Humiliation vs Degradation

Humiliation vs Degradation (Full Version)

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Vancouver_cinful -> Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 5:30:03 PM)
The post on humiliation got me thinking. Many people seem to think of humiliation as degrading. I don't consider humiliation and degradation to be the same thing. Humiliation, in my definition, is something said, or done, to humble a submissive. This humbling can be a very healthy thing, just as kneeling before an altar and humbling yourself is seen as healthy. I personally find it very spiritual, since it takes me out of ego. I see degradation as something that is employed to lower a sub's self-esteem. This would include the "You are a lowly worm. You are only good enough to lick my dirty boots." type of scene. I do not engage in degradation, at all. I love humiliation. I'm interested in other views on this.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 5:35:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful The post on humiliation got me thinking. Many people seem to think of humiliation as degrading. I don't consider humiliation and degradation to be the same thing. Humiliation, in my definition, is something said, or done, to humble a submissive. This humbling can be a very healthy thing, just as kneeling before an altar and humbling yourself is seen as healthy. I personally find it very spiritual, since it takes me out of ego. I see degradation as something that is employed to lower a sub's self-esteem. This would include the "You are a lowly worm. You are only good enough to lick my dirty boots." type of scene. I do not engage in degradation, at all. I love humiliation. I'm interested in other views on this. I agree with you completely except for the "self esteem" part. For me dragadation means putting the person in a lower/lesser position relative to those around them- mentally, emotionally, physically. I used to hate degradation. Now I love humiliation, objectification and degradation.

angelface183 -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 5:36:55 PM)
you know someone wrote a great essay about this recently...LA do you know where it is?

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 5:48:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I agree with you completely except for the "self esteem" part. For me dragadation means putting the person in a lower/lesser position relative to those around them- mentally, emotionally, physically. See, now I think that's what I would call humiliation. ::scratches my head:: Would you mind expounding on this?

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 5:51:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelface183 you know someone wrote a great essay about this recently...LA do you know where it is? Sadly I wrote guite a long essay on this, and lost it when my computer crashed. [:(] I'd be interested in reading it. I'll try search.

angelface183 -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 6:34:11 PM)
Found it!http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=354294 Padriag wrote it and I thought that it was pretty good...

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 6:54:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelface183 Found it!http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=354294 Padriag wrote it and I thought that it was pretty good... LOL Thanks. And I found this one from LA: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=425393 (The funny thing was it didn't come up on search but I stumbled on it by accident!)

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 7:09:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful See, now I think that's what I would call humiliation. ::scratches my head:: Would you mind expounding on this? No it's not, you put what you define as humiliation right up there and I think it's a pretty good definition. There's a difference between being put in a humbling situation and/or humbling yourself, and actively being placed in a lower/lesser position relative to those around you. While I get off on being degraded to a lesser position relative to others, I don't think or feel that my actual sense of self esteem is altered. I'm sure there are activities which do both for some people, do neither for some people and do one or the other for some people.

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 7:35:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross There's a difference between being put in a humbling situation and/or humbling yourself, and actively being placed in a lower/lesser position relative to those around you. While I get off on being degraded to a lesser position relative to others, I don't think or feel that my actual sense of self esteem is altered. I'm still not sure I get what you are saying. I agree that being humbled to a lesser position relative to others wouldn't necessarily affect my self-esteem. Obviously it depends on the context and the individual. Being called a hole for someone's use doesn't lower my self-esteem. Being called a filthy piece of crap, would. (But I wouldn't assume it would have the same effect on someone else.) So, if whatever you are engaging in doesn't lower your self-esteem, would you still call it degradation?

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 7:40:03 PM)
Arrgghh...It's been a long day and my brain is not on full battery. I think I now get what you are saying. You consider degradation to be putting the person into a lower place relative to other people. If so, I can see that definition. But what would you call a scene that's purpose is to lower a sub's self-esteem?

litleone8620 -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 7:41:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful See, now I think that's what I would call humiliation. ::scratches my head:: Would you mind expounding on this? No it's not, you put what you define as humiliation right up there and I think it's a pretty good definition. There's a difference between being put in a humbling situation and/or humbling yourself, and actively being placed in a lower/lesser position relative to those around you. While I get off on being degraded to a lesser position relative to others, I don't think or feel that my actual sense of self esteem is altered. I'm sure there are activities which do both for some people, do neither for some people and do one or the other for some people. I have also been wondering this, and the definititions i would find on websites seemed like they didn't apply to me, or they didn't make sense. I wanted to thank you LA for putting into terms i can understand. I have been in a scene where there is humiliation, but not degredation; though i would love to someday.

litleone8620 -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 7:44:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful See, now I think that's what I would call humiliation. ::scratches my head:: Would you mind expounding on this? No it's not, you put what you define as humiliation right up there and I think it's a pretty good definition. There's a difference between being put in a humbling situation and/or humbling yourself, and actively being placed in a lower/lesser position relative to those around you. While I get off on being degraded to a lesser position relative to others, I don't think or feel that my actual sense of self esteem is altered. I'm sure there are activities which do both for some people, do neither for some people and do one or the other for some people. I have wondered about this for a while now. I have done the research but for some reason, the definitions seemed like they didn't apply to me, or didn't make any sense. Though i'm not saying i expected every single definition i read would apply to me, but it would have made things a bit easier. I wanted to thank you, LA, for putting it into terms i can understand. I have been in a couple scenes where i am humiliated, and loved it, But never where i was degraded. Would love to be in one, someday.

GddssBella -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 8:06:05 PM)
G'evening all: However you personally interpret the words, they do have specific definitions. I will apply what appears most applicable. Humiliation - to reduce to a lower position in one's own eyes or others' eyes. Degradation - 1 : the act or process of degrading (see note below) 2 a : decline to a low, destitute, or demoralized state b : moral or intellectual decadence Degrading - 1 a : to lower in grade, rank, or status b : to strip of rank or honors c : to lower to an inferior or less effective level d : to scale down in desirability or salability 2 a : to bring to low esteem or into disrepute b : to drag down in moral or intellectual character They are nearly synonymous. Hence I have a distinct discomfort with utilizing either. I couldn't be involved with a subbie if I didn't respect him. For the occasional scene, it can prove to be an effective mind fuck but otherwise, not my cup of tea. Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others... [:D] Bella

litleone8620 -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 8:13:25 PM)
sorry for the double post [:D]

TNstepsout -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 8:16:43 PM)
Hmmmm so where does embarassment come in?

litleone8620 -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 8:27:33 PM)
Hmmmm, good question. In my opinion embarrassment is not degredation. It could be humiliation, in the fact that it humbles you, but i think the similarities end there. Does embarrassment put you at a lower level than those around you (paraphrased from LA, since that's about the easiest definition i've seen for degredation)? It's up to you. If you let it affect you that way, it will. Embarrassment doesn't need to be something feared or avoided. It's just another one of those emotions we all have to deal with on a daily basis.

slavejali -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 9:05:31 PM)
I think we change the literal meanings of some words when they are applied to kink. Literally, humiliation and degredation mean the same thing to me. ..actually come to think about it..i could interchange the words applied in a kink sense as well... Slave Jali's Kink Dictionary Humiliation (degredation): A type of play that both people agree to where the Top targets weakened areas in the bottoms mental and emotional make-up for the purpose of enjoyment, or as a means to an end in training.

mastersayed -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 9:17:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavejali I think we change the literal meanings of some words when they are applied to kink. Literally, humiliation and degredation mean the same thing to me. ..actually come to think about it..i could interchange the words applied in a kink sense as well... Slave Jali's Kink Dictionary Humiliation (degredation): A type of play that both people agree to where the Top targets weakened areas in the bottoms mental and emotional make-up for the purpose of enjoyment, or as a means to an end in training. Where do I get a copy of your kink dictionary?

MistressLorelei -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 9:19:25 PM)
I see humiliation and degradation as overlapping or meaning the same thing. I don't view one as damaging and the other as not damaging. Humiliation/degradation could be damaging to one sub, and degradation/humiliation could be non-damaging to another. Many aspects of bdsm play could 'damage' one's self-esteem, so I don't think degradation (or any humiliiting act) has any more impact than anything else. Some would be crushed by 'being told they were a pathetic slut', some would be crushed if cuckolded, others by being feminized, being urinated on, walked on a leash, by being told to kneel in the corner as punishment.... etc. The self-esteem of others may remain perfectly intact even as they are being told they are pathetic worms, whose tiny cocks are worthless, as they are pushed down to eat dog food from the floor. The mentality of each person is different... and whether it be humiliation (in the 'good' sense), or degradation in the 'bad' sense, or any other questionable bdsm act, care should be taken to learn the submissive one is responsible for, and watch for signs that the activity is suited for the submissive at that time... be it a 'good' activity or a 'bad' one.

slavejali -> RE: Humiliation vs Degradation (6/13/2006 9:24:16 PM)
quote: Orginal: mastersayed Where do I get a copy of your kink dictionary? Well, they are on back order at the moment. If you would like to forward $99.50 on my secure server which accepts credit card safely.... grin

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