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ORIGINAL: Alecta

It's a combination that differs from person to person, I guess. We're all sadistic in slightly different ways after all.

Wanting to hurt others for your own hurt is an innate response (Bullies. Even the girl who killed herself was trying to hurt those who hurt her via suicide), but that's not sadism. It is possible one can be taught to enjoy the violence and harm, or vengeance, to an extent; just as much as one could naturally enjoy it or not.

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ORIGINAL: SacredDepravity

I don't think it is fair to assess nature/nurture based on the context of bullying. The phenomenon has a lot of factors including various developmental and social elements. The reality is that far more of us are bullies than really want to admit it. Growing up, I was hurt far more by casual comments and mostly sub/unconscious behavior from my peers. I could understand overt behavior for the angry and insecure reaction that it was. What I couldn't process as well were people talking poorly about me in my presence as if I wasn't even there overhearing every single careless word, vicous gossip no one ever thought would get back to me, or just the casual movement in the opposite direction and turning away when I spoke. It's so much more than getting beaten up or otherwise obviously abused. Most of us have been bullied or been the bully.

We see it in adult life when people have a very specific idea about who an abuser is. They have to have some of the many overt acts that we attribute to bullies. The reality is that things are out of control long before the abuser ever lands a single punch, if they ever do. As for the abuser, he or she wants to compare him/herself to some other person who is further up the violence chain. THAT is abuse. What he/she does is not. Even if it is, it could be worse and they would NEVER do THAT. Some people call it being in a relationship, but things like raised voices, cussing, namecalling, berating, undermining, and such are equally abuse as beating someone to a bloody pulp, but far more difficult to see.

When you ask if being bullied has anything to do with your sadism, I would say of course. Everything contributes to who we are. Everything. From our genes, chemical and biological exposures, habits and personalities of the people around us, geography...everything. An example I give often is that of being a surfer. If you live near the water, you may learn to surf. You can learn to be very good at it or you may take to it very naturally with no significant instruction. At the same time, you could have that same natural ability and never learn to surf if you are born in Kansas and live there your whole life. Additionally, we learn to encourage and curb all kinds of "natural" tendencies. We learn to control our sexual appetites, manage anger, regulate our bodily functions, and more. Being born one way or another really has nothing to do with whether or not we are expected to behave a specific way. In some cultures, showing intelligence is generally accepted as a good thing. In others, we are expected to limit how much intellect we show in mixed company. As to sadism, some express it freely while others learn to express it in more controlled and acceptable ways. Learning to exercise sadism in consentual and limited manner or in a less controlled manner is a matter of having a propensity AND being taught what is acceptable within the society. Further, if controlled behavior is not modeled, then a person may not learn to regulate. Additionally, there is a whole reward system surrounding every behavior. If uncontrolled sadism gains advantage to a person, they will likely continue. If certain expressions of sadism are not rewarded or even punished, it is less likely that the behavior will continue. Let's then factor in things like physical malformation of the brain structures, various medical conditions up to and including mental illness, effects of drugs or other substances, and survival situations and all this chicken and egg turns into a discussion about kumquats.

Personality traits just are. Lots of things factor in. Lots of things regulate our behavior or dysregulate it. And if you really think sadism isn't that common, look at the longevity and number of clones of shows such as American Idol, as well as the huge drop off of viewership after the first few week (you know, after all the people who can't sing humiliate themselves on national TV have come and gone). This is sadism too. This is highly destructive, non consentual sadism, the akin to the bullying and abuse I discussed earlier. What is rare is for someone to learn to both enjoy and control their sadism in a healthy way. It means, whatever root to which you wish to attibute your sadism, you have learned self awareness, self control, and social consciousness. It means something went right. I think we spend too much time drinking the Kool Aid and trying to figure out what went wrong. Neither our genes nor our experiences make us who we are. It is our choices which define us.

SD

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Personally, I am of the belief that you are always what you are. You are no more "created" a sadist than you can be taught to be gay, or turned male. We are always these things, just may not know them.

Now upbringing/environment contributes greatly to how we control these urges. How we find out about them, how we are brought up to treat people. To know that boundary between pleasurable pain, and digging a hole in the back yard.