RE: Iran VS Israel

RE: Iran VS Israel (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/22/2012 8:47:41 AM)
quote: I suggest you keep it straight. Firstly, I didn't refer to you as a Marxist - I suggested you write a Marxist interpretation of history on the ME. Many apply that reading without being Marxist. Secondly, you repeatedly inferred that I agreed with the war. Here are a few of your absurdly hysterical responses when I only said the issue wasn't truly black and white: I can understand why you would now weasel out of your Marxist comment. Lame, tho. As to the war, the issue for me was always about responsibility for the subsequent deaths; never about your opinion on the war. Whether the deaths were caused by insurgents is immaterial. The deaths followed directly from Bush's stupidity. Why would he not expect insurgents? He was warned before the war that he was going in with an insufficient occupying force. quote: - I didn't blame him for the war. I simply said he should have complied after you falsely claimed that he had with a 12,000 page declaration that told the UN what they already knew. He agreed to comply with the UN resolution, then didn't, and didn't act on the imminent threat of war. Saddam explained his motives in his predeath interrogation. Debate it with him, if you wish. quote: I assume that swipe was aimed in part at myself since you use the same words I used to describe your behaviour. You assume too much. If it were aimed at you I would have addressed it to you. quote: However, you actually justified the violence Iran, Syria and the insurgent terrorists wrought on the Iraqi civil populace. That is twisted. You have no right to adopt the moral high ground. I do not justify violence. I merely pointed out the realpolitik. There is no morality in armed invasion of a sovereign nation.

vincentML -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/22/2012 2:35:47 PM)
FR Is this thread still alive? Oh, good! It is. Just a few nasty posts missing. So, where were we . . . . . lmao!!

tweakabelle -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/22/2012 11:53:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML FR Is this thread still alive? Oh, good! It is. Just a few nasty posts missing. So, where were we . . . . . lmao!! It's good to see the thread survive the efforts to close it down. Latest news is conflicting reports from Washington about one-on-one talks with Iran to reach an agreement over outstanding issues. It will be welcome news if Obama and the Ayatollahs can reach some kind of agreement that satisfies everyone - the only loser there will be Netanyahu who will have lost his major scare tactic for the forseeable future. It will be good to get the Iran issue off the table. That will allow us all to focus on the real issues, first and foremost of which is ending the Palestine/Israel conflict permanently. Despite his disappointing first term, Obama will be best placed to take the initiative here and drag Netanyahu into meaningful negotiations with the Palestinians. So if the US-Iranian impasse is resolved, there may be grounds for some limited optimism that the seemingly interminable Palestine/Israel conflict will be resolved too.

ermood -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 1:38:43 AM)
Those talks between the US and Iran will end up in nothing, the US will only agree if Iran will close its nuclear program, Iran will not close 60 years of work just to get the US and Israel happy. The Israeli/Palestine conflict will only end when Palestine becomes a member of the UN, wich is doubtfull if it will happen.

tweakabelle -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 1:43:34 AM)
Below is a link to some interesting speculation and analysis on the outcomes of the elections in the US and Israel, and the implications for the 'peace process' Netanyahu and Israel/Palestine. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/22/israel-binyamin-netanyahu-mitt-romney

ermood -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 2:26:42 AM)
I've watched the debate yesterday but turned it off after a hour, to much lies. For example, Romney (we see him as a typical american (ignorent and just talking about something where he doesn't know anything about)) said that the US has never supported dictators/dictatorships... well even a pig knows that's bullshit. Obama said, that Iran said that Israel should be whiped of the map... this is in fact a big lie, and Obama should know that, it was just a propaganda based translation. And for the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, as long as the western gouverments refuse to put pressure on Israel for illegaly occupying Palestinian ground then this will never end, Hamas wants the borders back to the day that they where created, something Israel will never do. Let me put it this way, as long as Israel can't behave like an adult nation this conflict will lead nowhere...

Politesub53 -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 3:16:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ermood Obama said, that Iran said that Israel should be whiped of the map... this is in fact a big lie, and Obama should know that, it was just a propaganda based translation. There is no doubt the Iranian President said exactly what you claim he didnt say. It may well have been empty rhetoric for his home audience, but never the less he still said it. To suggest it was a propoganda based translation is stupid. Ahmeninejad was refused permission to visit one of his close aides in prison last week. It seems internal political conflicts in Iran could well be his undoing. It will be interesting to see which way the Iranian regime move politically if, and I suspect its more like when, Ahmendinejad leaves office.

ermood -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 3:46:52 AM)
quote: There is no doubt the Iranian President said exactly what you claim he didnt say http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/news/rumor-of-the-century/ http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-wiped-off-the-map-the-rumor-of-the-century-fabricated-by-the-us-media-to-justify-an-all-out-war-on-iran/21188 http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025 So... he said what? and who is stupid now? quote: Ahmeninejad was refused permission to visit one of his close aides in prison last week. It seems internal political conflicts in Iran could well be his undoing. It will be interesting to see which way the Iranian regime move politically if, and I suspect its more like when, Ahmendinejad leaves office. Do you actually know how the gouverment in Iran works? Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad doesn't have much power, almost all power is in the hands of supreme leader Ali Khamenei. True he was refused for to visit Tehran's Evin Prison, but he doesn't even has to ask premision for it. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/10/22/268190/ahmadinejad-repeats-prison-visit-request/

Politesub53 -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 3:57:40 AM)
Ermood........ Get a grip and read the link I gave you.

ermood -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 3:59:20 AM)
You didn't gave me any link.... As for you, read mine... maybe you learn something;)

vincentML -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 4:25:12 AM)
quote: So... he said what? and who is stupid now? Ermood . . . You say Ahmininejad did not say "Israel must be wiped off the map." Instead he said: "this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time," quoting the Imam. And you claim there is a distinction between the two? One is just as threatening as the other.

vincentML -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 4:30:06 AM)
quote: And for the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, as long as the western gouverments refuse to put pressure on Israel for illegaly occupying Palestinian ground then this will never end, Hamas wants the borders back to the day that they where created, something Israel will never do. Let me put it this way, as long as Israel can't behave like an adult nation this conflict will lead nowhere... Ermood . . . This conflict is leading exactly to where Israeli Nationalism wants it to go: total domination and occupation of Samaria and Judea by Israel.

vincentML -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 4:37:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Below is a link to some interesting speculation and analysis on the outcomes of the elections in the US and Israel, and the implications for the 'peace process' Netanyahu and Israel/Palestine. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/22/israel-binyamin-netanyahu-mitt-romney Tweake . . . I understand the nuances regarding how Obama will be free to act in a second term. However, last night's debate was shameful pandering by both candidates to Israel and her supporters. Obama is heavily influenced by the Clintons. He will not jeapordise Hillary's candidacy in 2016 by showing a lack of support for Israeli Nationalism.

DomYngBlk -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 7:32:56 AM)
Not sure if you are right about that influence from the Clintons, ML. Hillary and Barack might get along but I think that is as far as it goes.

vincentML -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 8:05:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk Not sure if you are right about that influence from the Clintons, ML. Hillary and Barack might get along but I think that is as far as it goes. I am not talking about friendship or getting along. I was referring to political alliance, D. At the moment Barack needs Bubba, and if Barack is re-elected Hillary will need him in 2016.

kdsub -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 9:29:02 AM)
quote: Obama is heavily influenced by the Clintons. He will not jeapordise Hillary's candidacy in 2016 by showing a lack of support for Israeli Nationalism. Vince...Obama is influenced alright...but not by the Clintons...but by the American people both Republican and Democrat...Anyone...any side… negotiating in the area of the Middle East had better realize this. I believe the American people want a just settlement but they are nowhere near abandoning Israel in their fight for survival. Butch

Politesub53 -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 9:36:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ermood You didn't gave me any link.... As for you, read mine... maybe you learn something;) Correct, I thought I had added the link but hadnt. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20024287

vincentML -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 10:26:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: Obama is heavily influenced by the Clintons. He will not jeapordise Hillary's candidacy in 2016 by showing a lack of support for Israeli Nationalism. Vince...Obama is influenced alright...but not by the Clintons...but by the American people both Republican and Democrat...Anyone...any side… negotiating in the area of the Middle East had better realize this. I believe the American people want a just settlement but they are nowhere near abandoning Israel in their fight for survival. Butch Butch . . . . Israel controls most of the Palestinian land east of the 1967 line. She continues to maintain troops and build settlements on Palestinian land and in East Jerusalem in violation of UN Security Council Resolution #242 adopted in 1967, the Oslo Accords of 1993, and Article #49 of the 4th Geneva Convention. At this point it is really Palestine's fight for survival at stake. Please don't pretend that the "American people" know what a just settlement looks like and what it will take to get there. For 35 years Israel delayed removing her troops while aggressively building out colonies in the Palestinian sections as a "security" measure. Now that she has the West Bank pretty much under IDF military control the Palestinians are no longer a security threat. That's why Israel has now pivoted her attention to Iran's nuclear program. The meanwhile, she continues the land grab in Samaria and Judea. Bibi is bull shitting us.

YN -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 10:40:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: So... he said what? and who is stupid now? Ermood . . . You say Ahmininejad did not say "Israel must be wiped off the map." Instead he said: "this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time," quoting the Imam. And you claim there is a distinction between the two? One is just as threatening as the other. There is a distinction between a regime change and genocide. The US claims over the hoped result for Iraq is an example.

YN -> RE: Iran VS Israel (10/23/2012 10:42:54 AM)
The current Israeli president and his platform is unpopular in his nation and there is an election coming the January. Perhaps some of the Israeli saber waving is electioneering rhetoric.

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