RE: Lance Armstrong

RE: Lance Armstrong (Full Version)

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Focus50 -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/22/2012 2:24:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 quote: ORIGINAL: kitkat105 I kind of suspected he might have blamed his cancer treatments for continuous blood tranfusions, etc. I was always suspicious of him. I think this is idiotic. So all the top athletes are doping? So basically you're going to have a dead decade in cycling where the records show no winners. Because even the second and third place finishers had to be doping as well. Despite none of them failing a test. And then you take down the top guy in your sport? And in doing so you take all his fellow top cyclist too. (since they were all were doping, even though they didn't fail test). So who are you going to hold up as the greatest cyclist of all time? The guy who consistently came in 15th place? Whoa, way to take a mile...! lol As kitkat said, she's not implied anything about "all the top athletes". And why the need to identify a so-called "greatest cyclist of all time"? Personally, I think a "dead decade" of cycling records is the way to go. The thing about all drug cheats is that awards can be rescinded and tropies/medals returned but they still had their victor's moment on the podium accepting national and international acclaim, and the fame, riches & rewards that inevitably follow. None of the latter passes on to the next best, making it a somewhat hollow victory, even to the beneficiary. Best they can hope for is some personal vindication and a historical notation. I see this morning that the UCI chief (Pat McQuaid?) is doing an excellent impersonation of the 3 wise monkeys. He's gonna be needing a little nudge.... Focus.

vincentML -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/22/2012 2:59:08 PM)
~FR~ If everyone is doing it then it is a level playing field. What's the problem? The purity of the sport? If you want purity don't pay the athletes. Let them compete for the glory and honor [8\|]

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/22/2012 4:45:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB One of the reasons I have always admired Lance Armstrong is, he was a big symbol of hope for all those suffering similar cancers to him. Lets not forget the huge amounts of money this guy has raised for charity. The number of people, me included, who have been inspired by this guys zest for life. His accomplishments were huge and the guy showed extraordinary courage, determination, persistence, and absolute discipline when it came to training and competing. I have followed the 'tour'. I followed it again this year and its unbelievably tough. I live on the same mountains these guys cycle up. I regularly have to drive 8 mile climbs in second gear and that's in a car for christ sake. Lance may well of doped but he wasn't alone. Every guy that stood on that podium was under some 'code of silence' It was a fairly mutual supportive group but when one talked they were all stuffed. The saddest thing isn't that he did this, which I'm sure he did, but the continual witch hunt to bring him to ground and dig him out. Lets be assured that those who went on this witch hunt won't have achieved anything like as much as he has. Le plus dur, c'est pas d'arriver au sommet, c'est d'y etre. I have known many people who have suffered from cancer. Some are in remission. Some are still battling. And some are dead. The youngest person I know battling cancer was 5 when diagnosed (and is now 10). Another of the youngest was in her 20s when she was diagnosed and died. The oldest in their 80s. None of them won any kind of athletic competition. None of them was "famous". None of them made millions of dollars from corporate sponsorships. But they inspire me more each day of my life more than words can say, and certainly much more than some cheating athlete who thought he was above the rules. You know, the more I think about this, f*** Lance Armstrong. I just attended another funeral this past weekend. Millions of people die from cancer who are much better people. I really don't care about someone who made a ton of money by cheating. It makes him no better than those guys on Wall St. that everyone complains about. Wall Streeters donate a lot of money to charity, too. So what? So now doing things for charity means we just overlook the bad things that people did? Personally, I have many other people who are better poster people for cancer. No, none of them is famous, but when I think about the true impact cancer has had on the people who I know who have battled it, and the strength of their souls in the face of this awful disease, they all make Lance Armstrong look like a complete and utter jerk. He made a lot of money by cheating. Maybe the charity work was to assuage his guilt. For the record, Burns Entertainment & Sports Marketing, which tracks endorsement income for U.S. celebrities, estimates that Armstrong made $15 million to $18 million from endorsements in 2011 alone, with almost 2/3 of that coming from Nike. That was just for 2011. That actually makes some of the Wall Streeters look poor. Also, for those who would like to support cancer causes, there are 1000s of charities out there dedicated to this disease that have nothing to do with Lance Armstrong. If you support the cause then donate and make a difference. Lance Armstrong is irrelevant.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/22/2012 5:35:34 PM)
p.s. Check out http://www.livestrong.com - a for-profit website that Armstrong runs that claims "Let Us Be Your Personal Guide To Becoming A Better, Healthier You!". So where is the doping section of the website? Does Lance Armstrong make money off of selling performance enhancing drugs, too?

blacksword404 -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/22/2012 6:59:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kitkat105 quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 quote: ORIGINAL: kitkat105 I kind of suspected he might have blamed his cancer treatments for continuous blood tranfusions, etc. I was always suspicious of him. I think this is idiotic. So all the top athletes are doping? So basically you're going to have a dead decade in cycling where the records show no winners. Because even the second and third place finishers had to be doping as well. Despite none of them failing a test. And then you take down the top guy in your sport? And in doing so you take all his fellow top cyclist too. (since they were all were doping, even though they didn't fail test). So who are you going to hold up as the greatest cyclist of all time? The guy who consistently came in 15th place? I'm not saying all the top athletes are doping, but you are idiotic (thanks for that) if you think these people are still innocent. Without a shadow of a doubt, cycling has been outed as the most corrupt sport there currently is. It is a big money industry, hence the ability of those involved to create such an elaborate scheme of doping. I didnt mean you were idiotic. I meant this whole situation is. Why go after the most visible and popular guy in your sport when you know that everybody who is on that elite level is doing the asme thing? And why even test people if you know they are doping and they all pass.

MariaB -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/23/2012 12:18:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess I have known many people who have suffered from cancer. Some are in remission. Some are still battling. And some are dead. The youngest person I know battling cancer was 5 when diagnosed (and is now 10). Another of the youngest was in her 20s when she was diagnosed and died. The oldest in their 80s. None of them won any kind of athletic competition. None of them was "famous". None of them made millions of dollars from corporate sponsorships. But they inspire me more each day of my life more than words can say, and certainly much more than some cheating athlete who thought he was above the rules. Tha'ts a really interesting observation but had nothing whatsoever to do with what I was meaning in my previous post. I am not here to defend Lance Armstrong but to give my opinion without bringing personal emotions into it. I respect your opinion but its yours and not mine. On a final note. Cancer is not a competition on who was less deserved and who was more deserved. It doesn't care who it selects.

yourdarkdesire -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/23/2012 12:46:31 AM)
If I am going to admire an athelete who fought testicular cancer, beat it, and came back to his sport, I would be looking at Scott Hamilton way way way before I looked at Armstrong.

Focus50 -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/23/2012 1:41:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 I didnt mean you were idiotic. I meant this whole situation is. Why go after the most visible and popular guy in your sport when you know that everybody who is on that elite level is doing the asme thing? And why even test people if you know they are doping and they all pass. You're quite the advocate of anarchy. If they only went after the "little fish", you'd be here complaining that the "big boys" get a pass because they have the money and influence to grease the right palms, no? Bigger picture - just curious about your apparent disdain for rules, limits and boundaries etc.... What do you get out of the BDSM lifestyle? Focus.

blacksword404 -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/23/2012 2:50:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 I didnt mean you were idiotic. I meant this whole situation is. Why go after the most visible and popular guy in your sport when you know that everybody who is on that elite level is doing the asme thing? And why even test people if you know they are doping and they all pass. You're quite the advocate of anarchy. If they only went after the "little fish", you'd be here complaining that the "big boys" get a pass because they have the money and influence to grease the right palms, no? Bigger picture - just curious about your apparent disdain for rules, limits and boundaries etc.... What do you get out of the BDSM lifestyle? Focus. I don't have a disdain for rules. I habeas dislike for a situation where there is no real way for a person to prove they are clean. You can't do it by passing drug screenings. And if anybody accuses you of filing then many will consider you guilty. Is being so mediocre that nobody is jealous enough to claim you were doping the only way to prove you aren't? I don't care about cycling. Never watched a race. Don't care to. Don't much care about lance armstrong. The situation the sport seems to be in is an idiotic one. As far I can see maybe everybody who ever won in the sport was doping. How can anybody know? As far as bdsm rules go, What rules? Determined by who? Enforced by who? How many of them are you refering to?

ScarletKissesx -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/23/2012 4:39:52 PM)
You know what a lot of you failed to recognize :( The scene in dodgeball with his big heroic speech is now RUINED!!! only chuck norris holds that movie together now :'(

Focus50 -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/23/2012 8:05:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 As far as bdsm rules go, What rules? Determined by who? Enforced by who? How many of them are you refering to? Kudos for catching me by complete surprise with this most excellent answer to my question - and probably any other I once might've been tempted to ask you.... Focus.

blacksword404 -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/23/2012 10:10:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 As far as bdsm rules go, What rules? Determined by who? Enforced by who? How many of them are you refering to? Kudos for catching me by complete surprise with this most excellent answer to my question - and probably any other I once might've been tempted to ask you.... Focus. I'm happy I could assuage your puerile fancy.

Focus50 -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/24/2012 2:08:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 I'm happy I could assuage your puerile fancy. Ooh; sophistry - the preferred form of defense on discussion boards. [;)] Focus.

blacksword404 -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/24/2012 3:19:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 I'm happy I could assuage your puerile fancy. Ooh; sophistry - the preferred form of defense on discussion boards. [;)] Focus. You would know better than I.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/24/2012 5:28:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB One of the reasons I have always admired Lance Armstrong is, he was a big symbol of hope for all those suffering similar cancers to him. Lets not forget the huge amounts of money this guy has raised for charity. The number of people, me included, who have been inspired by this guys zest for life. His accomplishments were huge and the guy showed extraordinary courage, determination, persistence, and absolute discipline when it came to training and competing. I have followed the 'tour'. I followed it again this year and its unbelievably tough. I live on the same mountains these guys cycle up. I regularly have to drive 8 mile climbs in second gear and that's in a car for christ sake. Lance may well of doped but he wasn't alone. Every guy that stood on that podium was under some 'code of silence' It was a fairly mutual supportive group but when one talked they were all stuffed. The saddest thing isn't that he did this, which I'm sure he did, but the continual witch hunt to bring him to ground and dig him out. Lets be assured that those who went on this witch hunt won't have achieved anything like as much as he has. Le plus dur, c'est pas d'arriver au sommet, c'est d'y etre. quote: Tha'ts a really interesting observation but had nothing whatsoever to do with what I was meaning in my previous post. I am not here to defend Lance Armstrong but to give my opinion without bringing personal emotions into it. I respect your opinion but its yours and not mine. On a final note. Cancer is not a competition on who was less deserved and who was more deserved. It doesn't care who it selects. Yes, I agree that cancer is not a competition. I've bolded the parts of your original statement that to me sounded like you were defending Lance Armstrong and criticizing people for being on a witch hunt. And yes I reiterate my previous statement that I know, and have known, many cancer suffererers who have inspired me much more than Armstrong. To me, it sounded like you "admired" Lance Armstrong, were asking people not to forget his charitable work, and that you "have been inspired by this guys zest for life" (is that not what you say??). My apologies if I have misunderstood that you are, in fact, criticizing Lance Armstrong and not defending him. Just didn't understand what you were saying, I guess. [&:]

MariaB -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/25/2012 9:38:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess Yes, I agree that cancer is not a competition. I've bolded the parts of your original statement that to me sounded like you were defending Lance Armstrong and criticizing people for being on a witch hunt. And yes I reiterate my previous statement that I know, and have known, many cancer suffererers who have inspired me much more than Armstrong. To me, it sounded like you "admired" Lance Armstrong, were asking people not to forget his charitable work, and that you "have been inspired by this guys zest for life" (is that not what you say??). My apologies if I have misunderstood that you are, in fact, criticizing Lance Armstrong and not defending him. Just didn't understand what you were saying, I guess. [&:] The bit you are not getting is about you being inspired by people with cancer. What I was meaning was the people with cancer being inspired by the achievements of Lance Armstrong. A very close relative of mine has almost identical cancer to the one Lance Armstrong not only recovered from but went on to win 7 Tour de France. That relative is also a cyclist and so am I. We have had many discussions together about Lances recovery and how he learnt to embrace his cancer and use it as an aid to become the right shape (lose body mass) to achieve the goals he was able to achieve. This was before any of these new revelations appeared. Lance was hope, not for me but for my relative. Now that hope has a bitter taste to it but it doesn't take away the fact that Lance Armstrong overcame what should of been a terminal illness. I for one am glad that my relative was and has been given hope by Lance Armstrong and so have many other people suffering from cancer.

LaTigresse -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/25/2012 10:37:19 AM)
It is terribly unfortunate that a narcisistic man's dramatically over inflated ego ruined that for a huge number of people.

crazyml -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/25/2012 11:58:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB The bit you are not getting is about you being inspired by people with cancer. What I was meaning was the people with cancer being inspired by the achievements of Lance Armstrong. A very close relative of mine has almost identical cancer to the one Lance Armstrong not only recovered from but went on to win 7 Tour de France. That relative is also a cyclist and so am I. We have had many discussions together about Lances recovery and how he learnt to embrace his cancer and use it as an aid to become the right shape (lose body mass) to achieve the goals he was able to achieve. This was before any of these new revelations appeared. Lance was hope, not for me but for my relative. Now that hope has a bitter taste to it but it doesn't take away the fact that Lance Armstrong overcame what should of been a terminal illness. I for one am glad that my relative was and has been given hope by Lance Armstrong and so have many other people suffering from cancer. <sigh> I'm guessing that there are a few people in this position. One thing I'd say to a friend or relative in the same position would be - Look at Lance Armstrong, he beat it, and had the energy to concoct a massive fraud. Now, you can go a step further by a) beating it too and b) not turning into an asshat like lance.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/25/2012 1:51:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB The bit you are not getting is about you being inspired by people with cancer. What I was meaning was the people with cancer being inspired by the achievements of Lance Armstrong. A very close relative of mine has almost identical cancer to the one Lance Armstrong not only recovered from but went on to win 7 Tour de France. That relative is also a cyclist and so am I. We have had many discussions together about Lances recovery and how he learnt to embrace his cancer and use it as an aid to become the right shape (lose body mass) to achieve the goals he was able to achieve. This was before any of these new revelations appeared. Lance was hope, not for me but for my relative. Now that hope has a bitter taste to it but it doesn't take away the fact that Lance Armstrong overcame what should of been a terminal illness. I for one am glad that my relative was and has been given hope by Lance Armstrong and so have many other people suffering from cancer. And I know people who have fought back from cancer, too. And one of them is a child. And trust me, that child inspired many other children in the oncology ward. I saw her and those children regularly. And that child never cheated anyone, except maybe death. That's all I'm trying to say. Many people with cancer find inspiration from people who are truly worthy of respect. That's nice that Armstrong inspired others with cancer to fight. But he is a complete jerk. And his triumphant personal fight over cancer cannot possibly make up for the lying, cheating, stealing away legitimate victories from others, and possible destruction of an entire sport. Armstrong felt that his successful battle with the cancer demon allowed him free reign to do whatever he wanted in other realms of his life. Win at all costs. Maybe that's laudable when you are fighting cancer. It's not so laudable when you are trying to win at other things. The man has always been a jerk. The mask just fell off. He is a self-centered jerk, and I still reiterate that the people I know who have had cancer are much more inspiring even to other actual cancer patients. He may have been inspiring to you, but what makes you think the child I know was any less inspiring to those cancer patients around her - people, by the way, who she got to know personally - not due to her celebrity status as cancer victim like Armstrong, but as a fellow patient in a pediatric oncology ward? Again, why, exactly, is Armstrong better? Is it because he is famous? I agree being famous gives one reach. But it doesn't make one any more inspirational.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Lance Armstrong (10/25/2012 5:34:23 PM)
Does anyone remember the eastern bloc of the 70's , who doped like fiends for the Olympics, won scores of medals and had some of the ugliest men and women in the world? I don't think any of those medals were taken off them. as for Armstrong? The man cheated in a sport where apparently cheating was an accepted thing...... If he loses his medals , i think everyone should lose them... as it should be. The fact that the nations teams had to know about the doping makes everyone involved culpable - not just the atheletes alone.

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