Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare?

Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (Full Version)

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MissAsylum -> Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/17/2012 9:08:01 PM)
I have been playing with somebody with a good month, and we enjoy OTK. I've tried to give her as much attention after it to make sure she able to calm down and center herself. Lately, she isn't into the idea. After i'm done spanking, she will get up (as well as she can) and go about her business. She has broken down quite a few times during, and few times after- which leaves me very worried. I've discussed how important its for me to know she is alright. However she can't seem to give me a reason why holding her, or even giving her a few words of encouragement while she is laying across my lap bothers her. Her feelings, I won't argue with- but it feels terrible to see her shaking like a lone leaf attached to a tree branch in the wind...and i can't do anything. i'm not her dominant, so i can't necessarily put my foot down (other than stop seeing her)- but what can I do to help drive the point home that for somebody like her, its needed? Regardless if we continue to play or not?

DarkSteven -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/17/2012 9:24:51 PM)
Different people need different kinds of aftercare. Evidently, she needs time to herself. If she's breaking down and shaking, she's going through some stuff. Give her space if she wants it.

littlewonder -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/17/2012 10:03:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissAsylum I have been playing with somebody with a good month, and we enjoy OTK. I've tried to give her as much attention after it to make sure she able to calm down and center herself. Lately, she isn't into the idea. After i'm done spanking, she will get up (as well as she can) and go about her business. She has broken down quite a few times during, and few times after- which leaves me very worried. I've discussed how important its for me to know she is alright. However she can't seem to give me a reason why holding her, or even giving her a few words of encouragement while she is laying across my lap bothers her. Her feelings, I won't argue with- but it feels terrible to see her shaking like a lone leaf attached to a tree branch in the wind...and i can't do anything. i'm not her dominant, so i can't necessarily put my foot down (other than stop seeing her)- but what can I do to help drive the point home that for somebody like her, its needed? Regardless if we continue to play or not? She's just not into you. She sees you as just a casual play partner. Nothing serious, while you want to treat her as if she is something more than casual. Or it could be that she just doesn't like aftercare. Not everyone does. There are some times, depending on many different factors, when I have a little too much energy and so I'm up and doing stuff.

crazyml -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 12:46:27 AM)
You know, I think that the fact that your worrying, and you're considerate about aftercare reflects really well on you (and I'm not surprised at all by your approach). But I think that both DS and littlewonder make really useful points. For many people the "Aftercare" they want is to be left alone to process the experience their way. I've had a couple of instances where, like you, that processing left me a little disturbed and anxious, but the very best you can do is make it clear that you're there, and willing to provide support if it's required. It could also be, as littlewonder pointed out, that your sub doesn't feel the necessary level of intimacy with you (at this time) for aftercare?

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 12:58:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissAsylum ...but what can I do to help drive the point home that for somebody like her, its needed? You can't. Instead you could stop patronising her and assuming that you know what she does or doesn't 'need' better than she does. ('Somebody like her'? Really? Way to put a human being in a box.) An article that might interest you: https://fetlife.com/users/16981/posts/132423

MissAsylum -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 3:57:50 AM)
I'm not into her like that either lol. Its just play for me as well. quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder quote: ORIGINAL: MissAsylum I have been playing with somebody with a good month, and we enjoy OTK. I've tried to give her as much attention after it to make sure she able to calm down and center herself. Lately, she isn't into the idea. After i'm done spanking, she will get up (as well as she can) and go about her business. She has broken down quite a few times during, and few times after- which leaves me very worried. I've discussed how important its for me to know she is alright. However she can't seem to give me a reason why holding her, or even giving her a few words of encouragement while she is laying across my lap bothers her. Her feelings, I won't argue with- but it feels terrible to see her shaking like a lone leaf attached to a tree branch in the wind...and i can't do anything. i'm not her dominant, so i can't necessarily put my foot down (other than stop seeing her)- but what can I do to help drive the point home that for somebody like her, its needed? Regardless if we continue to play or not? She's just not into you. She sees you as just a casual play partner. Nothing serious, while you want to treat her as if she is something more than casual. Or it could be that she just doesn't like aftercare. Not everyone does. There are some times, depending on many different factors, when I have a little too much energy and so I'm up and doing stuff. quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious You can't. Instead you could stop patronising her and assuming that you know what she does or doesn't 'need' better than she does. ('Somebody like her'? Really? Way to put a human being in a box.) An article that might interest you: https://fetlife.com/users/16981/posts/132423 Thank you for the article. I am one of those taught by the book people, so this was particularly eye-opening in that regard. However, just putting it out there, I'm not being patronising. Its just one of those things where its out of general concern for another human. She shakes violently, so i'm always trying to see out of the corner of my eye if I need to take her to a hospital. I'd rather not have a girl with bruised thighs and behind pass out from being over exerted on my floor. Just not a good look if I don't know what is going on. Somebody had commented on the article that they liked being left alone in pain- I've toyed with the idea of her liking that, but I've been left in the dark about it, so I can't assume anything. I've asked what the issue is (even though we are playing casually, i'd like to be on the same page) and am just met with an "i dunno". Just seeing that all is rather....unsettling.... when I haven't been told, "leave me alone- i like to cry myself into a nap in the corner after we are done." I leave her alone when she does it, though. I won't assume she likes it, but I will ask if that is what she likes to do.

LadyPact -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 4:16:12 AM)
I have to agree with the others. It sounds like she wants to process in her own way. The 'after' may be exactly what she wants out of the deal. She wouldn't be the first person I ever heard of who wanted to play so she could get in touch with the way she feels after the endorphins stop pumping. I used to know a gal who only played a few times a year, but it was for the specific purpose of having a good cry all on her own. What you have to ask yourself as a top is, can you handle the fact that she doesn't want aftercare and are you ok without it? If I remember right, you have somebody at home who may be willing to cuddle with you after sessions are over if you feel that you need it, but I'm asking more about the feeling that inspired this thread. It seems to Me that the situation bothers you somewhat, which is perfectly understandable just because you're a compassionate human being. So, what you have to ask yourself is if you can be cool with the arrangement as it stands? To be honest, some tops can't handle play without aftercare, either because they need it for themselves or they might run across a situation that causes them distress like what you are explaining here. You wouldn't be the first person who felt a tad of guilt because the person you are playing with processes differently than you do. I do hope that it is a workable situation for the two of you and that you are able to both get what you need from the experience.

MissAsylum -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 4:16:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml You know, I think that the fact that your worrying, and you're considerate about aftercare reflects really well on you (and I'm not surprised at all by your approach). But I think that both DS and littlewonder make really useful points. For many people the "Aftercare" they want is to be left alone to process the experience their way. I've had a couple of instances where, like you, that processing left me a little disturbed and anxious, but the very best you can do is make it clear that you're there, and willing to provide support if it's required. It could also be, as littlewonder pointed out, that your sub doesn't feel the necessary level of intimacy with you (at this time) for aftercare? I agree as well on the intimacy- we just aren't at that level, and that's more than fine with me. I'm just not into being rendered helpless if something is going on. I've dealt with others where the aftercare is different (none are the same if I think about it). First time this is happened, so i'm just thrown for a loop. I approach it in the same manner as my boyfriend does, sometimes, I just need a good cry, and he leaves me alone, but he won't be far away if I need him. However, just throwing in the details that i've done a rather strenuous activity with her, and then the reaction that follows just gives me cause for concern.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 4:19:46 AM)
That she can't verbalize the issue I see as a big red flag. I would not continue to play with her unless and until she is willing to be more communicative. This is my take on it, but then I've learned to be very cautious about casual play partners in my old age. As in, I don't have them. ETA: I reread and realized my post might be misconstrued. If she could say, "I'm fine, I just want to be left alone," then I wouldn't necessarily see it as a red flag. But she's not saying anything, she's leaving you to guess. This is never good, but that's JMO.

MissAsylum -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 4:23:18 AM)
I'm oddly excited because I was waiting for your input. But to answer your question, yes- I can very well handle her not wanting it. Different strokes for different folks and whatnot. Its just treading that line of not knowing what to do, while being conflicted with leaving her be - which has become a feeling that I feel I should do, or making the suggestion (i don't feel i'm in the position to push) of some type of bonded aftercare- which is what I've been taught to do. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I have to agree with the others. It sounds like she wants to process in her own way. The 'after' may be exactly what she wants out of the deal. She wouldn't be the first person I ever heard of who wanted to play so she could get in touch with the way she feels after the endorphins stop pumping. I used to know a gal who only played a few times a year, but it was for the specific purpose of having a good cry all on her own. What you have to ask yourself as a top is, can you handle the fact that she doesn't want aftercare and are you ok without it? If I remember right, you have somebody at home who may be willing to cuddle with you after sessions are over if you feel that you need it, but I'm asking more about the feeling that inspired this thread. It seems to Me that the situation bothers you somewhat, which is perfectly understandable just because you're a compassionate human being. So, what you have to ask yourself is if you can be cool with the arrangement as it stands? To be honest, some tops can't handle play without aftercare, either because they need it for themselves or they might run across a situation that causes them distress like what you are explaining here. You wouldn't be the first person who felt a tad of guilt because the person you are playing with processes differently than you do. I do hope that it is a workable situation for the two of you and that you are able to both get what you need from the experience.

MissAsylum -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 4:27:24 AM)
I understood what you meant before your edit. I'm not asking her to bare her soul to its depths for me lol, I just need to be aware of how things work for her. I won't cry if I need to walk away from the situation- but if it could be remedied, it would be great. quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt That she can't verbalize the issue I see as a big red flag. I would not continue to play with her unless and until she is willing to be more communicative. This is my take on it, but then I've learned to be very cautious about casual play partners in my old age. As in, I don't have them. ETA: I reread and realized my post might be misconstrued. If she could say, "I'm fine, I just want to be left alone," then I wouldn't necessarily see it as a red flag. But she's not saying anything, she's leaving you to guess. This is never good, but that's JMO.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 4:53:21 AM)
And that's what worries me, she's giving you nothing. Even, "I'm not sure what is going on, but I'd like to handle it on my own," is SOMETHING. Not sure how to remedy this if she won't talk, but sometimes people won't talk unless they have to. Many tell her you won't continue to play unless she can be a bit more vocal, b/c you're not comfortable as things are. I doubt this will work, but it's better than having this person come back at some point and bite you in the butt. I'm not trying to make you paranoid, but she's not letting you know what you're dealing with, so some part of your mind has to go there.

LadyPact -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 4:58:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissAsylum I'm oddly excited because I was waiting for your input. But to answer your question, yes- I can very well handle her not wanting it. Different strokes for different folks and whatnot. Its just treading that line of not knowing what to do, while being conflicted with leaving her be - which has become a feeling that I feel I should do, or making the suggestion (i don't feel i'm in the position to push) of some type of bonded aftercare- which is what I've been taught to do. That was so very sweet of you to say. Thank you. If it were Me, I'd just let her know that the option is available if she would decide that she wants it. (You'd be willing to do that if she changed her mind on the subject, yes?) Other than that, just accept the idea that you are both getting what you want, even if it's a little different than what you were taught. I mean no offense in that. It's just that there are some out there who don't fit into that majority (or so it seems) on the aftercare issue. I know it can seem a little weird when we run into that first person who goes against the tide on the aftercare issue. As tops, we almost feel like we're doing something wrong. It's very similar to having that first person who doesn't really like what we are doing as a sadist, but deep down, that's what they really want. It's a part of how we grow. Of course, there are still the regular things. You know, still have things on hand if she decides she wants them. Allot time should she choose to want it. If she doesn't, you can always read, talk, laugh, whatever it is that you might like to do. Hell, I baked cookies one time because I was giving somebody space, but I thought it was a good idea to be nearby. It sounds funny now, but at the time, it was the perfect solution to making sure she was ok and not crowding her at the same time.

MissAsylum -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 4:59:23 AM)
I'm not into "threats" so to speak, but I've considered doing so. I'm just frustrated, because as you said earlier, i'm left to guess, and I don't feel this is a situation for me to just go with my instincts. quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt And that's what worries me, she's giving you nothing. Even, "I'm not sure what is going on, but I'd like to handle it on my own," is SOMETHING. Not sure how to remedy this if she won't talk, but sometimes people won't talk unless they have to. Many tell her you won't continue to play unless she can be a bit more vocal, b/c you're not comfortable as things are. I doubt this will work, but it's better than having this person come back at some point and bite you in the butt. I'm not trying to make you paranoid, but she's not letting you know what you're dealing with, so some part of your mind has to go there.

dancingshadow -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 5:17:26 AM)
Maybe I'm swimming against the tide here, but I think being a little more insistent might be a good way to get some answers. Just after she's stopped shaking ask how she feels. Does a hug make her feel better or worse at that point? Would she like a hug while she shakes? Does being on her own make her feel better or worse? If she's answering these with don't know then is she open to trying it and finding out?

MissAsylum -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 5:17:46 AM)
Bold #1: Yes, I'd be more than willing to give it to her, should she decide later that she would want it. Bold #2: That is exactly how it felt the first time. I know I had a blank look on my face, but I was having a panic attack of epic proportions on the inside because I felt like I hurt her in a bad way. Bold #3: Did that yesterday when she was breaking down. I just needed to keep my hands busy during it. She likes to eat afterwards, anyway. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: MissAsylum I'm oddly excited because I was waiting for your input. But to answer your question, yes- I can very well handle her not wanting it. Different strokes for different folks and whatnot. Its just treading that line of not knowing what to do, while being conflicted with leaving her be - which has become a feeling that I feel I should do, or making the suggestion (i don't feel i'm in the position to push) of some type of bonded aftercare- which is what I've been taught to do. That was so very sweet of you to say. Thank you. If it were Me, I'd just let her know that the option is available if she would decide that she wants it. (You'd be willing to do that if she changed her mind on the subject, yes?) Other than that, just accept the idea that you are both getting what you want, even if it's a little different than what you were taught. I mean no offense in that. It's just that there are some out there who don't fit into that majority (or so it seems) on the aftercare issue. I know it can seem a little weird when we run into that first person who goes against the tide on the aftercare issue. As tops, we almost feel like we're doing something wrong. It's very similar to having that first person who doesn't really like what we are doing as a sadist, but deep down, that's what they really want. It's a part of how we grow. Of course, there are still the regular things. You know, still have things on hand if she decides she wants them. Allot time should she choose to want it. If she doesn't, you can always read, talk, laugh, whatever it is that you might like to do. Hell, I baked cookies one time because I was giving somebody space, but I thought it was a good idea to be nearby. It sounds funny now, but at the time, it was the perfect solution to making sure she was ok and not crowding her at the same time.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 6:06:40 AM)
I didn't mean it as a threat, merely a consequence.

CuriousFerret -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 7:39:18 AM)
That reminds me of an abuse victim I RPed with once. She (MtF tran) was cool but civilized with me as long as I roleplayed the impersonal abuse and domination she wanted. However, when I tried to develop a closer friendship with her, she started getting increasingly demented and abusive, and she was inflicting a lot of self-harm. It finally came to light that she had been put through some fairly blood-curdling abuse as a child, including episodes of sexual abuse where she had been drugged-up on marijuana to make her passive. This had left her so deeply scarred, she was pretty much a mental cripple. If this is what you're dealing with, let me warn you: you can't fix things for her. Only she can, when she chooses. Accept this, and try to be patient.

angelikaJ -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 7:50:52 AM)
My suggestion would be to try and discuss it in a neutral setting away from play. Perhaps she can give you answers then about what she needs and/or what she is going through. Maybe then you can negotiate something else: you bringing her a blanket and some water and then just being in the room with her quietly while she processes. Sometimes just being present and a witness is a powerful thing and a wonderful gift.

littlewonder -> RE: Should I Be More Insistent with Aftercare? (10/18/2012 9:10:21 AM)
Her non-aftercare is similar to mine when I was still single and played casually for awhile. I would play with someone and then go home to deal with the drop. I just didn't feel intimate with those men so I had no desire for them to help with aftercare. I would just get dressed and leave or tell them goodnight as they walked out the door. It just wasn't important to me with them. I had no feelings for any of them. It was just like casual sex for me...wham, bam, thank you Ma'am. Don't forget to shut the door behind you.

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