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Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 1:11:23 AM

LillyBoPeep

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Alrighty, so I'm having some thoughts, and figured I would share with them the denizens of CM.

On "the site which shall not be named" a girl posted there asking for suggestions on how to hurt yourself. =p For those without play partners, and/or those who genuinely CRAVE pain, that is something they think about.
I posted one suggestion that I used to do before I found the community; I used to turn on my curling iron (in the pre-natural hair days; i don't have any curling irons anymore), and use it as an insertable toy. It really didn't take a lot of heat to become uncomfortable-yet-somehow-stimulating.

Another person replies "OMFG that's horrible!" and mentions something about self-harm not being okay, and recommends that I find someone safe to play with. =p

Mmkay.

So in a group about Sadism and Masochism, doing something slightly masochistic becomes self-harm? Where's the line between Masochism and self-harm?
I know we've had topics about self-harm before, and for me, if I'm doing it to be destructive, then I consider it a bad thing. I used to be best friends with a knife, until I realized that it was only making me dislike myself even more, so we broke up. =p

But if you ever engaged in any masochistic self-fiddling, or if you know people who do, when is it self-harm or just playing around? =p

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 1:22:48 AM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
...when is it self-harm or just playing around? =p

Not a masochist, but I imagine the difference lies in the emotional health (or lack thereof) of the person doing it.

Pam

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 1:43:58 AM

LillyBoPeep

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But whose the judge of that? Because there are lots of people who would say we're all completely unhealthy in every possible way just for being kinky. =p

It's pretty minor compared to some things I've seen posted by some really serious hardcore masochists. I'm really quite a small sorta-masochist. =p If you're caned until your skin is hanging from your body, that's cool - but if you do it yourself, it's "omfg self harm!" =p

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 1:50:29 AM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
But whose the judge of that? Because there are lots of people who would say we're all completely unhealthy in every possible way just for being kinky. =p

Well, if you're looking for some kind of absolute distinction of self harm versus masochism, there is none. Other than that, each individual will draw their own distinctions, and I would imagine that they draw it at the line of "emotional health", whatever that means to them.

Pam

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 1:54:00 AM

LillyBoPeep

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Oh for sure - I agree with that. There is no clear distinction, and basically I guess that's my point. =p I don't know if I feel like I know someone well enough from one post to scream "OMFG self harm!" at them, especially in a group that's flooded with "what's the most horrible thing you can think of" posts. =p

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 1:59:46 AM

metamorfosis

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Not to sound smug, but can't you just dismiss them? After all, you don't know them, either. Why does it matter what they think? Whoever they are, they are as entitled to define the terms "self harm" and "masochism" as you are.

ETA: Wow, am I now espousing the "it's just the internet" mantra?

Pam

< Message edited by metamorfosis -- 10/19/2012 2:03:39 AM >

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 2:13:49 AM

LillyBoPeep

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You're probably right. =p I just thought it was silly.

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 2:23:51 AM

metamorfosis

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Stupid people are stupid. What can you do?

Pam

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 3:03:23 AM

LillyBoPeep

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Well not necessarily stupid, just really quick to screech at you.
Though admittedly I should've explained up front that my curling iron was awesome and had a low setting that never burned anything, I could hold it in my fist and not burn my hand, fully powered up on low. But it was still warm enough to be an uncomfortable, scary insertable, without causing any damage.

But I have a feeling that no explanation would've helped anyway. =p

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 5:42:40 AM

PurrPett

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I like a little pain (cheesy grin) .. To me self harm is inflicted on yourself as a way of covering up more emotional issues.. Masochism is an enjoyable thing.. It is not inflicted (contrary to some beliefs) I don't think... It is simply done.

I, as strange as I seem to the vanilla world, cannot harm myself... I have tried lol.. Teenage "wah! Look at me" moment (cringes) but there was no.. Satisfaction or pleasure whatsoever. It had a point, a purpose but nothing to do with pleasure.
People judge, name, put you in a satisfactory box that makes their world safe - screw em I say. Lol. Say what you say.

You are far too beautiful to be friends with a knife... I'm pleased for you that you know that!! x

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 6:13:50 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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Yeah I have some trouble with the concept that it's perfectly fine if I beat you and leave some marks, but if you beat yourself and leave some marks, it's "self-harm" and you should rush yourself to the nuttery.

The way you did it, in a sexual context, I see as entirely normal in someone with a maso bent. I'm sure there are many, many, masos who use clamps or clips or a variety of other self torture devices to help get them off when they masturbate. It's okay to use a dildo, right? So why not a heated one?

Shesh, who are these people?

You know, I don't travel to that site much except to check meetings dates b/c it's become to IRCish for me. And by that I mean filled with online busy bodies who screech at this and that and love to interfere in other's lives, I assume b/c they do not have one of their own.

Please learn to ignore those people.

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 9:06:26 AM

CuriousFerret

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There are some people who are hijacking an endorphin response to pain, which makes the administration of stimuli that would normally cause pain feel paradoxically pleasurable when that person is in a certain state of mind. This is actually similar to what motivates cutting. The endorphin released by it is actually very soothing, and this is actually why it's kind of silly to assume that cutters hate themselves or something like that. If they are cutting themselves, it's just a sign they are desperate for something to soothe their nerves, but they might also do it just because they like it. Whatever gets your jolly. Pleasure induced by spanking works similarly.

To tell you the truth, I only see that as a different kind of lover's caress. It's just a special kind that you can usually only get with someone you trust more than you do most people. It's kind of like how, if you're ticklish, you don't react with a tickle reflex as much when a friend touches you. Isn't it nice that you can sit close to your friends and rub against them, when someone you felt more cool toward would have you whirling around and laying a cussing on him or her? That's why bottoms like the fact that their masters or mistresses make them feel good when administering a beating.

On the other hand, some people find that punishment builds intimacy between themselves and their partners, even when it doesn't make them feel pleasure directly. Masters like to see their subs looking vulnerable, and maybe they think it's cute and funny to see their toy whimpering helplessly. Subs feel more under their master's power, which is really a warm and snuggly feeling if you're a sub, and I like that my husband finds me adorable when I'm, uh, less dignified than usual. That, to me, is the more romantic form of masochism.

I don't think there is a strict definition of what constitutes masochism, though.

< Message edited by CuriousFerret -- 10/19/2012 9:24:15 AM >

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 10:31:14 AM

ivone1

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i dont get the pleasure out of self-harm.... self-harm is just another way to call out for attention and needing something .... why not find a local Dom and have him do it... i mean there are munches all around that people can meet like minded people ... there are people from all over that are willing to just give someone what they crave, ie pain..... why do it to yourself when there are people around that will willingly do it for you... just saying

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 1:09:40 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

So in a group about Sadism and Masochism, doing something slightly masochistic becomes self-harm? Where's the line between Masochism and self-harm?

Greetings Lilly,

No amount of mental foddery will change that fact that it's you and the object that's engaging and you're the instrument for its infliction. Tip toeing aside, let's be honest. Would you be the ideal party in this scenario or would the sensation be delivered at the hands of another? Is that always the case? Can you fathom a moment when you'd prefer to be in the driver's seat or is your pleasure derived on the receiving end? I think the answers to these questions reveal a lot.

quote:

But if you ever engaged in any masochistic self-fiddling, or if you know people who do, when is it self-harm or just playing around? =p

Dear lady the fiddle never satisfied. It was always a means to an end. When you're able to see and acknowledge this you view the whole debacle through different lenses.

It's good to read you.

~porcelaine

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 1:12:09 PM

ChatteParfaitt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ivone1

i dont get the pleasure out of self-harm.... self-harm is just another way to call out for attention and needing something .... why not find a local Dom and have him do it... i mean there are munches all around that people can meet like minded people ... there are people from all over that are willing to just give someone what they crave, ie pain..... why do it to yourself when there are people around that will willingly do it for you... just saying

This is, in my never humble opinion, one of the more lame-assed statements you've made. You don't have to get "self-harm," that you don't get it doesn't make it self abuse. But it doesn't surprise me you don't get this thread, b/c from the tenor of previous posts, you don't get much.

Here's a clue: There are females who like to take a break between relationships, and sometimes a person just wants to be alone for awhile. Frankly I don't know why lily doesn't have a partner right now, b/c that's not my business.

You are clearly the type of female who can't live without a male. Good on you. Please hurry back to your uber alpha super dom, who if he were such, would at least attempt to control what you write on the internet.

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 1:19:50 PM

AthenaSurrenders

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ivone1

i dont get the pleasure out of self-harm.... self-harm is just another way to call out for attention and needing something .... why not find a local Dom and have him do it... i mean there are munches all around that people can meet like minded people ... there are people from all over that are willing to just give someone what they crave, ie pain..... why do it to yourself when there are people around that will willingly do it for you... just saying

This is kind of like saying 'why masturbate when it's easy to find someone to fuck?'

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 1:22:39 PM

ChatteParfaitt

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I love you !!

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 1:55:12 PM

NuevaVida

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I think with all the attention/awareness "self harm" has received, people are probably extremely sensitive to the idea. So it's probably natural and normal for a first reaction to self-masochsim to be one of concern, even alarm. Self-delivered masochism is not a topic often talked about, so the first place people will go is "self harm."

As for where that line is, if/when it should evolve to self harm...I can only say a self awareness of what one's motivation is is crucial here. Being honest with yourself and understand what the intention is behind creating this pain for yourself will hopefully bring about the answers needed.

For an example, yet not quite the same. I struggled with an eating disorder for years, until I was able to learn the self awareness, tools, and strength to manage it. While I may still crave binging from time to time, I can made the decision to NOT go there so instantly it all happens in a flash. Yet after a very rough week in which I had to sit face to face across a table in a courtroom with my ex husband, I found myself, almost on auto-pilot, eating an entire pizza (it was a Small, but still way too far beyond the 1-2 pieces I automatically limit myself to now).

My next thought was, "I'm stuffing" meaning I am stuffing emotions. I did that with food for about 25 years, and haven't done that in about 4 years. This wasn't just an enjoyment of a splurge of pizza. That's allowed. That's OK. That's healthy. Stuffing is not. The ACT is the same - hand to mouth with pizza - but the motivation behind it was very much NOT OK. And being honest with myself about it allowed me to acknowledge some emotions I needed to deal with, so I could move forward as a healthy person.

Not sure if that helps or not, but we all have our own grey areas and lines which we can cross over. It's up to us, individually, to know and understand what those are.

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 5:04:43 PM

mousekid

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This is a very interesting question you've raised. I've thought about it myself, and I don't have an answer. I do know that an urge to self-harm for me caused guilt. Masochistic play with a partner feels less lonely, more positive, and guilt-free. It could be that BDSM is slightly less taboo than self-harm, or it could be my soul knows something I don't know. But I do also think that it is a gray area as well. I hope someone else can add more insight on this topic as I have the same question.

This was a response to Lilly. Sorry, I am new to posting in forums.

< Message edited by mousekid -- 10/19/2012 5:06:45 PM >

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RE: Masochism. Or whatever. - 10/19/2012 5:32:03 PM

AVegasMaster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ivone1

i dont get the pleasure out of self-harm.... self-harm is just another way to call out for attention and needing something .... why not find a local Dom and have him do it... i mean there are munches all around that people can meet like minded people ... there are people from all over that are willing to just give someone what they crave, ie pain..... why do it to yourself when there are people around that will willingly do it for you... just saying

As a Master, I agree with you. As a matter of principal, I also have to agree with ChatteParfaitt.

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