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Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 3:07:31 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		I went to
http://iands.org/conferences/conference-videos-on-youtube.html
and watched for a bit the video

Seven Mysteries of Profound Love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7xA0tU2vDI&list=PL18E68E7D76E9703E

Hence, the title of this thread. Some of what she said was irritating because it was internally inconsistent. I can, however, relate to it. Technically, the love is not unconditional because if it were strictly speaking unconditional, you would not encounter an occasion where you are told that you must return because you have not yet fulfilled your destiny. So strictly speaking, it is not unconditional. I suspect the people who are experiencing the Near Death Experiences (NDEs) are confusing its vastness with a lack of conditions. The love is clearly not unconditional.

I know something of the NDE experience partly because of the degree of suffering I've known in this life. At one time my suffering was so great that the veil between the worlds became thin. In a sense I died though I did not experience physical death.
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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 3:15:44 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		What is its most prominent or salient condition? You've got to play ball. There is a need to get with the program. The demand is soft in that total compliance in the moment is unnecessary. There is flexibility. That flexibility, however, is not absolute.

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 3:41:01 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		I've pointed out in other threads, the true meaning of words need not be consistent with their prosaic definition. Another example which is applicable to this thread is the term the living dead. It is my understanding that the zombie genre is based on a passage in the Bible. In a sense one must die to this world in order to become familiar with the next. In so doing you become the living dead.

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 3:56:53 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		Where ever there is love there is a need to get with the program. Anyone with a loving wife should know this to be true. How often will she remind you of the need to get with the program? The same is true for a loving husband or any relationship involving love. No strings attached is only achieved in the absence of love. So what are these people with NDEs saying? We are all attached as if by a string to a greater existence and a greater cause.

There is no such a thing as no strings attached.

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 4:00:38 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

There is no such a thing as no strings attached.


What does this mean? It means that everything has consequences.

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 4:03:35 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		What makes the messages from beyond difficult to grasp is not their innate complexity, but their innate simplicity.

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 4:24:55 AM   
Anaxagoras


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Status: offline 		Is only one person allowed post on this thread?

ETA, Thanks all but I've just managed to get an answer to my own question!

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 10/15/2012 4:25:56 AM >

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 4:27:15 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

Is only one person allowed post on this thread?


No, feel free to make your contribution.

Suppose you had an NDE experience and you were told that you needed to return. Why? It is because everything has consequences. Your absence would have consequences that in the grand scheme of things, in matters greater than yourself in distant worlds, will carry with it a disagreeable consequence. Your continued suffering will pay the ransom for many lost souls who because of you will know love.

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 4:33:34 AM   
BenevolentM


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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 4:42:56 AM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
Suppose you had an NDE experience and you were told that you needed to return. Why? It is because everything has consequences. Your absence would have consequences that in the grand scheme of things, in matters greater than yourself in distant worlds, will carry with it a disagreeable consequence. Your continued suffering will pay the ransom for many lost souls who because of you will know love.

I have a problem with that hypothesis because suffering and evil have no place in a world created by a pure eternal divinity who is nothing other than good, the unmoved-mover who has created all form and substance.

Other than that I would say I've suffered enough (especially on CollarChat), thanks all the same Jesus (or whoever)!

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 10/15/2012 4:45:30 AM >

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to BenevolentM)
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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 5:30:41 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
Suppose you had an NDE experience and you were told that you needed to return. Why? It is because everything has consequences. Your absence would have consequences that in the grand scheme of things, in matters greater than yourself in distant worlds, will carry with it a disagreeable consequence. Your continued suffering will pay the ransom for many lost souls who because of you will know love.

I have a problem with that hypothesis because suffering and evil have no place in a world created by a pure eternal divinity who is nothing other than good, the unmoved-mover who has created all form and substance.

Other than that I would say I've suffered enough (especially on CollarChat), thanks all the same Jesus (or whoever)!


I agree with you the airy fairy was getting a bit thick. As Padre Pio explained God is down to Earth experience whereas the devil is intense. Skepticism and faith go hand in hand though it is paradoxical. Why do you claim that "suffering and evil have no place in a world created by a pure eternal divinity who is nothing other than good, ..." In the image of God, not the person of God. Why didn't God make me an equal? Put simply, equality is a lie.

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 5:44:45 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

As Padre Pio explained God is down to Earth experience whereas the devil is intense.


Stated in another way, God is a Dominant who respects your limits. He will not reveal to you the fullness of his glory so as not to harm you. The devil could give a damn concerning what you can or cannot handle. Think of the rays of Satan as bullets or perhaps stated more precisely a form of nuclear energy. His rays are like that of the sun. If you stand in his light too long, you will get sun burnt. On the other hand, one can stand in the presence of God for an eternity with no harm coming to you.

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 6:59:01 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
Is only one person allowed post on this thread?


No, but you may not want to bother. It's not a coincidence that his threads tend to be one person.

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 9:28:54 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

On the other hand, one can stand in the presence of God for an eternity with no harm coming to you.

Been there, done that. Found it kind of BORRRRRINGGGG . . .

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 1:54:34 PM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
Why do you claim that "suffering and evil have no place in a world created by a pure eternal divinity who is nothing other than good, ..." In the image of God, not the person of God. Why didn't God make me an equal? Put simply, equality is a lie.

Its not a question about equality because (according to the old notions I mentioned) God is conceived as an eternal (i.e. everlasting rather than infinite) being of infinite capability (omnipotent), a being that exists outside of space and time. This is in stark contrast to human beings who are finite in every respect. From this Being all that is good emerges - creation and existence. Other than being a Being of infinite scope, and being intrinsically good, nothing else can be understood about God. This is pretty much the conception of God that developed with the emergence of Christianity from Late Antiquity and through the Medieval era, e.g with Anselm's ontological argument about God's existence.

However, a problem emerges. It is the question of evil and its effects such as suffering. If God created all (both substance and form - sorry about the philosophical terms), the universe and everything within it, then how can the manifold manifestations of evil occur, since he is a being of infinite good from which all that is good within the world is drawn?

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 10/15/2012 2:11:06 PM >

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to BenevolentM)
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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 2:51:10 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
Why do you claim that "suffering and evil have no place in a world created by a pure eternal divinity who is nothing other than good, ..." In the image of God, not the person of God. Why didn't God make me an equal? Put simply, equality is a lie.

Its not a question about equality because (according to the old notions I mentioned) God is conceived as an eternal (i.e. everlasting rather than infinite) being of infinite capability (omnipotent), a being that exists outside of space and time. This is in stark contrast to human beings who are finite in every respect. From this Being all that is good emerges - creation and existence. Other than being a Being of infinite scope, and being intrinsically good, nothing else can be understood about God. This is pretty much the conception of God that developed with the emergence of Christianity from Late Antiquity and through the Medieval era, e.g with Anselm's ontological argument about God's existence.

However, a problem emerges. It is the question of evil and its effects such as suffering. If God created all (both substance and form - sorry about the philosophical terms), the universe and everything within it, then how can the manifold manifestations of evil occur, since he is a being of infinite good from which all that is good within the world is drawn?


Your argument has logical difficulties. I don't suppose you are familiar with the work of the mathematician George Cantor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Cantor
There exists things beyond even the infinite. So what I am accusing you of is having a naive understanding of the infinite. Your arguments are out-of-date. God created all that is real, but did not create that which is unreal. Our free will permits us to do that, however. Our free will allows us to partake of the forbidden fruit which are things not of God, to explore delusion.

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 3:10:57 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Skepticism and faith go hand in hand though it is paradoxical.


In order to assess whether a thing is of God one must assess whether or not it is real. Hence, the need for skepticism.

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 3:23:36 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

On the other hand, one can stand in the presence of God for an eternity with no harm coming to you.

Been there, done that. Found it kind of BORRRRRINGGGG . . .


Against the backdrop of eternity simple pleasures are magnified. They become orgasmic. Ask yourself, what makes a thing boring? It is exhaustion. The mind is weak and has grown wary. In Heaven one never becomes exhausted, thus one is never bored.

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 5:27:59 PM   
Anaxagoras


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From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
Why do you claim that "suffering and evil have no place in a world created by a pure eternal divinity who is nothing other than good, ..." In the image of God, not the person of God. Why didn't God make me an equal? Put simply, equality is a lie.

Its not a question about equality because (according to the old notions I mentioned) God is conceived as an eternal (i.e. everlasting rather than infinite) being of infinite capability (omnipotent), a being that exists outside of space and time. This is in stark contrast to human beings who are finite in every respect. From this Being all that is good emerges - creation and existence. Other than being a Being of infinite scope, and being intrinsically good, nothing else can be understood about God. This is pretty much the conception of God that developed with the emergence of Christianity from Late Antiquity and through the Medieval era, e.g with Anselm's ontological argument about God's existence.

However, a problem emerges. It is the question of evil and its effects such as suffering. If God created all (both substance and form - sorry about the philosophical terms), the universe and everything within it, then how can the manifold manifestations of evil occur, since he is a being of infinite good from which all that is good within the world is drawn?

Your argument has logical difficulties. I don't suppose you are familiar with the work of the mathematician George Cantor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Cantor
There exists things beyond even the infinite. So what I am accusing you of is having a naive understanding of the infinite. Your arguments are out-of-date. God created all that is real, but did not create that which is unreal. Our free will permits us to do that, however. Our free will allows us to partake of the forbidden fruit which are things not of God, to explore delusion.

You don't understand the point since it wasn't truly based on the premise of the infinite. Neither would free will explain the prolific intensity of evil in the world if all creation came from a fundamentally good source. The words you use suggest you treat the contradicting points of others as part of a competition that you try to win, rather than considering them.

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

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RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience - 10/15/2012 8:43:31 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

You don't understand the point since it wasn't truly based on the premise of the infinite.


What proof do you have of this?

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