RE: A Tale of Two Tags

RE: A Tale of Two Tags (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/29/2012 6:34:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Pst... might wanna check out Polite's post. Why? [snip] quote: And, you are right. My math is off... [snip] <<Pastes it onto the calendar>> [:D] quote: making Rob's numbers even more implausible. 18 million.... is less than the 23 he quoted.. and that still doesnt take into consideration those who cant or dont wish to work. I was no posting in support of Rob's 23M number. Feel free to hold him to that claim. [8D] I'm not sure what your last phrase was referring to. Those that are not able, or aren't looking for work, aren't included in Unemployment numbers (except those who gave up because they have become discouraged). They are in Rob's numbers. Remember, there was a conversation going before you slipped into it.

Marini -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/29/2012 7:22:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel Remind me, who cares about American workers? Bingo! I remember as a little girl looking at the tags in my clothes that said "Made in America" and grinning from ear to ear. The American worker has been a second thought for about 30 years, its almost as if the masses have been asleep and are starting to wake up. Carry on.

DesideriScuri -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/29/2012 7:43:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Pst... might wanna check out Polite's post. Why? [snip] quote: And, you are right. My math is off... [snip] <<Pastes it onto the calendar>> [:D] quote: making Rob's numbers even more implausible. 18 million.... is less than the 23 he quoted.. and that still doesnt take into consideration those who cant or dont wish to work. I was no posting in support of Rob's 23M number. Feel free to hold him to that claim. [8D] I'm not sure what your last phrase was referring to. Those that are not able, or aren't looking for work, aren't included in Unemployment numbers (except those who gave up because they have become discouraged). They are in Rob's numbers. Remember, there was a conversation going before you slipped into it. Well, I didn't interpret your meaning correctly. I thought you were saying that you were at 18M and hadn't included those who can't work or who don't wish to work. That would result in a number closer to 23M, so it was a bit confusing to me. Now, I'm going to assume you meant that you were at 18M and hadn't taken those two groups out yet. And, don't forget, I wasn't posting in support of the 23M number.

tazzygirl -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/29/2012 8:11:45 PM)
Exactly, those groups had not been accounted for... removed.. as I previously posted.

mnottertail -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 6:45:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: FMRFGOPGAL What's that they say about a picture being worth a thousand words? Says to me that the Romney camp believes in cost effectiveness. So, I think that is the issue, is it really cost effective for America to ship work overseas. We know what vision Willard and the republicans have, and it seems to be the largest redistribution of wealth in the history of the world.

DesideriScuri -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 7:01:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: FMRFGOPGAL What's that they say about a picture being worth a thousand words? Says to me that the Romney camp believes in cost effectiveness. So, I think that is the issue, is it really cost effective for America to ship work overseas. We know what vision Willard and the republicans have, and it seems to be the largest redistribution of wealth in the history of the world. Why else would a company ship work overseas? I used to be more supportive of import duties and tariffs. As it turns out, a very close friend of mine had a discussion about it. As he's been around the world, literally, for his job, he's seen the results of outsourcing. Initially, we outsource to a country, where we're paying a better rate for them, and a better rate for our bottom line. As their living standards improve, so does the cost of employing them. Then, business finds the next place to outsource. Right now, a huge one is China. India is also gaining jobs. What happens when China's or India's labor pool rises in employment cost, or logistic costs rise, to the point where outsourcing to there isn't worthwhile? Jobs will be shifted to other areas, or back home.

mnottertail -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 7:04:39 AM)
Right, and that is the mettle of it. Willard and the republicans want to ship jobs overseas. Here we are mired in debt, jobless, and more.......how is that cost effective? The rightwing wants to massively redistribute the wealth, overseas and keep a slice for themselves.

Yachtie -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 7:20:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Willard and the republicans want to ship jobs overseas. Here we are mired in debt, jobless, and more.......how is that cost effective? If I owned a business (100 employees) here in NC and found I could produce the same good for less and be more competitive by moving to SC, would I not be hurting employment in NC by moving? Would such a move be cost effective? Of course, because I can produce the same good for less and be more competitive by moving. The question is, WHY are businesses moving overseas? It's not political as to the business, it's economic. But politics has a lot to do with the economic environment to which businesses react. In short, Capital will always go where it can find the best environment. Many may think that wrong, but it's the way it is.

DesideriScuri -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 7:21:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Right, and that is the mettle of it. Willard and the republicans want to ship jobs overseas. Here we are mired in debt, jobless, and more.......how is that cost effective? The rightwing wants to massively redistribute the wealth, overseas and keep a slice for themselves. It's not that they want to ship jobs overseas at all. It's that they want business to be able to make those decisions for themselves. Big difference. How is it that the fact that it is economically feasible to send jobs overseas, and why that is so, isn't being addressed? Obama accuses China of illegal tariffs and subsidizing, but his response is to possibly add tariffs and to help subsidize?

mnottertail -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 7:22:57 AM)
That is a reason we as a people banded together and formed the US of A. It is in our economic interest to manage and control that. One way is taxation, another is tarriffs and duties. Hell, we can make that out and out illegal.

DesideriScuri -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 7:32:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail That is a reason we as a people banded together and formed the US of A. It is in our economic interest to manage and control that. One way is taxation, another is tarriffs and duties. Hell, we can make that out and out illegal. Sure, we could make it illegal. And, what would that get us? Imagine the effect on our wallets if it were illegal to outsource. http://www.ipc.org/feature-article.aspx?aid=Companies-move-operations-back-to-USA quote: “The main driver of decisions to return overseas operations to North America was quality control,” [Sharon] Starr [Director of market research for IP]said. “For decisions to locate new operations here, the primary driver was the need to be close to customers.” http://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3208-american-jobs-coming-back.html quote: The research revealed that rising labor costs in emerging countries, high oil prices and increasing transportation costs and global risks, such as political instability, are the motivating factors in bringing manufacturing operations back home. The study found that the aerospace and defense, industrial parts and equipment, electronics, and medical and surgical supplies are the industries leading the "reshoring" trend. In addition to rising costs and global risks, Schoenherr said companies are concerned with the erosion of intellectual property overseas and product quality problems. "From my communication with some firms, I also sense a genuine desire to help the U.S. economy and to bring back jobs," Schoenherr said.

mnottertail -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 7:39:11 AM)
Yeah, what is bad in that, imagine if we moved our jobs back home, competed globally, became competitive here as well, dropped out of GATT and NAFTA and all other unfair trade agreements, and raised tarriffs and duties on foreign goods. And as an added benefit, our GDP would be an actual GDP upon which to measure our taxation and wealth and debt.

DesideriScuri -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 7:42:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Yeah, what is bad in that, imagine if we moved our jobs back home, competed globally, became competitive here as well, dropped out of GATT and NAFTA and all other unfair trade agreements, and raised tarriffs and duties on foreign goods. And as an added benefit, our GDP would be an actual GDP upon which to measure our taxation and wealth and debt. If we are already off-shoring due to labor costs, what do you think will happen to those labor costs when off-shoring is illegal? What do you think would happen to our prices as a direct result?

mnottertail -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 7:52:29 AM)
So fucking what? Maybe you don't need that furlined sink, or the portugese wine, and can live with a china sink and some mad dog 20/20. So, we would know what it costs to produce some product. Lets say an lcd tv, the chinese can do it for $200 less (fairly calculated), ok, tarriff it $150, and the cost of tarriffed overseas goods reflect that. We lived on tarriffs and duties from the founding of this country till the income tax, and always had a surplus except in times of war. Why would the cost of labor skyrocket anymore than the lack of competition would and has created predatory pricing practices as well as shoddy merchandise?

Marini -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 12:59:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail So fucking what? Maybe you don't need that furlined sink, or the portugese wine, and can live with a china sink and some mad dog 20/20. So, we would know what it costs to produce some product. Lets say an lcd tv, the chinese can do it for $200 less (fairly calculated), ok, tarriff it $150, and the cost of tarriffed overseas goods reflect that. We lived on tarriffs and duties from the founding of this country till the income tax, and always had a surplus except in times of war. Why would the cost of labor skyrocket anymore than the lack of competition would and has created predatory pricing practices as well as shoddy merchandise? [sm=goodpost.gif] I still have yet to see how unbridled outsourcing has proved to be a "great thing" for the average American. Most of the MILLIONS of jobs we lost, have never been replaced, and most will not be replaced. Now we sit here and scratch our heads and try to figure out how to create jobs? [sm=banghead.gif] WTF? From where I am sitting, this country was doing a hell of a lot better (pre-1980's} before all this unbridled outsourcing. Often those that benefit the most from unbridled outsourcing are the soulless and greedy bastards at the top.

Moonhead -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 1:17:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie The question is, WHY are businesses moving overseas? Because the owners don't give a flying fuck how much damage they'll do to their homeland if they can find somewhere else that'll drop their manufacturing costs.

Yachtie -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 2:19:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie The question is, WHY are businesses moving overseas? Because the owners don't give a flying fuck how much damage they'll do to their homeland if they can find somewhere else that'll drop their manufacturing costs. An emotional response. Saying "think of the children" would be just about as effective.

Moonhead -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 2:48:04 PM)
Really? Go ahead and suggest an reason for outsourcing manufacturing that doesn't have to do with cutting overheads, then.

DesideriScuri -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 4:09:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail So fucking what? Maybe you don't need that furlined sink, or the portugese wine, and can live with a china sink and some mad dog 20/20. So, we would know what it costs to produce some product. Lets say an lcd tv, the chinese can do it for $200 less (fairly calculated), ok, tarriff it $150, and the cost of tarriffed overseas goods reflect that. We lived on tarriffs and duties from the founding of this country till the income tax, and always had a surplus except in times of war. Why would the cost of labor skyrocket anymore than the lack of competition would and has created predatory pricing practices as well as shoddy merchandise? What would prevent wages from skyrocketing? There would be absolutely no competition, as companies couldn't off-shore to take advantage of lower cost labor. It's tough enough keeping wages down in Union shops when you can't leave for better options without the NLRB coming down on your ass

Lucylastic -> RE: A Tale of Two Tags (10/30/2012 4:12:50 PM)
so it is ok for them to do it, but you still wanna blame politicians for not fixing the unemployment rate... gottit

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