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RE: Bottoming, submitting, and other states of mind - 10/29/2012 11:44:30 PM   
graceadieu


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Going back to the OP, I am curious about something. How do you (Michael) see those three types of bottoming tie in with submission? It sounds like you're saying that submission is a different thing from any of these because of the emotions of the people involved, which I definitely agree with. Do you see an exchange of authority as stemming from those emotions, something they inspire?

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Bottoming, submitting, and other states of mind - 10/30/2012 7:41:09 AM   
SimplyMichael


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For me, I see submission as something done outside sex or scenes. So, I might defer to a cop but there is no "submission". I see "submission" as a desire to obey, for some people that desire is quite broad, for some that desire is only inspired by a single person.

Which is why out in the big scary world where the kink scenes are more diverse you run into people who identify as dominant bottoms and submissive tops.

(in reply to graceadieu)
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RE: Bottoming, submitting, and other states of mind - 10/30/2012 7:56:51 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Saying liking anal sex makes a man gay is just plain silly but there are lots of silly stuff out there. Another widely accepted myth is that to be a "good" top, you have to have bottomed. Been plenty of threads here about that topic, its a myth about the "Old Guard" that one often hears.

Whats funny about this thread is I was just having a heart to heart with an old lover about who we are both looking for. She told me her impression was that I only wanted a Domme woman who had never before submitted to a man. Some of my writing does eroticize that concept, but I have dated women who identify as submissive. I will admit though that its a turn off for me if they have spent long time in the scene and played with lots of people. Even there however I can point to a few exceptions like this tall English woman who I hooked up with the night after she had done a scene with over 500 needles. I didnt watch her getting the needles, not sure how I would have reacted.

So, I guess for me the simple explanation is chemistry, if I feel it, the past is meaningless because if the energy is there we will go places she never knew existed or that she could go.

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 10/30/2012 8:00:05 AM >

(in reply to Aynne88)
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RE: Bottoming, submitting, and other states of mind - 10/30/2012 8:01:23 AM   
LadyPact


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Then why didn't you watch the needles?


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(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Bottoming, submitting, and other states of mind - 10/30/2012 9:38:20 AM   
Spiritedsub2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83


quote:


And from a Hetro Dom perspective, you can justify it
however you want, even if there's a whole harrem of
supermodel babes, if they have strap ons and are
fucking you in the ass, that aint hetro.

From the perspective of a newbie with virtually no experience, I thought the "thrust" of D/s is that the submissive submits, not just to the parts they like, and the Dom gets to have things his/her way. The only hitch in the giddyup being whether the dominant is able to inspire that submission, through chemistry and the connection.


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(in reply to ARIES83)
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RE: Bottoming, submitting, and other states of mind - 10/30/2012 10:44:01 AM   
TieMeInKnottss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

For me this would never work. If I saw my dom bottoming to someone I would not be able to handle it. It would just completely turn me off of him. While there may be no power exchange, I would look at him as enjoying receiving pain, being a masochist which for me just really changes things. Even if he was just learning how to wield a tool, I just could not see him as a Dom anymore. If he really needed to do something like that, I'd rather he use me as his guinea pig.

The ex Dom would from time to time, tell me to use toys on him anally. I ended up crying and breaking down each time. I just could not see him the same in my eyes after that.



I am completely with you...it is why switches don't appeal to me. I like Dom men and would find it a turn off to see him or think of him in a sub role...I would end up losing respect & then I try to be in control...

(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: Bottoming, submitting, and other states of mind - 10/30/2012 11:43:07 AM   
chatterbox24


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

For me this would never work. If I saw my dom bottoming to someone I would not be able to handle it. It would just completely turn me off of him. While there may be no power exchange, I would look at him as enjoying receiving pain, being a masochist which for me just really changes things. Even if he was just learning how to wield a tool, I just could not see him as a Dom anymore. If he really needed to do something like that, I'd rather he use me as his guinea pig.

The ex Dom would from time to time, tell me to use toys on him anally. I ended up crying and breaking down each time. I just could not see him the same in my eyes after that.


I feel just like this. Total tranformation of thought. ITs cool for others, but it is one total turn off , the mere thought makes me cringe. Its just so undomly to me. lol.

< Message edited by chatterbox24 -- 10/30/2012 11:44:55 AM >


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RE: Bottoming, submitting, and other states of mind - 10/30/2012 11:52:05 AM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

From the perspective of a newbie with virtually no experience, I thought the "thrust" of D/s is that the submissive submits, not just to the parts they like, and the Dom gets to have things his/her way. The only hitch in the giddyup being whether the dominant is able to inspire that submission, through chemistry and the connection. 


Clearly it is for some and not others. Also remember this thread when you read threads about "no limits" and "edge play". Many people who believe they have "no limits" because they have never been with someone who is capable of pushing them. Big fish in a small pond syndrome.

I wouldnt want someone without limits, both so I have something to push and if a woman,cant say "NO" to me, I certainly cant trust her "yes".

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)
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RE: Bottoming, submitting, and other states of mind - 10/30/2012 12:59:16 PM   
Spiritedsub2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

From the perspective of a newbie with virtually no experience, I thought the "thrust" of D/s is that the submissive submits, not just to the parts they like, and the Dom gets to have things his/her way. The only hitch in the giddyup being whether the dominant is able to inspire that submission, through chemistry and the connection. 


Clearly it is for some and not others. Also remember this thread when you read threads about "no limits" and "edge play". Many people who believe they have "no limits" because they have never been with someone who is capable of pushing them. Big fish in a small pond syndrome.

I wouldnt want someone without limits, both so I have something to push and if a woman,cant say "NO" to me, I certainly cant trust her "yes".

I would think that limits, or maybe proclivities, would be known to each other by the time the D/s relationship engaged to the point of submitting to what is enjoyed and what is not. LONG before the chemistry and connection fully developed. I've read profiles revealing tastes that would keep me away from the person before the beginning. In a way, that is establishing limits from the outset.

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Bottoming, submitting, and other states of mind - 10/30/2012 1:22:18 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

I would think that limits, or maybe proclivities, would be known to each other by the time the D/s relationship engaged to the point of submitting to what is enjoyed and what is not. LONG before the chemistry and connection fully developed. I've read profiles revealing tastes that would keep me away from the person before the beginning. In a way, that is establishing limits from the outset.


Yes, ideally these types of things are best discussed before any relationship commitments are made. However, a long term relationship is rarely stagnant, and people do discover new desires and areas to explore. One *could* say they'd never do such a thing, then years down the road find themselves in a place where such a thing is presented. Then what? I'm your no limits slave and for the last ten years we've had this awesome relationship, but now your limits no longer match my own and I'm not going to give you what you want? I'm going to decide this is a limit of mine and/or end this now? Or am I going to try to work through my struggles for you?

No doubt a tough situation, and we all have to do what's right for us. But things can and often do change along the way, and - for me, anyway - it's an interesting idea to explore.

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(in reply to Spiritedsub2)
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RE: Bottoming, submitting, and other states of mind - 10/30/2012 1:32:42 PM   
SimplyMichael


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And for people who have been around a long time, we have seen peoples hard limits become their hottrst fetish, time and time again. Not every limit falls away but it is a frequent occurance.

So, seeing a newbie with tons of limits, I just smile.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
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RE: Bottoming, submitting, and other states of mind - 10/30/2012 1:55:15 PM   
MariaB


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Joined: 4/3/2007
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Steve and me were all about kinky sex. I will never submit to you I said and I will never submit to you either, he said! Our journey has been a long and fruitful one. We have experimented on every scale. I have never met someone who is so overpoweringly dominant and yet I still don't find myself wanting to submit to him but oh boy do I want him to submit to me! A man so strong, so in control, so clever, confident and all. To have that man under my will, my control would be like all my birthdays coming at once!
He is not my submissive, though sexually we go to places that would horrify many a submissive female!!

I have decided lately that although I am of a dominant personality, when it comes down to it I just want to have fun. Maybe its all just getting a bit old but I seem to be taking this a lot less seriously and funnily enough I'm having a lot more fun.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Bottoming, submitting, and other states of mind - 10/30/2012 3:11:26 PM   
Spiritedsub2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

I would think that limits, or maybe proclivities, would be known to each other by the time the D/s relationship engaged to the point of submitting to what is enjoyed and what is not. LONG before the chemistry and connection fully developed. I've read profiles revealing tastes that would keep me away from the person before the beginning. In a way, that is establishing limits from the outset.


Yes, ideally these types of things are best discussed before any relationship commitments are made. However, a long term relationship is rarely stagnant, and people do discover new desires and areas to explore. One *could* say they'd never do such a thing, then years down the road find themselves in a place where such a thing is presented. Then what? I'm your no limits slave and for the last ten years we've had this awesome relationship, but now your limits no longer match my own and I'm not going to give you what you want? I'm going to decide this is a limit of mine and/or end this now? Or am I going to try to work through my struggles for you?

No doubt a tough situation, and we all have to do what's right for us. But things can and often do change along the way, and - for me, anyway - it's an interesting idea to explore.

It would be terminally boring if things didn't change along the way, including those newbie limits :)


_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 53
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