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RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 7:22:35 PM   
WhiteRadiance


Posts: 247
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I find myself wondering if this sub has ever served real time before he met you.  How long have you had this boy?   What were his expectations?  Had he ever served as a sub before? 
 
I agree with Julia that he is scared.  Perhaps he agreed to the piercing to please you. He should feel safe with you and understand that you have his health and welfare at heart.  If he does not trust you and questions your judgement I should think he is not ready for such a step.  Only you can decide if you should release him. 
 
I know what you are going through, believe me.  I once told my sub to kneel and he said,  "Can I go pee first, Mistress?" This same sub would constantly question the simplest request. I consider such behavior to be passive-agressive.    

(in reply to ladyangel)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 7:35:33 PM   
ladyangel


Posts: 58
Joined: 1/27/2004
Status: offline 		Ms White-

I have been involved with the boy for 2 months now. Not long, I know. As I said, these discussions are about future plans.

As for his RT--he was with another woman for *7 years*---but, in that time, was only physically with her for a week. Odd situation that was. Prior to that, supposedly he had served as a submissive. On several occasions, yes. Tho, from what he describes to Me, the relationships were not as D/s centered as what I demand.

And yes, I get questions and resistence from simple requests as well. I have questioned his sincerity in his submission. Whether it is towards Me, or in general. I have repeatedly asked him if he's sure he knows what he's getting himself into.

I do believe he is scared of the aspect of the piercing. Whether it's the "finality" or the depth of the sign of submission from the piercing, I can't be sure. But I am giving him some time to think about what I've said, and how he has spoken to Me, etc. Hopefully it will help him.


_____________________________

you say I'm a Bitch likes it's a BAD thing.
"Pain is a uniquely personal experience"

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 7:38:11 PM   
Jane2376


Posts: 23
Joined: 3/29/2006
Status: offline 		Obviously this is a much larger problem than just piercing as you pointed out.  Perhaps he needs a firmer hand than you are offering him, some subs need harsher dominants than others.  Maybe he is just pushing you?  Has this just popped up or has this been a constant problem since the relationship started?  I think what you need to express to him is that if he can't trust you then he should not be submitting to you, that's common sence, why put yourself in the hands of someone you don't trust? The answer on his part should be that he does trust you.  So if he trusts you enough to submit to you he should trust the dicisions you make, and if not then he needs to extract himself from the relationship.  I think if you put these questions to him and give him some time to think about it, he'll be better able to understand his own conflict.  Best of luck.

Lacaena

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 7:41:34 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I wish you luck.

(in reply to ladyangel)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 8:01:46 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Seems to me that the easiest way for you to grow closer to this submissive would be to drop the piercing requ'ts altogether. What is more important, the person or the piercing? Maybe this is turning out to be a hard limit for him, and rather than just say no and risk losing you, he is equivocating.

When you are trying to get along with someone, I also think its important to drop the whole D/S thing out the window, establish a rapport, and then reintegrate the D/S back in. Overall, it seems like the scope of your problem is rather narrow, assuming you get along well in all other areas.

(in reply to ladyangel)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 8:15:52 PM   
MstrFury


Posts: 77
Joined: 2/1/2006
Status: offline 		I guess I'll have to come at this one from a much different angle....your so called boy is of no consequence to me...my question goes to you..... I know these forums are for knowledge...insight...understanding...etc.....that's all a given here....what troubles me about this issue you've presented....(this is all speculation and conjecture as you've given no background on yourself) you state:  I am in a position that I'm not sure I want to accept. Or deal with, for that matter. now my question.......why would you accept anything you don't feel is right to you...or put up with behaviors not acceptable to you.......I look at this not as an issue of his questioning...but of his showing you...he sees a weakness in you....one very obvious to me by the way you've presented your question....lack of strength to direct and guide.... I say this only because you say...you're NOT SURE.... I may be completely off on this...but as presented...and read and reread before commenting....this is what I see.....but as this is only my opinion.....I truly wish you the best as you're not testing him...he's testing you.....others may see something quite different....    pulling my cloak around me and stepping back into the shadows  

_____________________________

Fury

(in reply to ladyangel)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 8:26:52 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:


Original: LuckyAlbatross
Just because a person is not capable of doing a particular act, or be in a particular situation and remain true to themselves does not make them less submissive or somehow not accepting of the person's authority. It's more complicated than "just trust the dom."


That's true, yet from this situation, it seems the reality to me.  From the OPS words

quote:

The partner I am involved with--in an actual relationship---the boy questions almost every decision I make in regards to us and the relationship.

Example-- going into the relationship it was made known that, IN TIME, any slaves becoming Mine would be pierced, possibly tattooed.

for several days because of the last conversation evolving into nastiness and sarcasm that I have no tolerance for.

It's not just the piercing issue--it's not even the piercing that's in question. It's the constant questioning My judgement and decisions.


quote:


Original: cloudboy
What is more important, the person or the piercing?


The agreed to terms of the relationship in my mind, I think that is what the issue is here.

< Message edited by slavejali -- 6/13/2006 8:30:07 PM >

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(in reply to ownedschiava)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 8:34:52 PM   
zero69u2


Posts: 107
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline 		my bad advice..
piercing branding, tatooing are serious body mods, not something that can be casually demanded on a whim in a light sub/Mistress relation. Alot of full time slaves would hard limit to body mods.

what i'd do.. sit down with boy..
Discussion : Fears, Hard Limits.. and you pick 2 other topics. Trust and Fantasy or something that will disclose a great deal of interest to you as his Mistress. his feelings on what his submission to you means to him and why he questions your authority..
all good valid topics.

If he fears displeasing you make him write 4 essays on the topics. or openly discuss it.

after this your going to play a card on him. Slaves hate to be displeasing. what a submissive wants most is to be pleasing to his mistress. You need to explain that your fantasys and desires as his Mistress/Master are important to you and your authority is not to be questioned and your control over him is absolute.

You can play the pick 3 toys from toybag to play with game. then put those 3 toys away and play with your favorite whips and floggers.  This is to remind him that your the mistress and its not his decision that matters. its yours. (normally you'd play this game with his decisions being incorperated into play. but this is punishment)

you can blindfold and bondage him and enforce some discipline.. i highly recommend this.

Remember your not punishing him for having a hard limit against body modification.
your also not punishing him for his essays responses.
Your punishing him for questioning your authority at every turn and being displeasing. you punish out of love for him.. dismissal is when he's thrown a absolute dealbreaker.

finding the right punishment to bring him under your reigns.. is your discretion.
we don't want a dealbreaker what we want is control..

that's my bad advice.



(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 8:58:45 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		You've been with this man for two months.  My suggestion is to drop any talk of a possible future piercing.  If he brings it up, tell him that the subject is tabled for the forseeable future.  It's obviously creating a strain that your young relationship doesn't need to bear.  Chances are good that much later down the road, he'll be much more amiable to the idea of the piercing. It's pretty stringent to expect someone to serve without question at two months.  You need time to grow into each other.

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to zero69u2)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 9:08:42 PM   
sephisurrender3d


Posts: 37
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		As i sit here reading the OP i am reminded of a number of conversations with my own Master about my questioning His Wants.... Oh i know a slave /sub is supposed to never question but when i stop questioning is when i stop learning and stop being true to myself...
 
I know most of you are saying this is BS but its what i feel and believe ... My Master wants me to have my hood pierced ,lips pierced and a few other things.. Now i have a brand , a tattoo , my cartiledge pierced , my collar and we are married .. I am terrified of needles so the whole piercing thing has been an arguement and a half.. Master has gotten very angry about me bucking Him on these issues.. I know i have several issues with piercings in those areas and know what i can and can not handle.. True enough i trusted Master with my life and those of my kids by coming here... There are just some things i can not get past ...
 
There have been times we have clashed over what things i want my children to learn or not learn.. Master and i grew up differently and have clashes all the time about what things are called, what things we agree on for the kids ...He tells me im not being slave like ... I guess maybe im not but my heritage is part of me and if i give that up then who the hell am i?
 
So a slave doesnt want a genital piercing .. Thats not the end of the world...If there is differences of opinions or concerns then reexamine whats important ..
 
No two people are going to think or feel alike all the time ..Differnces can either be a blessing or a chore just depends on how smoothly you want your world to flow..Find common ground , see if there is underlying issues, are the differences to much to bear ...
 
 
just me..
 
sephi

(in reply to ladyangel)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 9:17:23 PM   
ladyangel


Posts: 58
Joined: 1/27/2004
Status: offline 		The thing I want to reitterate is the piercing is just an EXAMPLE of how he consistently questions the choices and decisions I make for him, or us, as a couple.The piercing isn't the problem, it's a symptom of a larger problem, and that's what Im trying to find. How others have dealt with the particular problem.

I used piercing as an example. I am beyond that, as an issue. I'm trying to find a solution to either dealing with, or understanding how to deal with the bigger issue.

I really do appreciate the feedback. I have read every post and will continue to reread them to gain better understanding. I am also going to be utilizing several of the suggestions given, to gain understanding directly from the boy.

Thank you again to everyone that has replied to My request for advice.

Lady Angel


_____________________________

you say I'm a Bitch likes it's a BAD thing.
"Pain is a uniquely personal experience"

(in reply to sephisurrender3d)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 9:22:31 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I am really wishing you all the luck in the world.  You must care to take so much time to address his contrariness. Hopefully it is just a case of his feeling overwhelmed by the dynamic and something easily solved. Again, good luck

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(in reply to ladyangel)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 9:29:59 PM   
ladyangel


Posts: 58
Joined: 1/27/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you very much, julia. and you as well, sweetnurse and jali.

I come to the boards because every time, I leave with more knowledge and better insight. Nine times out of ten, there's something that I can relate to.

This boy I have---I do care for deeply. It's not about the piercing, it IS about the contrariness. I KNOW he cares for Me, and I'm positive we have a bright future--I just see where he needs more stability, more control, more compassion. And some of things can be quite a challenge for Me, as I've never had to deal with them in this aspect.

Thank you again, folks. I will keep reading for more input.

Lady Angel


_____________________________

you say I'm a Bitch likes it's a BAD thing.
"Pain is a uniquely personal experience"

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 9:41:16 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		I would question someone who after two months wanted to discuss piercing and tattooing me. 

Are you both single?  Do you plan on living together?  If not, how many days a week to you plan on spending together?

In my unhumble opinion, having people get tattooed in what seems to be a rather casual (in amount of time spent together) relationship seems like a rather bad idea.

(in reply to ladyangel)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 10:22:38 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ladyangel

Ms White-

I have been involved with the boy for 2 months now. Not long, I know. As I said, these discussions are about future plans.


How much of that two months have been real time and how much "online?" 

quote:


As for his RT--he was with another woman for *7 years*---but, in that time, was only physically with her for a week. Odd situation that was. Prior to that, supposedly he had served as a submissive. On several occasions, yes. Tho, from what he describes to Me, the relationships were not as D/s centered as what I demand.


So he spent a total of one week in that seven years serving real time?  In his service prior to that, was it real time or "online?"  How much of it was real time?

quote:


And yes, I get questions and resistence from simple requests as well. I have questioned his sincerity in his submission. Whether it is towards Me, or in general. I have repeatedly asked him if he's sure he knows what he's getting himself into.

I do believe he is scared of the aspect of the piercing. Whether it's the "finality" or the depth of the sign of submission from the piercing, I can't be sure. But I am giving him some time to think about what I've said, and how he has spoken to Me, etc. Hopefully it will help him.


It sounds to me like he has very little real experience serving.  As you might have figured out already, I don't believe in the concept of "online service."  It's a fantasy game, not service, and no matter how much "experience" one might have with it, it does not prepare one for the reality of face to face service.  I think that the problem might be that he's finding that eyes are bigger than his stomach, so to speak.

Many people have rather extreme fantasies that are pretty hot to them when they're playing with Mother Thumb and her four daughters.  I should know, I'm one of them.  I've realized some of mine, although not the most extreme ones.  What I've learned from that is, if given the chance to truly realize the most extreme ones, I would run for the hills.

My point being, I think you are probably the closest he's ever come to realizing his favorite masturbation fantasy, of being a total, 24/7 slave.  I think he's starting to see all the drawbacks of that, and how much it would truly change his life.  I think that's probably the root cause of his resistance.

(in reply to ladyangel)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/13/2006 11:30:22 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		hahha some lil boy is being to argumentative much I'd say.


Course sometimes maybe he can't help it.

(in reply to JessieMe)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/14/2006 4:45:08 AM   
WhiteRadiance


Posts: 247
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Lady-
 
I think your boy may not realize how often he questions you.  I also think he has limited real exerience and has a preconceived notion of how it "should" be. 
When my sub questions an order, I simply ask, "Are you arguing with me?"  This makes him realize he has questioned me.  (Often they do not recognize this behavior in themselves). 
 
We all have our particular way of doing a certain thing, and a boy who is an intelligent, independant thinker may think his way of doing a thing is best.  I explain that my way is not necessarily the "best" or only way- but it is MY way, and the way I want it done. 

I think you have a lot of potential here and your relationship is in it's infancy. You care for him, and I am sure the feeling as mutual.  
 
You and he need to grow together, communicate, and the both of you need to be open to listen and learn. Remember, you can learn from him too.  :)

(in reply to ladyangel)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/14/2006 4:53:54 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		So, questions are not allowed?

Oddly, I'd think questions would be welcomed.  They do present an opportunity not only for getting deeper into the mindset of one's slave, but also excellent opportunities for growth.  I have always had every question I've ever had answered. I find it very odd when others slam the door on it.

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/14/2006 7:03:49 AM   
WhiteRadiance


Posts: 247
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		feastie-
 
Are you referring to my post?  Because I clearly said to communicate in matters such as piercing and those fears associated with it.   My point WAS- that when I am asking he do something SIMPLE- (such as take out the trash)-  why should he ask me "are you sure you don't want me to water the yard first?"  When I tell him to do something- NOW- I do not want to wait, or have him question when how or where to do it.  Such questions seem (to me) to be a form of passive-agressive behavior.   
 
Should submissives be allowed to have opinions?  Should they feel free to express their fears and expectations?  Of course, if you want a relationship that works. 
 
I certainly do not slam the door on questions but for heaven's sake, the question should be pertinent to the relationship and not a way of bucking a request!




quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

So, questions are not allowed?

Oddly, I'd think questions would be welcomed.  They do present an opportunity not only for getting deeper into the mindset of one's slave, but also excellent opportunities for growth.  I have always had every question I've ever had answered. I find it very odd when others slam the door on it.

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: subs/slaves and the whys - 6/14/2006 7:07:23 AM   
ladyangel


Posts: 58
Joined: 1/27/2004
Status: offline 		As I said---these discussions are for things that are going to happen, IN THE FUTURE.
I discuss MANY things--and not all of them will happen at all, or will happen now. They are discussions.

And I as I said earlier in the thread-- Its not the PIERCING or TATTOOING that I have issues with, its the questioning My judgement and choices. That may have been missed, I dont know, but I'll just reitterate it again. And it's not just about nthe piercing that he questions Me, this was just an EXAMPLE.

I should've realized that with such an "extreme" act of submission, some readers would concentrate on the act, instead of what I'm really asking about. I should've found a different example so it would'nt distract from the real question.

Lady Angel


_____________________________

you say I'm a Bitch likes it's a BAD thing.
"Pain is a uniquely personal experience"

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 40
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