. That's not even channeling Yoda. WTF is that?!?

quote:

You have yet to post anything to do with anything to date.


MN: "Neither do you!"

LMAO!!




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 252
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/12/2012 7:03:54 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		Dennis Miller? I don't even think he is American. How can you get on National TV and not know anything about Football..

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 253
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/12/2012 7:08:09 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		LMAO DYB....bein a steelers fan and a Brit, I thought that was excellent:)

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(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
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(•_•)
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Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 254
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/12/2012 7:14:05 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		No, you seem to deride most of the population of the US. Not sure why. Just a curious thing from someone proclaiming to love America. Or is it that you just hate Americans and love America?

Shitty answer......Why is it good for Americans to buy the most inexpensive product.

So then you are saying that they remove workers for other reasons? Why?

No, not at all. Buying a product or service doesn't automatically confer satisfaction. If that was the case there would be no reason for Satisfaction Survey's , no? As well, plenty other things go into the buying decision. Satisfaction not being one of them.

Didn't think you would. That would mean the unraveling of everything you stand for.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 255
RE: Grade the Debate - 10/12/2012 7:18:11 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
Dennis Miller? I don't even think he is American. How can you get on National TV and not know anything about Football..


He knows stuff about football. Not much, but some. He tried to make himself sound more football-savvy than he was. He also tried to use his use of wordiness to prove it. I did not like Dennis Miller on MNF.

That being said, football knowledge certainly isn't the only requirement of being an announcer. Jon Gruden is incredibly knowledgeable when it comes to football. He lacks the knowledge to know that blowing smoke up everyone's rears, or making every player on the field one of the best at his position is ridiculous on all fronts. Mike Tirico, while football knowledgeable, is much less so than Jaworski, who was most recently removed from the booth. "Jaws," though a Philadelphia Eagle, had my respect for his knowledge and his analysis. I wouldn't be surprised if he asked to be removed from the booth before he decked Gruden for the syrupy comments about any player that makes any play, mundane or incredible.

I have to admit I don't actually recall Rush Limbaugh on MNF. It's entirely possible that Dennis Miller may not have been the worst MNF announcer ever.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 256
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