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DesideriScuri -> RE: Town Hall Debate (10/19/2012 8:45:42 PM)
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ORIGINAL: stellauk
Life isn't just about business and you don't only go to college or university to start your own business or serve someone else's but to invest in yourself and your education so that you can make some contribution to society.
And, you do that by starting your own business or contributing in someone elses.
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I'm sorry but I don't find the joke funny, in fact I find it in poor taste.
Kids are encouraged to enrol onto courses on the promise of a career or a brighter future.
Perhaps that's the way it goes over there, but there is no promise of a career or brighter future. That is up to you. You get your education and then you have to actually use it. Just because you graduate doesn't mean you will be hired, or that you will have some level of guaranteed income.
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Art students are encouraged because they are talented and unlike most kids they've probably been practising their creativity for years and investing in it just to get a place on the course. Because enough people resent paying for things they don't receive any direct benefit from much of education costs money in tuition fees, kids have to work or borrow money and get into debt.
I work in performing arts and you get the same thing with drama students. They study to acquire a method or skills or techniques and all come out with the idea that once they've graduated they've made the grade for paid work. Only they haven't, and they still have to invest and take on menial work and spend years running round after auditions just for the chance of work.
That sounds an awful lot like life, actually.
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I'm sorry but I really don't find other people's misfortunes funny or something worth making a joke out of.
I think you are being too sensitive about this particular visual. There is no "misfortune" with a kid getting an art degree (or any other degree) and there not being a job waiting for him when he gets out. There have been people here who have sued their high school because they didn't get accepted at their chosen school, and sometimes, they weren't qualified to go to their chosen school. There have been lawsuits against schools after students don't get into law schools, or pass certification tests. That isn't the school's fault (usually). The school doesn't guarantee anything. Education is what you make of it.
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So you think art is not necessary to business or to society?
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It is not as necessary as other pursuits, necessarily. Do we need art teachers? Absolutely. Do we need people who understand art and the best way for it to be displayed and/or maintained? Absolutely. Do we need the artists themselves? Absolutely. But, I also believe in the Market and in letting the Market decide. Thus, you may be one of the very best play-doh sculptors, but if there is no need for another play-doh sculptor, why do you deserve a job?
I have no problem with people pursuing their passions. None at all. However, if you can't make enough money to support yourself, you had better find another something to do to supplement that.
I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with the statement I bolded. If it wasn't for people studying art and other creative fields there would be no business, and you would be destitute and starving.
So, there was a need for those people to study art, then.
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Not everyone is Andy Warhol or Clint Eastwood, in fact that vast majority aren't, and they are essential for everything from design through to advertising, marketing, promotion through to corporate videos - things which need actors, crew, designers, artists, photographers and musicians.
Yep, and there will always be jobs that hire artists, or art majors. That's fine. I have no problem with it. But, I'm not sure there is as much a need for that as there is business majors, engineers, etc.
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One of my claims to fame is that several years ago I supplied voices to characters in Nintendo games sold across Western Europe and the States.
Congrats! That's great! Are you allowed to tell which games and which characters? I have little talent for doing different voices. I'm always in awe of those that can bring several vastly different characters to life.
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I have no problem with people pursuing their passions.
Is this what you think?
Yes. Yes it is. That's why I said it.
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Okay, I didn't get the chance to go to college but next year I celebrate my 20th anniversary of artistic work. I've invested around $500,000 into my own work, created about a dozen small theatres, influenced the creation of thousands more, as a result of my work I've raised around $1 million or more for local community schemes and charities.
Currently I'm in post-production of my first independent movie, act as a resource for professional actors, develop culture in the community projects and run workshops for disaffected people such as the homeless. Quite a number of those who've participated have quit drugs or alcohol and found their way back into full time employment.
That is truly honorable. Congrats on your success.
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I'm not an isolated case, there's an entire industry doing this and many artists, musicians and actors work in the community with disaffected people.
Sure it's my passion but it's also pretty much my career and profession.
And, the best jobs, or the most rewarding jobs, tend to be those jobs that align with your passion.
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I also disagree with the arts being left to market forces. When you leave cultural development to the private sector and market forces only that which is profitable and has mass market appeal is funded - therefore only commercial art gets supported and also it only appeals top the lowest common denominator.
Leaving the arts and cultural development to market forces and the private sector is why we now have reality TV, celebrity culture, why galleries, community centres and libraries are being closed down or stripped of their funding, and why both the film industry and music industry are rapidly diminishing.
People choose to watch the drivel that is coming out now. Reality TV will eventually find itself on the outs with the consumer. Jersey Shore is in it's final season. American Idol is starting to lose it's luster. I still, to this day, can't believe what passes for consumed TV today. The popularity of celebrity magazines is mind-numbing. But, if enough people are going to be willing to watch it, and/or pay to watch it, it'll run.
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This is why you are now getting teenagers who prefer to listen to older bands like the Rolling Stones and Beach Boys rather than today's music which is being produced for them.
And, guess what. The Market will take care of that. It may not be as quick as we'd like, but it's the best way to supply the most in the most efficient manner. If new groups aren't making music the way it's desired, what will happen? Will we have to buy the album anyway?
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Leaving the arts and culture to market forces is why you get stuff like 50 Shades of Grey promoted ad nauseum.
You know, say what you want about 50 Shades, but that shit sold like crazy. That shit sold, not because people had to buy it, but because people wanted to buy it.
So, if you get a degree in Play-Doh sculpting, are you telling me that you deserve a job?
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