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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/21/2012 4:17:19 PM

Baroana

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I won't tolerate being disrespected or disobeyed, and either of those things will garner a punishment. I can tell the difference between playing and the real thing.

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/21/2012 4:42:52 PM

OpenMindOpenHand

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Under the circumstances as you have described them, when I was a slave, I would never have accepted it. I would have submitted to it, and gone through the motions ever after as you had been doing. IF I had not been a slave, though, I would have told him to stuff it and left. End of story.

45 minutes is a horribly long time for physical punishment. The punishment should fit the crime and if the crime is something as simple as saying the wrong thing, the punishment should be toward teaching not to say it, anymore, and, perhaps, to teach you to say the right thing,instead.

The fact that you had no prior warning that it was the wrong thing just makes things worse. It means either he was very ineffectual at telling you before or, he did a typical man thing and didn't bother telling you until it built up his level of frustration to a point where he lost it. Either way, that is not very masterful of him.

The BDSM equivalent of marriage counseling, in most cases, is to find a mentor/friend or find a pro-dom who is willing to act as a mentor, to help the dominant see where things are getting skewed and help them to gain experience. I would suggest your owner do this, as the fault sounds as if it is entirely due to his lack of experience with being an owner, possibly coupled with a lac of understanding of women, altogether.

What you have said about not knowing.. that's the worst of it. Even if it were an out of the blue dislike for a certain word or phrase, the proper response to you using it would have been something more like a warning not to, followed by a swat to the mouth or the application of hot sauce or a gag whenever you used it thereafter. Something small, like the infraction, and pointed toward fixing it. That wouldn't have traumatized you, even if you hadn't seen it coming; but 45 minutes of any sort of punishment would likely traumatize anyone, as it doesn't say "loving correction" it says "hate-filled anger".

I hope you can work through this, with or without him.

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/21/2012 4:51:15 PM

kiwisub12

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If this is something you don't think you can talk to him about calmly, and since you don't live with him, perhaps you can write him a letter explaining your feelings about what happened. That way you can communicate without having to actually talk to him.

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/21/2012 5:25:28 PM

ivone1

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not reading all the thread ...how do you learn to accept punishment.... well each couple is in a different dynamic.... there are some that dont have punishments there are some that dont...

like lizi said, if i do something wrong Master will bring it to my attention and vice versa .... we are adults... we will discuss things... i would have to do something really really bad to deserve
a punishment... i mean really bad... but it is his option to punish me or not....

as for learning to accept it ... you just do it .... nothing to learn, no secret formula to it ... you just accept it and move on....

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/21/2012 5:47:45 PM

AnEquinox

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Thanks all.

I spoke with him this morning and he said, he already knew I couldn't handle punishment and wouldn't consider punishing me again. He realizes that I want to be his 'good girl' in my bones and stuff that interferes with that isn't healthy for me.

But he also said, and he's right to some extent, that I think if I'm a good girl, I will be lovable, and he wants me to know how lovable I am, with or without being a good girl.

We have many other issues to work through, and I'm not sure if we'll work them out together, or for how long. But I really appreciate all your feedback. Truth be told, I'm never at more peace, than when I'm kneeling for him and he is pleased with me.

But I never really figured out how to rectify my sense of needing to surrender and please with my abhoration of punishment, and my sense that I will fuck up some times, without meaning to, and be broken by it.

This has been very helpful.

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/21/2012 7:48:56 PM

SimplyMichael

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Dominants are not a higher life form. We screw things up too. I wouldnt be invooved with someone i had to.punish to make obey. Its the weakest method of shaping behavior. It can be hot to.play with it and soketimes beibg forceful demanding can be hot but the real shaping is going on with the positive reinforcement
created by the punishment being hot.

In your case he isnt skilled, tried to force a behavior, screwed up your heqdspace and is too proud to.step back.qnd see or admit his error. Setting that aside, prrtend he was in the right...what he did to you did NOT have the effect he wqnted. If you were mine, the relationship comes first and i would fix my mistake, work with you to repair the damage.

As for the punishment dynamic, i dont bother. i want a behavior that i am failing to get, i.am going to find out why and instead of dealing with the symptom, i am.going to address the cause so my partner can obey. Then i am going to use positive rewards to get her to internalize it.

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/21/2012 8:22:53 PM

JanahX

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Wtf is a "good girl"? I know not what that is.

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/21/2012 9:06:00 PM

littlewonder

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Ok, op after reading some of your responses to your thread, it seems that you still have a lot of unresolved issues, not just with the punishment but even when you said you need lots of kisses from him before you blow him.

If you have a therapist, you may want to talk to him/her about this...not really the punishment but about your ptsd that seems to be holding back your relationship.

Good luck.

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/23/2012 5:06:12 AM

Toysinbabeland

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Punishment should never ever be given in anger...

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/24/2012 10:41:56 AM

DesFIP

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We don't have a punishment dynamic because my reaction to it is like the op's. It is damaging to the relationship, it doesn't improve it.

What we do instead is talk about it. I have to say though that punishment dynamic or not, I would have safeworded at being punished for a rule that didn't exist. That's unacceptable. I don't know about the rest of you but I have no mindreading skills. He wants me not to do something, he has to tell me.

We problem solve instead. I used to get bitchy middle of every afternoon. So he started asking me why I was doing that. Turns out the answer was always hunger. I hadn't eaten all day and my blood sugar would tank. Punishing me for low blood sugar would be ineffective. Stopping for lunch solves the problem.

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/24/2012 12:00:22 PM

CuriousFerret

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Actually, I like to use my parents' pet dog as an example for this concept.

She's a black lab, which doesn't mean what most people think it does. Labs are psychotic, and they never really stop being pups. Most people aren't really ready for one. The only thing you hear about them that is fairly consistent is that they are really good around children, but you have to remember that this could also be true of a dog who tears up and destroys everything in your house. Think Marley and Me.

Fortunately, we had very good luck with this one, and I think it has a lot to do with the method of discipline I used on her. When we would play together, I would get very rough with her. If she got too wild or out-of-control, I would give her a good, hard slap. The thing is, she never took this personally. She would sit right back up with the same goofy-looking dog grin.

The only actual punishment I ever meted out on her, during playtime, was that, when she would step out-of-line, play time was cancelled, no treats, no praise. When suddenly my unconditional affection was yanked away, you'd have thought that I had told her Christmas had been canceled. She would walk around with her head hanging down and her ears drooping pitifully.

But I never would have put her in a position of being helpless and beaten her out of anger. Sure, if she were jumping up on people, she'd get slapped with the bill of a hat or something, but I wouldn't actually beat her out of anger, not even if she tore something to pieces.

And she has been the best dog my parents have ever had. Her manners are immaculate.

The point is, there is a huge difference between beating someone during playtime and beating someone out of anger. They are worlds apart. The only time I would use corporal punishment on a sub would be if the sub had agreed to it as an alternative to me hanging up the leash for a while.

And that's the way that you handle disciplinary problems: the only really effective punishment is to threaten to hang up the leash, based on my experience with animals and based on my experience as a sub.

< Message edited by CuriousFerret -- 10/24/2012 12:05:07 PM >

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/24/2012 12:22:43 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

Labs are psychotic, and they never really stop being pups.

huh....interesting. I guess someone forgot to tell the 4 labs that my sister has owned over the years. They have all been good dogs and once they grew up they were definitely not pups yet. They were lazy and slept most of the day.

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/24/2012 12:34:55 PM

CuriousFerret

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

Labs are psychotic, and they never really stop being pups.

huh....interesting. I guess someone forgot to tell the 4 labs that my sister has owned over the years.

The ones my parents always had were from bird dog stock, accustomed to life off-the-leash in a rural area. We have never had one that would have been happy as a purely indoor animal.

In fact, my parents' little girl is starting to get some age on her, and now they have to be careful to keep playtime short. She never really slowed down. She still tries to keep up with dogs that are half her age, and she wears herself out doing it. She is nevertheless extremely slender and fit, and I think she's about to be 11 years old.

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/24/2012 12:42:58 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousFerret

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

Labs are psychotic, and they never really stop being pups.

huh....interesting. I guess someone forgot to tell the 4 labs that my sister has owned over the years.
The ones my parents always had were from bird dog stock, accustomed to life off-the-leash in a rural area. We have never had one that would have been happy as a purely indoor animal.

In fact, my parents' little girl is starting to get some age on her, and now they have to be careful to keep playtime short. She never really slowed down. She still tries to keep up with dogs that are half her age, and she wears herself out doing it. She is nevertheless extremely slender and fit, and I think she's about to be 11 years old.

My sister has 3 acres of land....all woods in the middle of nowhere. They are outdoor and indoor. They run through the woods once in awhile, then come back and flop down on the deck and sun themselves while they sleep.

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/24/2012 2:34:01 PM

CuriousFerret

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

My sister has 3 acres of land....all woods in the middle of nowhere. They are outdoor and indoor. They run through the woods once in awhile, then come back and flop down on the deck and sun themselves while they sleep.

There is actually a large degree of variance in the breed itself, though. The stock that my parents' lab comes from tends to be much more high-strung. That's one reason that I would warn inexperienced dog owners off of assuming that a Labrador retriever is going to be a docile animal just because they have a reputation for being good household pets. That's not always the case, and there is a strain in the breed that tends to have abnormally high energy levels. The only way you can really know with any certainty what you're getting, though, is to make sure you get to interact with both parents before getting a puppy.

However, she's a very good exhibition of non-physical discipline being effective in dogs. Another example, besides the above, is that she used to get into the trash occasionally, and she used to rip things up sometimes. I managed to alter the behavior simply by making her sit quietly while the mess was cleaned up, treating it as a vicarious form of participation. Very little yelling or posturing was really necessary.

So I'm really a strong believer in non-physical punishment. I think it's the sentiment that you communicate to a sub that is most important. All that violent physical punishment communicates, if there is no play element, is hurt.

< Message edited by CuriousFerret -- 10/24/2012 2:38:49 PM >

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/25/2012 2:21:08 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
Not really. My point is that I don't end the relationship as a deliberate act to teach them a lesson. Punishment is a deliberate act designed to teach a lesson.

I totally agree. People have tried to convince me that my stance with Carol regarding disobedience is implied punishment. I don't see it that way. I see it as an inevitable progression of the dynamic we've set up. If she disobeys then she has already chosen not to be my slave by the definitions I have put in place. By releasing her I'm simply acknowledging the actual facts on the ground. To call it "punishment" would be grossly inaccurate despite it having strongly negative associations with Carol.

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/25/2012 5:04:56 PM

DesFIP

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Ferret, labs aren't psychotic. They just stay in puppy headspace till age 4 minimum. So do most of the retrievers. It's one reason I've always adopted an older retriever, because I can't take them out for 4 mile runs twice a day which is what the younger ones need.

And I have 35 acres, doesn't matter, they don't run by themselves, they need to be with their pack.

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/25/2012 7:13:00 PM

Kana

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quote:

They just stay in puppy headspace till age 4 minimum.

Absolutely.
Labs (And Retrievers) ain't psychotic. They just be spastic (As all get out...and then some)
Love me some labs, but maaaaaaaaaaaaan, I have no desire to have a Lab puppy again

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/26/2012 7:24:22 AM

PrincessDonna11

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AAhhhh.....

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RE: How do you learn to accept punishment? - 10/26/2012 1:06:44 PM

CuriousFerret

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

They just stay in puppy headspace till age 4 minimum.

Absolutely.
Labs (And Retrievers) ain't psychotic. They just be spastic (As all get out...and then some)

Well, that's what I meant by "psychotic," and that's what I should have said.

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