RE: subs/slaves and the whys

RE: subs/slaves and the whys (Full Version)

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sharainks -> RE: subs/slaves and the whys (6/15/2006 4:01:49 AM)
In the Op you don't say whether he is sub or slave. Its sub/slave. Which is it? Its not stated that there is any type of contract between you that would suggest he has agreed to accept you making choices for him. Talking about is one thing. Agreement is another. I'm with Crappydom when he stated it seems like 2 months is a very short amount of time to be in a relationship and wanting to make permanent changes in someone's body. It could be that its way short of the time he would need to feel comfortable in allowing you to make the kind of choices you are wanting to make for him. My guess is that you are pushing too hard too fast and thats why the resistance is there. It also sounds like what you want is a slave and that is quite possibly not what he is. As a submissive he may not be willing to give you control over how his body looks for the rest of his life. In other words a limit. It might not hurt to step into his reality and ask yourself how you would feel in a short term relationship if someone was asking the same of you.

ladyangel -> RE: subs/slaves and the whys (6/15/2006 4:45:34 AM)
I've stated several times that the piercing is NOT the issue. It was the topic of the discussion that kept leading to the fallout of communication. IF, not WHEN, the piercing happens, it would be QUITE some time down the road. So many posters think I am entering into this too fast and too lightly. I have had livein slaves before, I have had casual playmates before, I even did the highly controversial pro thing for awhile. So I completely understand what I would be asking/demanding the slave to do. In the OP, I stated this was a discussion of the FUTURE happenings, which developed into a full out argument about the whys and "my opinion is" and "i dont likes". My query was to the other Dominants and submissives/slaves as to how to deal with it. how to understand his questions and fears and his willful combative nature. Not whether or not I should pierce the boy. Also, I made another post somewhere in the thread that stated it was an EXAMPLE of what happens when he begins to question My choices and opinions for him, Me and the relationship. I stated that many people were focusing on that ACT, rather than the question at hand. I have received MANY very intelligent and thought provoking answers, and will definitely be taking the knowledge from the Others with me, when dealing with this situation. But, nonetheless, thank you for the reply. Lady Angel

agirl -> RE: subs/slaves and the whys (6/15/2006 5:37:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ladyangel As I said---these discussions are for things that are going to happen, IN THE FUTURE. I discuss MANY things--and not all of them will happen at all, or will happen now. They are discussions. And I as I said earlier in the thread-- Its not the PIERCING or TATTOOING that I have issues with, its the questioning My judgement and choices. That may have been missed, I dont know, but I'll just reitterate it again. And it's not just about nthe piercing that he questions Me, this was just an EXAMPLE. I should've realized that with such an "extreme" act of submission, some readers would concentrate on the act, instead of what I'm really asking about. I should've found a different example so it would'nt distract from the real question. Lady Angel Hello Lady Angel...I realise that your question isn't soley regarding the piercing issue, so I thought I'd add some thoughts about contrariness from my perspective as a contraryslave. My biggest character flaw by FAR is that I'm contrary...it isn't helpful, it isn't pretty but it IS there. I am not sure that questioning constantly in the way you describe is contrariness, as such. It appears , from description, to be lack of trust, an incompatibility or maybe a mismatch of understanding of what it actually means to relinquish control. I am contrary...When faced with being told what to do, one of my first instincts is NOT to want to do it.......and it might even be something I actually would like. I do as I'm told because I willingly consented to this type of relationship; I agreed to it and if I truly can't fulfil that, then I should not have chosen it. Two things stood out to me... One is that you haven't been in the relationship long, therefore can't know each other's personality in depth, despite loving each other. The other is that when a person agrees to something, that's exactly what they've done..AGREE to it. Entering into a relationship without a fair degree of time spent getting to know someone as a person, means that learning about them becomes something done on the hoof, so to speak. You have to learn them as a person AND deal with issues of trust, obedience , discipline, etc.... simultaneously. When you know someone well, over time, in different situations, these things become less of an issue. When you know them, the nuances of their behaviour, their personality and how they are displayed...... the answers to the questions you ask become clearer. Put simply, you know how to handle them as a person....you know which buttons to press to get the desired result. You have control. Regards, agirl Edited to add; My contrariness causes more of a problem for ME than my Master....There's always a point where falling into line is more comfortable than confronting a big stick....lol

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: subs/slaves and the whys (6/15/2006 6:28:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavejali Yeah, lots of us want a lovely person for a partner, and thats all fantastic..but we choosing to enter into a D/s dynamic..so stuff relative to D/s is really important..otherwise people would just end up like the ones who post in here talking about how much they want to participate in D/s but their partner isnt interested. I don't think she should give up or compromise a single bit on what she feels is necessary as the owner in this situation. I don't think the slave should compromise a single bit what he feels is necessary to be true to himself. That doesn't mean you say "Either it's perfect today or you're gone tomorrow." Things take time and energy. Is this situation worth the time and energy for both of them to ultimately reach the point they both claim they want to be at? If so, then give it the time and energy- at least to a reasonable point.

rose442 -> RE: subs/slaves and the whys (6/15/2006 10:08:20 AM)
I want to ask a few questions and give my thoughts if I may do so. Is there a contract? If so, is this in the contract? I will give my personal experience with this too.... and then you might see why I asked these questions. Master and I had discussed a piercing as well for me. (labia piercing). I was all for it. It was the day we were going to go do it, and I chickened out. Master let it go because I was scared. And He made the final decision that Wwe were not going. I was fighting with myself to do it. Knowing it would please Master if I did. But He said no... not till I was ready. BUT, this is because it is not said and signed on Oour contract. IF it was in the contract that I had to have this piercing, then Master would have inforced it. So the contract is there for the protection of Bboth. Now I have the same problem in questioning Master. I question anything new or that I am curious or worried about doing. And most people I have mentioned this to, say it is due to trust issues. And Master and I discuss what is bothering me, and Wwe work through it. I don't know if my trust issues will ever go away. As I feel now. I don't think they will. But each relationship is different, and the issues of Your slave is different than mine. Communication is the key to any relationship. And there isn't anything else that will get Your slave to have total trust in you and know He will be safe in doing this that pleases You. rose442

sweetnessforsir -> RE: subs/slaves and the whys (6/15/2006 11:16:53 AM)
From this side of the equation, when I question, rethink, withdraw, there is a common cause. I am afraid that things are going wrong, that the relationship is fading, that He will be gone. It does undermine the Dominant, and it is wrong. For me, and I know this is not true for everyone, I need reassurance from the D part of the relationship. Reassurance that we are fine together, that I will obey based on promises I have made, that it is not on the table for discussion, that He (She in this case) would not put me in harm's way. In extreme cases, the only way to end the inappropriate behavior is punishment. (omg . . . did I recommend that?) THEN, as I regain comfort I become less resistant and less skeptical. The actual moment of delivery (piercing, threesome, new type of play) is the moment of surrender. If he is unable to surrender/submit to Your wishes, then the it seems clear that all bets are off. Well, I guess I won't tell my piercing story. s

Verijaa -> RE: subs/slaves and the whys (6/15/2006 11:37:08 AM)
So your problem apparently is with trust and communication. Trust comes over time, when he sees that your decisions work out well for you both. Communication comes with practice from both sides. You might consider making it more formal for a time, to set in some habits. First, he must ask permission to ask a question. If he questions you without permission, drop a marble in a jar, or move a bead on an abacus, or whatever you want to use to track things. For every so many transgressions, set a penalty. This doesn't have to be whipping or spanking or anything that requires effort from you, but something that he dislikes doing. Second, any questions must be informational, not judgemental. If he asks permission to ask a question, recieves it, then questions your judgement instead of asking for info regarding how to perform his task, he gets another marble in the jar. Third, if he does question your judgement on something, and any intelligent person will eventually, have him write out what his concern is and why, in polite terms, for your review. If you're consistant with this approach, or something similar of your own, you will teach him to think before he speaks, to be aware of exactly what he wishes to say, and you will still promote communication on all issues rather than blocking it. Your responses to his questions and consistancy in your demands will help promote the trust over time. And I love the research assignment idea. If he's nervous about something, have him find out more about it and give you a report. Promote communication, don't block it.

ladyangel -> RE: subs/slaves and the whys (6/15/2006 3:43:19 PM)
I have to say, I love this approach, Verijaa. And thank you for posting it. I see how it could work, if being implemented and followed through. Maybe it is tried and true for You? <smile> For the others that have asked questions....he claims to be a slave--tho, I, several times, question that self appointed title. As for a contract...no, there isn't one. I will be diligently working on one, though--should things continue to progress. Thank you B/both, L/ladies for your input. I'm learning and getting more insight every day. Lady Angel

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