Grade the Second Debate (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> Grade the Second Debate (10/16/2012 10:46:10 PM)

I watched the second debate on tape delay. I thought Obama did a much better job and spoke credibly on the issues. Romney did not build on his first debate performance, and what he said seemed more tired and repetitive the second time.

Romney failed to credibly demonstrate how he could increase military defense spending, cut taxes, and lower the deficit. He just failed to make this point.

Obama effectively tagged Romney with conservative social issues like wanting to cut funding for planned parenthood. Obama never mentioned the strong rebound in the stock market, which I think is a dumb omission on his part. Romney, of course, is smart not to mention the stock market.

What irks me about Romney is how he keeps dumping the poor economic performance of the past four years on Obama's policies, but he NEVER MENTIONS either the great recession or the causes behind the economic collapse. The real reason for the USA's poor economic performance are related to the housing and banking crisis that crescendo-ed in 2007-08.

In general, I hated most of the question asked by the audience.

The one question I would have asked would have been: What do you think of US Supreme Court's Citizen United Decision and how is that affecting our Democracy here in the US? Is there anything you would like to change about that decision?




DomYngBlk -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 5:01:27 AM)

Disqualified himself from being President. Can't even keep the facts about a Foreign Policy issue straight...........see ya willard




subspaceseven -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 8:10:42 AM)

well the one thing is willard did not lie as much...this time only telling 31 pieces of BS in 41 minutes..

But hey he is the etch a sketch candidate..

as for the 31.....

“I want to make sure we keep our Pell grant program growing. We’re also going to have our loan program, so that people are able to afford school.” The ryan budget cuts Pell grants cutting off 1 million students

“I put out a five-point plan that gets America 12 million new jobs in four years and rising take-home pay.” The Washington Post’s in-house fact checker tore Romney’s claim that he will create 12 million jobs to shreds. The Post wrote that the “‘new math’” in Romney’s plan “doesn’t add up.” In awarding the claim four Pinocchios — the most untrue possible rating, the Post expressed incredulity at the fact Romney would personally stand behind such a flawed, baseless claim.

“And the president’s right in terms of the additional oil production, but none of it came on federal land. As a matter of fact, oil production is down 14 percent this year on federal land, and gas production was down 9 percent.”
“Overall, oil production on federal land under Obama is up from 566 million barrels in 2008 to 626 million barrels in 2011, a 10.6 percent increase.”

“Because the president cut in half the number of licenses and permits for drilling on federal lands, and in federal waters.”
The oil and gas industry is sitting on 7,000 approved permits to drill, where it hasn’t begun exploring or developing. Two-thirds of “acreage leased by [oil] industry lies idle”

“I believe very much in our renewable capabilities; ethanol, wind, solar will be an important part of our energy mix.”
Romney is actually against a one-year renewal of the wind production tax credit. The wind production tax credit has led to $14 billion of investment in 2011 and tens of thousands of American jobs.

“And coal, coal production is not up; coal jobs are not up.” 1,500 coal jobs have been created under Obama.

I could go on, but you get the point




Lucylastic -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 8:30:04 AM)

http://factcheck.org/2012/10/factchecking-the-hofstra-debate/


By the by
I can't believe Rmoney actually said he has a "binder full of women" then went on to say he gave his female employ time to leave early, so she could go home to cook dinner.




JanahX -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 8:33:37 AM)

LMAO - what an idiot.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://factcheck.org/2012/10/factchecking-the-hofstra-debate/


By the by
I can't believe Rmoney actually said he has a "binder full of women" then went on to say he gave his female employ time to leave early, so she could go home to cook dinner.






vincentML -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 8:34:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://factcheck.org/2012/10/factchecking-the-hofstra-debate/


By the by
I can't believe Rmoney actually said he has a "binder full of women" then went on to say he gave his female employ time to leave early, so she could go home to cook dinner.


[:D] Saw this on The Daily Kos today: Marriage should be defined between a man and a binder.




Lucylastic -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 8:45:45 AM)


heh

[image]local://upfiles/228382/41DA3A9E719E42BCBC6F8DC715AEAD54.jpg[/image]




defiantbadgirl -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 8:48:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Obama never mentioned the strong rebound in the stock market, which I think is a dumb omission on his part.


Another thing Obama hasn't been saying in the debates is that Republicans deliberately voted no on jobs bills during the recession just to try to make him a one term president. They even admitted it! He's mentioned it several times in the past, but why not during the debates? Republican leaders have already proven they don't care about jobs, so why not bring it up every time Romney mentions jobs? He only had two years to make a difference before the party of no gained majority in the House and did everything they could to halt economic growth. Two years, not four. Do so many Americans really not know that a president's hands are tied without the cooperation of Congress? **Sighs** how to explain how bills are passed into law without sounding condescending.




cloudboy -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 11:46:07 AM)


I was looking at Polling Data, and there is a 67.9% chance of Obama winning Ohio. Then then there is a 42% chance that Ohio will be the tipping point of the election.

In case you can't add this up, this means that 49 states are mostly irrelevant to determining the election outcome.





cloudboy -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 11:47:56 AM)


Classic Republican in the sense the ideology is always more important than facts and good, truthful information.

(1) Ideology
(2) Spin




DomKen -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 1:15:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
By the by
I can't believe Rmoney actually said he has a "binder full of women" then went on to say he gave his female employ time to leave early, so she could go home to cook dinner.


Sadly this was yet another lie by Romney. He didn't direct his headhunters to find women for his cabinent. A group of organizations that favor increasing representation of women at the highest levels of government produced the 'binders' and presented the candidates to the Governor which they planned to do no matter who won that election.




wnyThroatLover -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 1:16:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Obama never mentioned the strong rebound in the stock market, which I think is a dumb omission on his part.


Another thing Obama hasn't been saying in the debates is that Republicans deliberately voted no on jobs bills during the recession just to try to make him a one term president. They even admitted it! He's mentioned it several times in the past, but why not during the debates? Republican leaders have already proven they don't care about jobs, so why not bring it up every time Romney mentions jobs? He only had two years to make a difference before the party of no gained majority in the House and did everything they could to halt economic growth. Two years, not four. Do so many Americans really not know that a president's hands are tied without the cooperation of Congress? **Sighs** how to explain how bills are passed into law without sounding condescending.


It seems Obama wants to win this election with his dignity in tact instead of stooping to their level.




alwayssummer -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 1:18:31 PM)

It's incomprehensible that any person running for President cannot automatically answer yes when asked if he supports equal pay for women. Mitt refused to answer the question. So his answer is no. Who thinks like that? I cannot even imagine his mind set or that of his "base" that control/ agree with him. I mean if there were ever a place to pander and lie about his (demented) paternalism, in order to join the rest of us in the 21st century, it would be in response to this question. But noooo...fair pay for women, that's I guess just a bridge too far.

Instead he comes up with his phony "binders of woman" story. Granted it was funny to see it perplex the media ( eg. Chris Mathews,"Binders of woman...what is that some kind of bondage thing?") then explode across the twitterverse.

But last night and today the facts come out- Romney completely lied in the whole story. Factually, he never was concerned about hiring women, never visited woman's groups (eeek... sharp tongued women) to get applicants for high level state jobs, never compiled those "binders" of women. Strong women groups organized prior to the Ma election determined to pressure whomever won that election to level the percentage of women with men leading state agencies(then only 30%). Romney was presented with both their "binders" and the pressure to enact equal opportunity and hiring. Reportedly he hired women mostly to lead inconsequential agencies, was less than supportive of these women, and left office with the percentage of top women at 27%...below his election.

So Romney lied outright last night to millions and millions of people on the facts of his hiring of women while governor. I'd be surprised, to this day, if Romney has ever sought a woman for a high level position. I suspect there were never any female partners at Bain during his tenure, certainly never any proportion close to reflecting equal opportunity. But I bet there were way over 50% of women as secretaries there, secretaries paying a higher tax rate than Romney or the partners.

Romney is just a compulsive liar...last night just another chapter in this fantasy "Mitt Saves The Little People", pockets minimum 100 million tax free, and gets his best trophy job ever...

Here's the article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/romney-binder-full-of-women.

Another version by Boston Phoenix reporter David Bernstein,http://blog/talking politics/archive/2012/10/16/mind-the-binder

There's a point at which serial lying becomes an insult to the intelligence of the public. Last night Romney passed that tipping point on
so many issues, but to women his lies are so clueless in their conception that he simply does not seem to be living in a shared reality.




subrob1967 -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 1:42:53 PM)

Obama B+
Romney C
Crowley inturrupting, asskissing and spoon feeding Obama all night long F-




subrob1967 -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 1:44:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: alwayssummer

It's incomprehensible that any person running for President cannot automatically answer yes when asked if he supports equal pay for women. Mitt refused to answer the question. So his answer is no. Who thinks like that? I cannot even imagine his mind set or that of his "base" that control/ agree with him. I mean if there were ever a place to pander and lie about his (demented) paternalism, in order to join the rest of us in the 21st century, it would be in response to this question. But noooo...fair pay for women, that's I guess just a bridge too far.

Instead he comes up with his phony "binders of woman" story. Granted it was funny to see it perplex the media ( eg. Chris Mathews,"Binders of woman...what is that some kind of bondage thing?") then explode across the twitterverse.

But last night and today the facts come out- Romney completely lied in the whole story. Factually, he never was concerned about hiring women, never visited woman's groups (eeek... sharp tongued women) to get applicants for high level state jobs, never compiled those "binders" of women. Strong women groups organized prior to the Ma election determined to pressure whomever won that election to level the percentage of women with men leading state agencies(then only 30%). Romney was presented with both their "binders" and the pressure to enact equal opportunity and hiring. Reportedly he hired women mostly to lead inconsequential agencies, was less than supportive of these women, and left office with the percentage of top women at 27%...below his election.

So Romney lied outright last night to millions and millions of people on the facts of his hiring of women while governor. I'd be surprised, to this day, if Romney has ever sought a woman for a high level position. I suspect there were never any female partners at Bain during his tenure, certainly never any proportion close to reflecting equal opportunity. But I bet there were way over 50% of women as secretaries there, secretaries paying a higher tax rate than Romney or the partners.

Romney is just a compulsive liar...last night just another chapter in this fantasy "Mitt Saves The Little People", pockets minimum 100 million tax free, and gets his best trophy job ever...

Here's the article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/romney-binder-full-of-women.

Another version by Boston Phoenix reporter David Bernstein,http://blog/talking politics/archive/2012/10/16/mind-the-binder

There's a point at which serial lying becomes an insult to the intelligence of the public. Last night Romney passed that tipping point on
so many issues, but to women his lies are so clueless in their conception that he simply does not seem to be living in a shared reality.



Have you looked at Obama's own staff? At least Romney had more women in leadership roles than men.

Stop being such a hypocrite and google the truth.




tazzygirl -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 1:48:17 PM)

quote:

Have you looked at Obama's own staff?


http://www.cawp.rutgers.edu/fast_facts/levels_of_office/Executive-ObamaAppts.php




Hillwilliam -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 1:54:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Obama B+
Romney C
Crowley inturrupting, asskissing and spoon feeding Obama all night long F-

I'll buy that grading.

The problem is. Can a C student bring us out of this mess?




RacerJim -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 2:26:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: alwayssummer

It's incomprehensible that any person running for President cannot automatically answer yes when asked if he supports equal pay for women. Mitt refused to answer the question. So his answer is no. Who thinks like that? I cannot even imagine his mind set or that of his "base" that control/ agree with him. I mean if there were ever a place to pander and lie about his (demented) paternalism, in order to join the rest of us in the 21st century, it would be in response to this question. But noooo...fair pay for women, that's I guess just a bridge too far.

Instead he comes up with his phony "binders of woman" story. Granted it was funny to see it perplex the media ( eg. Chris Mathews,"Binders of woman...what is that some kind of bondage thing?") then explode across the twitterverse.

But last night and today the facts come out- Romney completely lied in the whole story. Factually, he never was concerned about hiring women, never visited woman's groups (eeek... sharp tongued women) to get applicants for high level state jobs, never compiled those "binders" of women. Strong women groups organized prior to the Ma election determined to pressure whomever won that election to level the percentage of women with men leading state agencies(then only 30%). Romney was presented with both their "binders" and the pressure to enact equal opportunity and hiring. Reportedly he hired women mostly to lead inconsequential agencies, was less than supportive of these women, and left office with the percentage of top women at 27%...below his election.

So Romney lied outright last night to millions and millions of people on the facts of his hiring of women while governor. I'd be surprised, to this day, if Romney has ever sought a woman for a high level position. I suspect there were never any female partners at Bain during his tenure, certainly never any proportion close to reflecting equal opportunity. But I bet there were way over 50% of women as secretaries there, secretaries paying a higher tax rate than Romney or the partners.

Romney is just a compulsive liar...last night just another chapter in this fantasy "Mitt Saves The Little People", pockets minimum 100 million tax free, and gets his best trophy job ever...

Here's the article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/romney-binder-full-of-women.

Another version by Boston Phoenix reporter David Bernstein,http://blog/talking politics/archive/2012/10/16/mind-the-binder

There's a point at which serial lying becomes an insult to the intelligence of the public. Last night Romney passed that tipping point on
so many issues, but to women his lies are so clueless in their conception that he simply does not seem to be living in a shared reality.

"If you have no record to run on, you paint your opponent as someone to run from." -- Barack Hussein Obama, 2008

It is dispicable that an incumbent president running for re-election bases his campaign not on his record as president but, rather, by attacking his opponent.
There's a point at which running as fast and as far and as often as you can from your record becomes insulting to the intelligence of the public. Last night Obama passed that tipping point on so many issues, but to intelligent people his obfuscations are so contemptuous in nature that he simply does not seem to have any respect for them.




alwayssummer -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 2:31:21 PM)

I've been a very proud liberal, women's right activist my entire adult life. Facts on Romney's non existent personal, religious and professional history of recognizing women as worthy of equality are so non existent that he has to make them up.

Your insult is ignorant re: Obama's reliance upon women in his administration and personally offensive to me.

Romney might just as well have been articulating his attitude towards women in his 47% speech as his attitude towards those on soc sec, the military, vets, working poor, and minimum wage workers at Staples, Domino's etc. who fall into that demographic for which he has so much contempt.

I'm not interested in getting in a pissing contest with a fool like you. I suspect it would feed some deep psychological need in you and am unwilling to participate.




DomKen -> RE: Grade the Second Debate (10/17/2012 2:34:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: alwayssummer

It's incomprehensible that any person running for President cannot automatically answer yes when asked if he supports equal pay for women. Mitt refused to answer the question. So his answer is no. Who thinks like that? I cannot even imagine his mind set or that of his "base" that control/ agree with him. I mean if there were ever a place to pander and lie about his (demented) paternalism, in order to join the rest of us in the 21st century, it would be in response to this question. But noooo...fair pay for women, that's I guess just a bridge too far.

For Romney it's still an open question if women should work outside the home at all.
quote:

because I recognized that if you’re going to have women in the workforce, that sometimes they need to be more flexible.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/16/us/politics/transcript-of-the-second-presidential-debate-in-hempstead-ny.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&




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