Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves?

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Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/5/2012 6:19:53 AM

darkenchantments

Posts: 51
Joined: 10/3/2012
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It often seems to me, from browsing profiles and sometimes talking with people on the scene, that there is a double standard in operation for male and female subs/slaves. It often seems to me that a male, whether sub or slave, is expected to ask for nothing for himself, and be totally committed to serving his Domme or Mistress solely for her pleasure and benefit. If he asks for anything for himself, he is considered needy and greedy, and told he's not sub or slave mindset. And Kee-rist; don't mention wanting any play or sex - you will be blown straight out! I use the term Domme or Mistress since I have more experience here; but it may apply also to males serving males. You tell me!

But - you try approaching a female sub/slave with that kind of expectation! Not that I do; but take a look at their profiles, at least. I seem to see that they are pretty feisty creatures, who pretty freely tell prospective Dom/mes that they will need to have their act well together and toe the line if they're to have a snowball's chance in hell of getting their greedy little paws on them! And if she mentions she happens to be a sex maniac - I would rather imagine it wouldn't do her in-box any harm at all!

Now I know full well that females of all descriptions are in a minority in this ism - although not sure who compiles the statistics? And I suppose its down to male-female psychology maybe. But why the double standard? Why is it ok, as it seems to me, for a female sub/slave to make demands that no male would ever be allowed or expected to make?

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Post #: 1

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/5/2012 6:33:30 AM

DarkSteven

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I recently asked myself the same thing. I think it's due to two factors:

1. As you say, females have the advantage of numbers.
2. IMO, the men that are advised to not be so self-centered are way more fetish-oriented than females, to the point of objectification.
3. Again IMO, the female sub/slaves who are demanding tend to not post here. The male subs who are DO tend to post here. So there's some skew between unreasonable profiled subs being in a position to be given advice.

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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(in reply to darkenchantments)

Post #: 2

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/5/2012 7:06:28 AM

Rainwalker

Posts: 38
Joined: 10/3/2012
Status: offline

quote:

It often seems to me that a male, whether sub or slave, is expected to ask for nothing for himself, and be totally committed to serving his Domme or Mistress solely for her pleasure and benefit. If he asks for anything for himself, he is considered needy and greedy, and told he's not sub or slave mindset. And Kee-rist; don't mention wanting any play or sex - you will be blown straight out!

Your appraisal is very on for head gamers, internet domes and players, but in real life, especially real life with a history, your description is flawed.

(in reply to darkenchantments)

Post #: 3

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/5/2012 7:27:33 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

I think it's approach. Check out the recently locked thread in intros...

Men approach me as the person with the toys, and I should be satisfied with the chance to abuse them. Women approach me wanting to do things for me.

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(in reply to Rainwalker)

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RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/5/2012 7:45:46 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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I am feisty, and do expect him to have his act together, but do not present potentials with lists of demands, such as his appearance, what he will wear, and a script of what he will enjoy doing to me, lol. Or to use gender stereotypes - I wouldn't dream of giving input on what kind of car he will drive, how much he will earn, house, clothes, etc.

I was distressed when a Dom I was dating cooked for me and wouldn't let me help with the cleanup, beat me without allowing me to gratify him sexually, etc.

< Message edited by kalikshama -- 10/5/2012 7:47:54 AM >

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(in reply to darkenchantments)

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RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/5/2012 7:55:45 AM

cloudboy

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Joined: 12/14/2005
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There are very few men running around complaining about do-me femsubs.

(in reply to darkenchantments)

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RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/5/2012 10:06:07 AM

DNAHelicase

Posts: 115
Joined: 7/5/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

There are very few men running around complaining about do-me femsubs.

Yep, and that's because some male "doms" are only wearing that hat so they can get laid. They're more than happy to follow a female sub's list of demands to the T so they can get in her panties. I can't recall ever meeting a female dom who claims the title solely so she can use it as an excuse to have sex with hot, young men.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 7

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/5/2012 10:13:16 AM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DNAHelicase

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

There are very few men running around complaining about do-me femsubs.

Yep, and that's because some male "doms" are only wearing that hat so they can get laid. They're more than happy to follow a female sub's list of demands to the T so they can get in her panties. I can't recall ever meeting a female dom who claims the title solely so she can use it as an excuse to have sex with hot, young men.

Bingo!

(in reply to DNAHelicase)

Post #: 8

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/5/2012 11:43:54 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

I am a slave to Master. I am female. I never TELL Master what I want but I DO ask him for things. It's his choice on whether to give me what I ask for or not. Before I met Master and I was still seeking, yeah, I listed things I wanted in a partner but I DID NOT look at a Dom as a fetish delivery system. I wanted to get to know a man for his personality, not his fetishes.

Male subs on the other hand, write profiles that specifically are all about the fetishes they want. They never want to meet a woman for being who she is...a human female with diverse interests and views. Male subs most of the time, will basically take any woman who will give them what they want sexually and when they do get a woman, it's all about what they want. They don't ask, they TELL and if you don't give them what they want then all of a sudden you're a bitch and not a weal domme.

Does that answer your question?

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(in reply to darkenchantments)

Post #: 9

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/5/2012 12:16:34 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkenchantments
It often seems to me, from browsing profiles and sometimes talking with people on the scene, that there is a double standard in operation for male and female subs/slaves.

That's undoubtedly true but you need to be careful when mapping "standards" across the gender lines because things are not same-same.

It often seems to me that a male, whether sub or slave, is expected to ask for nothing for himself, and be totally committed to serving his Domme or Mistress solely for her pleasure and benefit.
I see that same expectation among various categories of BDSM. I interpret it as "lost in fantasy" no matter which side of the gender line it comes from. The bottom line is that real humans have real dreams, desires, hopes, aspirations and the like. If someone is hoping to build a sustainable long-term relationship while ignoring all of that then more power to them but I'm not personally going to be betting on a win. I have serious doubts that any of the Dommes I respect would agree that the sub or slave or whatever should not have any expectations, needs, hopes, dreams, desires, kinks, etc. All the ones I've ever met in person who actually had long-term functioning relationships seemed to care a great deal about these things... just as I do with Carol.

I personally think littlewonder came closest to the truth here. I think it's a question of approach which, in turn, gets to underlying mindset. I can't imagine any human wanting to be turned into a fetish delivery system... dom, sub, you name it. ACTUALLY objectifying people tends to get them annoyed. I'd be willing to bet good money that I could entertain a discussion with some Domme about the structure of a possible relationship without tripping those fetish delivery system red flags even though a portion of that discussion would involve "stuff I want out of her". That's because, when you get down to it, I see humans as humans, not as tools.

_____________________________

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officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to darkenchantments)

Post #: 10

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/5/2012 12:36:04 PM

myotherself

Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline

When I was single I was totally responsible for myself. I was the one in charge of finding the one that meshed with my needs the best, and that's what my profile reflected.

I have hard limits which are never going to change. For example, I need monogamy and I need a man who is 100% dominant and 100% heterosexual. I will never be bi, so I need a man who does not mind this. I don't see a problem with listing this on my profile - these are the absolutes around which the details can be woven.

Now that I'm owned, Master gets to approve my profile. If there's stuff in there he doesn't like, then it goes. He rather likes my profile as it is, even though it continues to make demands of people who contact me.

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk

(in reply to darkenchantments)

Post #: 11

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/5/2012 1:38:04 PM

Titaniya

Posts: 85
Joined: 9/9/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I am a slave to Master. I am female. I never TELL Master what I want but I DO ask him for things. It's his choice on whether to give me what I ask for or not. Before I met Master and I was still seeking, yeah, I listed things I wanted in a partner but I DID NOT look at a Dom as a fetish delivery system. I wanted to get to know a man for his personality, not his fetishes.

Male subs on the other hand, write profiles that specifically are all about the fetishes they want. They never want to meet a woman for being who she is...a human female with diverse interests and views. Male subs most of the time, will basically take any woman who will give them what they want sexually and when they do get a woman, it's all about what they want. They don't ask, they TELL and if you don't give them what they want then all of a sudden you're a bitch and not a weal domme.

I think this is a good summary of the dichotomy. I'd also wager that part of the double standard, if there is one, is a combination of supply and demand and which gender is doing which. Not only are male and female submissives generally different, but so are male and female dominants. Since most people tend to seek opposite-gender partners, this shows itself in the divide between Dommes/male subs and Doms/female subs and the behavior exhibited by both. And then, you add in supply and demand, meaning that females are probably going to be a little more choosy regardless of what their kink orientations are, simply because there are significantly fewer of them on the site.

Obviously, there are exceptions in every gender and kink orientation, but I do think there are patterns because of the way people are socialized.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 12

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/6/2012 6:25:33 AM

LillyBoPeep

Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline

There are some patterns for sure, but there are also a lot of double standards about the ways that female dominants are "allowed" to treat male subs. I think a lot of them are controlling bottoms, not subs, but there are the guys, like a friend of mine who is a freaking AWESOME msub, who meet the female dominants who want you to cut off your finger to even be considered, and if you don't, you're a do-me who should be blacklisted from the community.

There's a contingent of lady doms around here in NE who make comments like "i just want to hit someone until i don't feel angry anymore" -- WHAT? If a male dom said anything remotely like that, he'd have all sorts of "red flag! run away!" messages flying around the interwebs, correct? Why is it okay for women to say things like that?

There are a lot of strange double standards between MDom/fsub culture and FDom/msub culture, at least in what I've observed over the years I've been floating around the NE scene. There was one lady here who was just an awful person, bad attitude, hypocritical, obnoxious, and she was considered an "upstanding female Dominant." Who also blacklisted anyone who didn't jump through all her ridiculous hurdles.

So yes -- while the bulk of "male subs" I've met have really actually been controlling bottoms who want to be topped a certain, very specific way and with certain, very specific activities, the double standards there really aren't solely their fault.

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"Obey your Master." Metallica

(in reply to Titaniya)

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RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/6/2012 7:37:26 AM

plesto

Posts: 49
Joined: 7/2/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Male subs on the other hand, write profiles that specifically are all about the fetishes they want. They never want to meet a woman for being who she is...a human female with diverse interests and views. Male subs most of the time, will basically take any woman who will give them what they want sexually and when they do get a woman, it's all about what they want. They don't ask, they TELL and if you don't give them what they want then all of a sudden you're a bitch and not a weal domme.

I would ask you to take a look at a number of the female sub profiles on here then. Initially I was going to agree with your first statement until I did that. A lot of them seemed to be no better than the male sub ones, or had similar content, just slightly better written.

Back to the OP's question, yes there will be cases of double standards. However I think its just a case of how the numbers are imbalanced between genders + roles, and a carry over from everyday life where double standards still exist.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 14

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/6/2012 9:37:43 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I recently asked myself the same thing. I think it's due to two factors:

1. As you say, females have the advantage of numbers.
2. IMO, the men that are advised to not be so self-centered are way more fetish-oriented than females, to the point of objectification.
3. Again IMO, the female sub/slaves who are demanding tend to not post here. The male subs who are DO tend to post here. So there's some skew between unreasonable profiled subs being in a position to be given advice.

Kana sez, it's because women have the pussy

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 15

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/6/2012 10:02:11 AM

Alecta

Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
Kana sez, it's because women have the pussy

lol! There's that!

OP,
I don't think there is so much a double standard as a misconception. A double standard implies that male and female slaves are arbitrarily the same, and they are not, they are male and female first, and generally those who seek them out are also male and female first. The argument could also be made that what is explicitly asked of one type is generally assumed to come naturally to the other.

Men and women are wired differently. You will notice similar "double standards" with subs seeking Dom/mes where generally the boys want to be assured that they're getting into a sexual thing whereas the girls want to know that they will be in good hands non-sexually.

The other thing is, females in general have greater experiences and exposure to being victimised on internet dates. This, as you can imagine, contributes to the over all defensiveness of their profiles. In reality you will find that many of these "demanding female subs" are perfectly reasonable and pliant when properly engaged. I don't feel their "demanding" profiles are much different from male subs whose profiles read as angry rants against Pros and Fin scams.

As for a Dom/me's expectations of them being variable, that is because, I'm sure, the Dm/me in question responds differently to the genders. I'm certain an asexual Dom/me disinterested in the gender of their sub/slave would have the exact same standards and expectations for any applicant, male or female. Myself, because I see males and females as inherently different and embody different things, I expect and look for different things in male and female subs/slaves.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 16

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/6/2012 4:35:12 PM

AnimusRex

Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Kana sez, it's because women have the pussy

Kana is most wise.

Submissive men behave more like dominant men than they do submissive women. Submissive women behave more like dominant women than they do submissive men.

Of course there is a double standard. Our gender differences are larger than our power dynamic differences.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 17

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/6/2012 4:44:16 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

quote:

Submissive women behave more like dominant women than they do submissive men.

There are times when I wish that was true for me.

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Post #: 18

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/6/2012 5:27:50 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I think it's approach. Check out the recently locked thread in intros...

Men approach me as the person with the toys, and I should be satisfied with the chance to abuse them. Women approach me wanting to do things for me.

Well that is fucked up.

The women should realize you're the one with the toys as well.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 19

RE: Is there a double standard for m/f subs/slaves? - 10/6/2012 6:43:31 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

When I met The Man my profile was all about my real life, about things I cared about, and so on. My sex/play interests were summed up in one small sentence and it wasn't the focus of my profile. My pictures are never of my genitalia. And so on.

Most male subs are all about their genitalia and what fetishes they want catered to. Not about what they need in a relationship to be happy.

I wasn't seeking to check things off a bucket list of kink. I was seeking a relationship, compatibility and a friend.

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Slave to laundry

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(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 20

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