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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/16/2012 1:59:34 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		It's different because Canada has no right to refuse an American (however big a fuckwit he happens to be) access to their cheese-eating, hockey playing, socialist dystopia.
(Obvs)

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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/16/2012 2:25:44 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		I don't agree that free speech is dying. It is alive and well in the U.S. Again, other countries have chosen to define things differently. In some of these cases they are defining hate speech in ways that seem unobjectionable to me (e.g., Canada), in other countries (many European countries) they protect some hateful speech, but not others (which does seem objectionable). I do agree that many of the European laws are openly racist and hypocritical, and do not stand up to any kind of jurisprudential analysis.

Again, I support the First Amendment and how it has been interpreted in the U.S. And please let us be clear that all speech is NOT protected even in the U.S. For one example, child pornography is NOT protected speech.

Also, we have time and place restrictions even on other speech. For example, I would personally say that a person's freedom of speech should not allow a high school student to repeatedly bully a gay student in a public high school, even if the bullying is limited to verbal abuse. Let us not turn our notion of freedom of speech into an open-ended tolerance of what is simply bad behavior. After all, our notion of civil liberties is defined in relation to the rights of others (to attend school, to lead their lives, to be free from interference). Since when does freedom of speech allow bullies to reign supreme? It doesn't. And in many places in the US, there are anti-bullying laws currently in effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-bullying_legislation

Do these anti-bullying laws represent an erosion of free speech? Or do they represent a call for decency, and a respect for the victims right to live their lives free from harassment? Rights still need to be balanced. The Constitution does not ever envision a situation where rights are not balanced against each other.




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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/16/2012 4:01:27 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

My feeling is we shouldnt have to legislate human decency... unfortunately that isnt the case.


My feeling is legislating human decency will end it.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/16/2012 4:04:45 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There have been times in our history when what is considered decent then would be just the opposite of what we consider decent today…And if it were not for free speech nothing would have changed.


Exactly. Free speech is diversity, which is the sole route around local minima, among other things.

Diversity is strength. Even neonazi fuckwits are worth keeping around, so long as we can afford it.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/16/2012 4:10:53 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Some are rotten to the core.


Then why not enact laws to put them out of our misery instead?

A prognom is infinitely preferrable to restricting liberties in order to hide crap under the carpet.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/16/2012 6:30:50 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Some are rotten to the core.


Then why not enact laws to put them out of our misery instead?

A prognom is infinitely preferrable to restricting liberties in order to hide crap under the carpet.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



What liberty was restricted in this case? That he wasnt allowed to enter another country? When are any of us guaranteed that?



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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/16/2012 7:05:41 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What liberty was restricted in this case? That he wasnt allowed to enter another country? When are any of us guaranteed that?


I misunderstood the context in which you posted. I thought you were saying people who are rotten to the core should be denied freedom of speech.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/16/2012 7:27:22 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		No, its always been my belief that some people are good.. some are rotten... and the rest just try and stay out of the way.

lol.. edited for spelling

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 10/16/2012 7:37:57 PM >

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/16/2012 7:33:59 PM   
Aswad


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Status: offline 		I can get behind that, I think.

My apologies for the misunderstanding.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/16/2012 10:17:11 PM   
leonine


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From: [email protected]
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
Is fear of violent reactions among Muslims cowing the Western world?

This is constantly said by conservatives in the UK: but I notice that the last person given a court sentence for his words was a Muslim who expressed his anger at the British Army on Facebook. And oddly enough, none of the people who posted public death threats against him afterwards have even had the police knock on their doors. Free speech for some...

Yes, free speech is in danger: it always has been and always will be, because there are always people who feel offended or threatened by words, and some of them are in a position to do something about it. But overall, and bearing in mind that freedom always needs to be defended, I'd say this is a pretty good time for free speech.

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Gonna pack in my hand, pick up on a piece of land and build myself a cabin in the woods.
It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/17/2012 2:53:16 AM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		It seems to me from reading the links that much of what is stated in the links is misinformed and a generalisation, for instance they both seem to take Europe as a whole and not as individual nations. Reading closely, especially the links inside the two links DC posted, much stated is hearsay and short on actual fact.

One other thing that clearly stands out is the claim that hate laws are one sided. Here is what happened to some protesters urging murder at a protest over the Danish Cartoon. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6904622.stm Please note they were not arrested for protesting but for stiring up violence. Are we really, as civilised people, sugesting this is free speech and should be allowed ? I think the reverse is true and the Courts got it right.

Here is one mans view of Politcal Correctness in the UK..... Worth nine minutes of anyones time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo

Edited for spelling.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 10/17/2012 2:54:15 AM >

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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/18/2012 5:26:07 AM   
leonine


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From: [email protected]
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

It seems to me from reading the links that much of what is stated in the links is misinformed and a generalisation, for instance they both seem to take Europe as a whole and not as individual nations. Reading closely, especially the links inside the two links DC posted, much stated is hearsay and short on actual fact.

One other thing that clearly stands out is the claim that hate laws are one sided. Here is what happened to some protesters urging murder at a protest over the Danish Cartoon. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6904622.stm Please note they were not arrested for protesting but for stiring up violence. Are we really, as civilised people, sugesting this is free speech and should be allowed ? I think the reverse is true and the Courts got it right.

I have noticed for a while that there is a lot of push behind the meme of Muslims-taking-over, and up till now I've assumed it was just general racism: but I've recently encountered the theory that it's promoted by Zionists to scare European Jews into moving to Israel (which to justify its expansion needs more population growth than it can manage without immigration.) Now I'm instinctively sceptical about conspiracy theories, because in my experience most real life conspiracies are total screwups, but there might be a grain of truth in the idea, and not only for Zionists.

It is a documented fact, not a conspiracy theory, that Biblical fundamentalists want Israel to hold all the "Holy Land" because it's a precondition of the End Times (the British politician who originally established the State of Palestine is known to have done so for explicitly Biblical reasons.) And for a serious racist, something which puts down Muslims and chases Jews out of Europe is a double win.

It would explain why so many Americans proclaim as a fact that Muslims already control Europe and London is under Sharia law. I'd put it down to their proud ignorance about any other country, but it might also be that they have a positive reason to promote the idea.

Just something to think about..
quote:


Here is one mans view of Politcal Correctness in the UK..... Worth nine minutes of anyones time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo



It's not widely realised that the term "political correctness" was originally a liberals' joke against their over-zealous friends; but some right-wingers picked up the term and thought it was meant in all seriousness, and wrote articles denouncing it till the factoid was established.


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Gonna pack in my hand, pick up on a piece of land and build myself a cabin in the woods.
It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
- James Taylor

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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/18/2012 8:34:16 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine
It's not widely realised that the term "political correctness" was originally a liberals' joke against their over-zealous friends; but some right-wingers picked up the term and thought it was meant in all seriousness, and wrote articles denouncing it till the factoid was established.

Most of that seemed to be ridiculous Mail "looney left" stories from the '80s retooled for a new purpose, I've noticed...

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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/18/2012 4:46:36 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Except some of the looney left stories were correct......

Kremlin bosses " We cant bomb London as we will hit "Nuclear free Harringay !"

Nuclear free, my arse....as the man would say.

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RE: Interesting Articles on Free Speech - 10/19/2012 2:57:27 AM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I have made my reasons for being okay with ante-hate speech laws. The BNP (Racists party) rather proves my point. There is no doubt this is inflamatory and has put the couple concerned in danger.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20000243

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