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RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 10/31/2012 6:17:54 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
You simply don't get it at all. If outsourcing is going to save the business, isn't that a better option than simply closing?
What if the situation is not a matter of saving or not saving the business, and it is only done to increase profit and accelerate repayment to Bain? 


Have any proof that's the case?

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RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 10/31/2012 6:19:14 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Do you have proof of the other?  Because I spent about 15 years living the case I have cited (not with Bain, but other venture firms).

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RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 10/31/2012 6:46:53 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Do you have proof of the other?  Because I spent about 15 years living the case I have cited (not with Bain, but other venture firms).


And, the only thing ya'all ever did was outsource? Did it help the company, or did it simply suck all the money out of the business and then close?

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What I support:

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 10/31/2012 6:48:56 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		In every case the business failed, or was sold out and that operation was shut down.  But the venture capitalists were paid and profited.



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RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 10/31/2012 7:34:55 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
In every case the business failed, or was sold out and that operation was shut down.  But the venture capitalists were paid and profited.


Yet, that hasn't been Bain's results, now has it?

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 10/31/2012 7:57:39 AM   
subspaceseven


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Status: offline 		The business was doing fine before Bain purchased it, at least that is what is being reported on the news in this area. The only reason for moving is to improve profits, I get that..but you can't run for president saying you are going to save/create jobs, while you are profiting from closing up a US plant and reopening in China simply to improve profits.

Just tell the truth...and willard has failed to answer any questions regarding this issue, when he was in the area being questioned about it

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RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 10/31/2012 7:58:50 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
In every case the business failed, or was sold out and that operation was shut down.  But the venture capitalists were paid and profited.


Yet, that hasn't been Bain's results, now has it?


They have a pretty good bankruptcy rate and part out rate.  So it is kinda a WTF?

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 10/31/2012 8:03:47 AM   
subspaceseven


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Status: offline 		Really??? Ask the people in Kansas, where the steel plant was shut down, ask the people in Freeport whose jobs are going over seas, Bain has shut down many a business after running up debt..

Romney and Bain made over $100 million, a 2000% return, from a company that was driven into bankruptcy while workers, shareholders, and communities were devastated.

In 1992, Romney’s Bain Capital bought American Pad and Paper (Ampad) for $5 million. Bain began increasing the company’s debt dramatically in order to pay fees to Bain and finance rapid acquisitions. In three years, Bain had brought the company’s debt from $11 million to $444 million. At the same time, Bain was slashing wages and retirement benefits for workers.

we look at how his private equity firm, Bain Capital, drove a Kansas City steel plant into bankruptcy, leading to some 750 layoffs and a federal bailout. Bain still walked away with millions of dollars in profits

A simple google search will show you the companies Bain purchased, ran up the debt, forced into bankruptcy and made millions while the workers lost everything, pensions, healthcare, everything

< Message edited by subspaceseven -- 10/31/2012 8:04:06 AM >

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RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 10/31/2012 5:12:00 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven
Really??? Ask the people in Kansas, where the steel plant was shut down, ask the people in Freeport whose jobs are going over seas, Bain has shut down many a business after running up debt..
Romney and Bain made over $100 million, a 2000% return, from a company that was driven into bankruptcy while workers, shareholders, and communities were devastated.
In 1992, Romney’s Bain Capital bought American Pad and Paper (Ampad) for $5 million. Bain began increasing the company’s debt dramatically in order to pay fees to Bain and finance rapid acquisitions. In three years, Bain had brought the company’s debt from $11 million to $444 million. At the same time, Bain was slashing wages and retirement benefits for workers.
we look at how his private equity firm, Bain Capital, drove a Kansas City steel plant into bankruptcy, leading to some 750 layoffs and a federal bailout. Bain still walked away with millions of dollars in profits
A simple google search will show you the companies Bain purchased, ran up the debt, forced into bankruptcy and made millions while the workers lost everything, pensions, healthcare, everything


And, has Bain Capital done anything to improve a business? Thought so.

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  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 10/31/2012 11:05:25 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven

Really??? Ask the people in Kansas, where the steel plant was shut down, ask the people in Freeport whose jobs are going over seas, Bain has shut down many a business after running up debt..

Romney and Bain made over $100 million, a 2000% return, from a company that was driven into bankruptcy while workers, shareholders, and communities were devastated.

In 1992, Romney’s Bain Capital bought American Pad and Paper (Ampad) for $5 million. Bain began increasing the company’s debt dramatically in order to pay fees to Bain and finance rapid acquisitions. In three years, Bain had brought the company’s debt from $11 million to $444 million. At the same time, Bain was slashing wages and retirement benefits for workers.

we look at how his private equity firm, Bain Capital, drove a Kansas City steel plant into bankruptcy, leading to some 750 layoffs and a federal bailout. Bain still walked away with millions of dollars in profits

A simple google search will show you the companies Bain purchased, ran up the debt, forced into bankruptcy and made millions while the workers lost everything, pensions, healthcare, everything

It's called wealth redistribution, Romney-style.

Its basic principles are easy to grasp. Buy an asset-rich under-performing company, then run it into the ground, fire the workers and short change them (and everyone else) on their entitlements (eg. strip pension funds), take any external (especially Govt) funding you can get your mitts on (pun intended), realise the assets, divvy up the spoils and bury them deep in some obscure pension fund of your own where no one can their greedy socialistic mitts on it.

But wealth redistribution is bad I hear you say. It's un-American, it's socialist! Yup. All that - but so sooooooo lucrative as well if you can get away with it. Mittens calls it "making money the old fashioned way" - cute description I'm sure you'll agree.

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RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 11/1/2012 3:49:47 AM   
stellauk


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Status: offline 		We have just had a global economic crisis. Anyone still believes that free market principles will work as is dense as the Soviet communists who believed they would recover after the collapse of the Berlin Wall.

Part of me is hoping that Mitt Romney wins on Nov. 6 because the neocons might stop whining, blathering, and blaming Obama and start working with others and taking responsibility. But that would still require them to understand that it isn't all about them and you need more than wishful thinking and good intentions to rebuild an economy.

If he does win I give it two years before things start going seriously pear-shaped.

The thing is they have to make up stuff and give out false information simply because the neoliberalism of Barack Obama and the Democrats is working.

However the result on Nov 6 doesn't make a difference because those extreme right wing nut jobs won't disappear and being visible online for all the world to see they will still be doing what they can to turn America into a laughing stock throughout the whole world.

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RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 11/1/2012 3:55:35 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 11/1/2012 4:09:10 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk
We have just had a global economic crisis. Anyone still believes that free market principles will work as is dense as the Soviet communists who believed they would recover after the collapse of the Berlin Wall.
Part of me is hoping that Mitt Romney wins on Nov. 6 because the neocons might stop whining, blathering, and blaming Obama and start working with others and taking responsibility. But that would still require them to understand that it isn't all about them and you need more than wishful thinking and good intentions to rebuild an economy.


Wait. Hope and Change aren't enough?!?
quote:

If he does win I give it two years before things start going seriously pear-shaped.


I'm going to assume that's bad. I'm not being intentionally obtuse (sometimes it's just natural), but I just can't picture what "pear-shaped" is referring to.
quote:

The thing is they have to make up stuff and give out false information simply because the neoliberalism of Barack Obama and the Democrats is working.


Huh? It's working?!? If it's working, how is it that Romney is even close?
quote:

However the result on Nov 6 doesn't make a difference because those extreme right wing nut jobs won't disappear and being visible online for all the world to see they will still be doing what they can to turn America into a laughing stock throughout the whole world.


Perhaps the rest of the world should let us know that we are a laughingstock and not ask us for anything anymore.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to stellauk)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 11/1/2012 4:16:12 AM   
subspaceseven


Posts: 467
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Status: offline 		Your response is an open ended question...... Tell me when you run a company into the ground and fire everyone, how has that improved that business?

They have outsourced more jobs then they created, they have generated wealth for themselves at the cost of the American taxpayer, all those pension funds they robbed, the American taxpayer had to pay for them, since the only one willing to insure them was the US government.....

There are companies expanding overseas, who are not stealing from the employees and the American taxpayer, Bain is not one of them

I'm not saying Bain Capital does not have the right to make money, I just don't want the person who started the firm and is still making money off of Americans losing their jibs as President, cause the whole I'll create jobs falls short on honesty when you look at his record..hell even as MA gov. he failed at creating jobs

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 11/1/2012 4:27:00 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri


quote:

If he does win I give it two years before things start going seriously pear-shaped.


I'm going to assume that's bad. I'm not being intentionally obtuse (sometimes it's just natural), but I just can't picture what "pear-shaped" is referring to.




A term meaning "to go to hell in handbasket" or "when the shit hits the fan." Reportedly of British or Cockney origin, from the Royal Air Force's description of circular flight paths gone awry, or "pear-shaped."

Jus bein helpful

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 11/1/2012 4:29:28 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven
Your response is an open ended question...... Tell me when you run a company into the ground and fire everyone, how has that improved that business?
They have outsourced more jobs then they created, they have generated wealth for themselves at the cost of the American taxpayer, all those pension funds they robbed, the American taxpayer had to pay for them, since the only one willing to insure them was the US government.....
There are companies expanding overseas, who are not stealing from the employees and the American taxpayer, Bain is not one of them
I'm not saying Bain Capital does not have the right to make money, I just don't want the person who started the firm and is still making money off of Americans losing their jibs as President, cause the whole I'll create jobs falls short on honesty when you look at his record..hell even as MA gov. he failed at creating jobs


Are you going to state that Bain Capital (and/or all venture capital companies if you want to include them) are nothing but parasites; that they have no good to offer? How is it that Bain continues to do what they do?

Why would a business even go to Bain for help?

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What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 11/1/2012 4:30:49 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

If he does win I give it two years before things start going seriously pear-shaped.

I'm going to assume that's bad. I'm not being intentionally obtuse (sometimes it's just natural), but I just can't picture what "pear-shaped" is referring to.

A term meaning "to go to hell in handbasket" or "when the shit hits the fan." Reportedly of British or Cockney origin, from the Royal Air Force's description of circular flight paths gone awry, or "pear-shaped."
Jus bein helpful


Thanks. Never heard that phrase in this context before.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
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  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 11/1/2012 5:28:26 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri


quote:

However the result on Nov 6 doesn't make a difference because those extreme right wing nut jobs won't disappear and being visible online for all the world to see they will still be doing what they can to turn America into a laughing stock throughout the whole world.


Perhaps the rest of the world should let us know that we are a laughingstock and not ask us for anything anymore.

what part of that bolded part infers that america is the laughing stock now??
zero nada, zip, zilch buggerall, nowt, nothing!!!
just if the vulture and voucher win..


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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 11/1/2012 6:49:49 AM   
subspaceseven


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Joined: 3/2/2012
Status: offline 		Not all run to Bain some Bain purchases .....Just like the company in Freeport, they did not seek Bain to purchase them, Bain bought up their stock until they owned controlling interest...then ran up debt, and now moves them to China...leaves an empty building and people without jobs, that area has the highest unemployment in ILL. so every job lost hurts

Their job at Bain is to make money for their shareholders, no more no less, not to create jobs, not to help anyone just to make money which they are very good at, they just happen to destroy peoples lives in the process,

And the person who is running for President holds up the positives of Bain(to show he can run a business) but refuses to discuss the negatives it has on workers of this country, I don't want that person as my President.

So you have no problem with willards being a hypocrite ?? Says big GOV bad, but lets the Gov. bail out the pension funds Bain has robbed, uses tax breaks to make money for moving jobs overseas while saying he cares about American jobs, says he will create jobs but refuses to answers questions about people losing jobs while he profits from it...the list goes on

I'll repeat it again, I have no problem with him making money at bain, don't see it as something I want in my President

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Willards campaign passes out false info - 11/1/2012 11:31:01 AM   
DesideriScuri


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven
Not all run to Bain some Bain purchases .....Just like the company in Freeport, they did not seek Bain to purchase them, Bain bought up their stock until they owned controlling interest...then ran up debt, and now moves them to China...leaves an empty building and people without jobs, that area has the highest unemployment in ILL. so every job lost hurts
Their job at Bain is to make money for their shareholders, no more no less, not to create jobs, not to help anyone just to make money which they are very good at, they just happen to destroy peoples lives in the process,
And the person who is running for President holds up the positives of Bain(to show he can run a business) but refuses to discuss the negatives it has on workers of this country, I don't want that person as my President.
So you have no problem with willards being a hypocrite ?? Says big GOV bad, but lets the Gov. bail out the pension funds Bain has robbed, uses tax breaks to make money for moving jobs overseas while saying he cares about American jobs, says he will create jobs but refuses to answers questions about people losing jobs while he profits from it...the list goes on
I'll repeat it again, I have no problem with him making money at bain, don't see it as something I want in my President


You'd rather have a President whose business resume consisted of riling up enough people to demand changes for their benefit through intimidation?

Got it.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to subspaceseven)
Profile   Post #: 60
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