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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 3:54:23 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Hmmm. Well, it seems my apologies are in order: serves me right for going on second hand information. You are right that Mourdock has expressed his regret (though, from your citation, for *the impression* others have received from what he said rather than for what he actually said).


Well he can't actually apologise for something he didn't say, can he now?

Unless you also think that this sentence -
"And I came to realise life is a gift from god, and I think, even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, it is something God intended to happen."

contains a logical implication that both the life and the rape are "Something that God intended to happen" - And TBH, I know you're literate, so I cannot believe you would.

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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 4:04:54 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
You may regard basic English comprehension as absurdly pernickity, but the claim is that this man said that "God intended Rape to happen", that claim is based on these words...

"And I came to realise life is a gift from god, and I think, even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, it is something God intended to happen."

Logically, there is no implication in this sentence that god intended rape to happen. Any claim that it does is either a willful twisting of the meaning, or an ignorance of the English language.


I'm having a hard time buying that, certainly God knows where rape babies come from.

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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 4:21:06 PM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

So you are saying that Hitler having killed millions was just acting on what he believed. Consequently, though you might disagree with his views you'd not have raised a hand to stop him?

Another proof of Godwin's Law.

K.


Try reading for comprehension. It will help you stop making a fool of yourself.

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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 4:23:39 PM   
crazyml


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Status: offline 		Ok... when a General says "It was a good thing to win the battle, even in that horrible situation when civilians are killed"

Would it be fair to claim that the general thinks it's a good thing that civilians are killed?

As for the "God certainly knows... " bit... as I've said it before on this thread - I'm an atheist, so I don't believe this stuff, but...


The whole "if god is all powerful why does he let bad things happen" debate is thousands of years old, and the mainstream Christian view is that, God gave people free will, to do good or bad.

There are some proper fucked up "Christians" out there - Like the Westboro Baptist Church who take the stance that god is punishing us for not stoning homosexuals, but most Christians don't take that stance.

A devout Christian may believe absolutely that any life is a gift from god. They may believe that absolutely, and deeply. They may also believe that things like rape, murder etc are awful things, that are a result of free will. Now if you believe absolutely and deeply that any life is a gift from god, you can perfectly well take the stance that any life, however it was brought about, is a gift from god.

Personally.... I think the logic is stupid. I think the whole "omnipotent, loving god who lets innocent children die of malaria" thing is a complete con. But I have met clever, good, generally rational people who buy it.


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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:01:40 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The more something is "translated" the more bastardized it becomes.


Agreed, which is why modern translations using the oldest existing documents are more accurate than the KJV which was translated from texts published in the 16th century and adjusted to say what they wanted to here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
No one is ignoring them... I am dismissing them.

Or to phrase it a different way, you're cherry picking the least accurate text available to you.


No, cherry picking is deciding... well in this version, it agrees with me.... but this other doesnt, so let me look for another version that does.

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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:13:59 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Hmmm. Well, it seems my apologies are in order: serves me right for going on second hand information. You are right that Mourdock has expressed his regret (though, from your citation, for *the impression* others have received from what he said rather than for what he actually said).


Well he can't actually apologise for something he didn't say, can he now?

Unless you also think that this sentence -
"And I came to realise life is a gift from god, and I think, even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, it is something God intended to happen."

contains a logical implication that both the life and the rape are "Something that God intended to happen" - And TBH, I know you're literate, so I cannot believe you would.


Crazy, my overall conclusion regarding what Mourdock said is that, at best, he was skating on very thin ice with those words because they smack of a lack of consideration of the 'rape' part of it as against the 'birth' part of it.

What we basically have here is a silly arse who's made the terrible error of hinting at some kind of logic for his prejudice. He should have just talked about God 'speaking to me', or at least said that 'my view is beyond mere reason, it comes from my Heart' - that's the usual sort of bollocks that keeps his revolting supporters happy. But, instead, he put rape and the sanctity of life in the same sentence as God, all with a veneer of reason, and thereby begged the obvious question of 'if God didn't intend the rape to happen, then how and why *did* it happen?'

Was it in fact Satan working through the rapist's actions? But that would never do, would it - because then people might be justified in saying, 'Well, surely God would at least understand, and quite possibly even condone, my desire to prevent Satan's work from coming to fruition in the shape of a child borne of the seed of a man possessed by the devil?' (Or similar. Put all that in oldie worldie English to make it sound more authoritative.)

If Satan wasn't behind the rapist's actions, then God must have behind them. That's true, no? It's always one or the other, for Mourdock's species of cretin-level Christian religionist?








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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:19:57 PM   
Baroana


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Status: offline 		Peon, it's simply a corner one gets backed into when they subscribe to the "every fetus is sacred" school of thought. If that's an innocent human life, then how can society allow it to be aborted, no matter what the mother has been through or what she wants?

For my view on this issue, see http://youtu.be/3Djohakx_FE


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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:24:24 PM   
DaddySatyr


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Status: offline 		'nuff said. It's Liberal Logic 101






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Michael

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 10/28/2012 5:25:12 PM >

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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:24:29 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
The whole "if god is all powerful why does he let bad things happen" debate is thousands of years old, and the mainstream Christian view is that, God gave people free will, to do good or bad.


By definition, a raped woman was lacking in free will at the time of the rape, natch. Just saying. Well, I guess it boils down to the question of which is more important in God's eyes - a conception, any conception - or a human's free will. I await with bated breath Mourdock's answer to that with, of course, his explanation of why he knows God's view better than the rest of us.

Pfft. Why should we care? The man isn't a priest, doesn't wear a dress in public and probably isn't even a paedophile. He lacks the essential qualifications.




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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:28:33 PM   
crazyml


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Status: offline 		Ah well.

I think you can surmise where I stand on "god creates life at conception".

I just think it's crass and silly to accuse someone of saying something that they didn't.

I'll happily join you in criticising his stance on a woman's right to choose, but not in giving a bloke a hard time for saying something that he didn't.

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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:32:41 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

'nuff said. It's Liberal Logic 101


Thank you for your contribution to this discussion, DS.

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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:32:42 PM   
crazyml


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Status: offline 		Brother Satyr,

C'mon man, Very few liberals would argue that a 26 year old dude was a child.

That would be a 301 course at least.



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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:34:00 PM   
Baroana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Ah well.

I think you can surmise where I stand on "god creates life at conception".

I just think it's crass and silly to accuse someone of saying something that they didn't.

I'll happily join you in criticising his stance on a woman's right to choose, but not in giving a bloke a hard time for saying something that he didn't.



Actually, I think he did say it. I think he meant that every child conceived is an intentional act by god.

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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:34:58 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
I'll happily join you in criticising his stance on a woman's right to choose, but not in giving a bloke a hard time for saying something that he didn't.


Why not? He's forever making God have a hard time for saying something that He didn't.

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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:37:01 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

'nuff said. It's Liberal Logic 101






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Michael


Asides from being off topic and probably racist, who is the 26 year old gang member ? What has he to do with this thread ?

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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:37:46 PM   
Baroana


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Status: offline 		Please don't dignify his posts by responding.

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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:39:03 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Ah well.

I think you can surmise where I stand on "god creates life at conception".

I just think it's crass and silly to accuse someone of saying something that they didn't.

I'll happily join you in criticising his stance on a woman's right to choose, but not in giving a bloke a hard time for saying something that he didn't.



Actually, I think he did say it. I think he meant that every child conceived is an intentional act by god.


I'm not sure you've understood the point I'm making. And it's too late (and I am way too bored of this topic) to explain it again.



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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:39:53 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

Crazy:

Logically, there is no implication in this sentence that god intended rape to happen. Any claim that it does is either a willful twisting of the meaning, or an ignorance of the English language.


Logically, thats only your opinion.

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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:41:56 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

Crazy:

Logically, there is no implication in this sentence that god intended rape to happen. Any claim that it does is either a willful twisting of the meaning, or an ignorance of the English language.


Logically, thats only your opinion.


Actually it's basic fucking English grammar.


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RE: Now God intended rape to happen. - 10/28/2012 5:43:44 PM   
Baroana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Ah well.

I think you can surmise where I stand on "god creates life at conception".

I just think it's crass and silly to accuse someone of saying something that they didn't.

I'll happily join you in criticising his stance on a woman's right to choose, but not in giving a bloke a hard time for saying something that he didn't.



Actually, I think he did say it. I think he meant that every child conceived is an intentional act by god.


I'm not sure you've understood the point I'm making. And it's too late (and I am way too bored of this topic) to explain it again.





In reply, I think it is you who didn't understand the original statement. Granted, it's ambiguous, but I call bullshit on a British person telling Americans that he better understands a fellow American's English.

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