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SentForu -> Finances (11/5/2004 9:48:37 AM)
Finances, exactly how much emphasis is placed on this? I've seen in profiles, and even the message boards, where some people seem to have a lot to say about what they have (materialistically). What about those who are only middle class, comfortable, etc. Those, who work, but don't have the best of jobs. In looking for a partner, does it matter if they don't have the best in the world. Does it matter, if they can't give you everything you have ever wanted? I'm looking for all opinions, not just from one perspective. Thanks in advance.

LadyShoshin -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 10:12:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SentForu Finances, exactly how much emphasis is placed on this? I've seen in profiles, and even the message boards, where some people seem to have a lot to say about what they have (materialistically). What about those who are only middle class, comfortable, etc. Those, who work, but don't have the best of jobs. In looking for a partner, does it matter if they don't have the best in the world. Does it matter, if they can't give you everything you have ever wanted? I'm looking for all opinions, not just from one perspective. Thanks in advance. As long as my partner either works or has a pension, I don't care if he flips burgers or runs a Fortune 500 company. I had a year and a half of supporting someone who didn't pull their own weight and resisted any efforts on my part to explain to them how important that was. Going into hospital and being without income, I expected him to do his best to get some sort of job, any job to take the pressure off of me & he didn't. That was the final straw. So, now, when looking, I expect an applicant to be self supporting.

Destinysskeins -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 10:22:34 AM)
Greetings, Personally, i find that this is not such an all-consuming consideration for me. In the past i have been approached by quite a number of Doms with considerable financial resources - from Those who run their own corporations to Those with 'born money'. None of these individuals matched the qualifications that i had decided that i required from a Dominant. These non-monetary concerns (location, emotional stability, ability to act as a Male figure for my sons, interest in long-term potentials - ie marriage, etc, and so on) far outweighed the fact that they could buy me anything that i so desired. In my opinion life is a journey, not a purchase. Well wishes

Mercnbeth -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 11:08:26 AM)
Myra, When I determined it was the right time to bring a slave into my life finances were definitely a consideration, but maybe not in the way you think. I have a different view of this, and again I'm referring to a slave not a submissive. I think that distinction makes a difference. I have a 24/7 live in slave. I would not have a slave that had to work outside the household to support my household. A few years back I couldn't afford that situation and it was one of the few times in my adult life I didn't have, seek, or want a slave. I'm sure I have a rare if not unique definition of the Master / slave role but I believe it is the Master's role to care for every need of the slave, including financial. It is the slave's role to have one duty, full time 24/7 365 - pleasing me, the Master. As I remind beth regularly, she has but two things to concentrate on, the rules we agreed upon, and pleasing Me. Which, when I think about it, is really only one thing, except the rules are better documented, and not subject to mood, outside life distraction, or whim. beth is more then capable of a career. It was a sacrifice I demanded when she agreed to come into my house. And I recognize it is a sacrifice. I've often said true slavery, at least by my definition, is not for everybody. And finding a slave is no quick and easy task. It's as it should be, a slave is rare and valuable.

srahfox -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 12:20:02 PM)
Really it's a person by person thing. If you are looking for a matching personality to yours I think money has little to do with it. As long as the bills that need to get paid get paid... everythings fine. If you are looking for a wolking bank acount, that's when it's important. If you're looking for a person and whoever you're checking out wants a figure, or is making a big deal of thiers, more than likely not a good match

MaitresseEden -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 1:23:24 PM)
ok. I'm going to jump in here and say money is important to me, however not in the typical fashion one seems to expect from Dommes. While it is nice if someone has the luxury of a large about of disposable income in which to spoil and pamper a person, that part of finances arn't what I look at. The things that are important to me is budgeting, and control, and living within ones means. My pet peeve in the world is people who live above their means and are so over extended with credit. Appearances can be so decieveing and nothing is more irritateing to me to see someone so overextended that it creates a false reality. I'd rather eat tuna casserole than go to a fancy resturant if you can't pay cash for it, or pay the bill in it's entirely at the end of the month. Furthermore, I do admit openly to judgeing a person based on thier finances. I look to see how mature and responsible they are with them. If they are 45 years old and havn't begun to think about retirement funds and pension plans then I worry. Granted. There are circumstances that affect ones finances and those are always understood, and I don't value a person based on their portfolio, I just think we should all live within our means and accuratly represent their financial status. I despise deception on that part. As a single mom of a child with a chronic illness, medical bills and drug costs, coupled with lossing my shirt in the Enron debaucle greatly depreciated my net worth, however despite that hardship. I still live within my means, and while it is a challange at times, I manage because I don't do things on credit. For years I went without a cell phone, and once had a man tell me he couldn't date a woman without a cell phone, to which I replied, if it is that important to you then you pay for it. I refuse to "have" something because it appears to be necessary when at that time it wasn't affordable. Once it became absolutely necessary, and within my means I got one. When it comes to others I look at things such as do they buy quality when then make a purchase? Do they take care of the things they do buy? Do they understand the value of a $. How do they react when I whip out a coupon? I'll never forget the time I met a sub for dinner at Chili's and whipped out a coupon. He was freaked out, and offended. I said, well if you want to throw money away then so be it, but it makes me think less of you if you do. It's not that I seek out coupons and such but it an opportunity to save money presents itself then your foolish not to take advantage of it. anyway.. I'll put away my soapbox now. BIG SUBJECT with me. Ms. Eden

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 2:10:22 PM)
I have to agree with M. Eden. I raised two daughters on My own for many years. I do My best to live within My means ( no easy task these days ) and I work hard. I do not want a slave who expects Me to support him. I also believe there is a difference here between a Master's attitudes and a Mistress's attitudes. We're back to the same old "the man supports the woman". In My case, I have no problem taking your money. I deserve it. And it is part of My 24/7 D/s TPE dynamic. I also look at how one lives or does not live within a reasonable budget. When someone is $40,000 in debt and doesn't even own a home, I have to take a second look. "Are you ordering pizza three times a week?" I ask. "Yes", he says. It gives Me pause. I am very astute with money, but that doesn't mean I don't have unexpected situations at times. I look at the grocery store sales, and I am not flamboyant. I have a car loan. My credit cards are at -0-. I expect any slave to work and have reasonable health benefits and a determination made as to the leftovers, which belong to Me, of course. So the amount of money is not as important as the use of the money. It tells alot. I admit I am put off by someone who has $1500 per month in minimum payments. I am also put off by one who assumes that he will live with Me and pay his own bills, and keep the rest for his personal savings. I don't think that is reasonable. I have also had two applicants who had beautiful homes and exellent jobs and wished to have Me move to them. For Me that changes the entire dynamic, and I said "No". Neither was ready to give anything up for Me. So not the slaves for Me. Yet the money was there. Why didn't I take it? Yes it's about the money and no it is not about the money. This is a complicated issue and everybody will have their own take on it.

Leonidas -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 3:21:59 PM)
"True slaves" don't work? I think a "true slave" is property, no? As such, they are utilized in whatever way suits their owner based on the owner's perception of how they will be of the most value. I've had slaves that worked outside the home, and those who didn't, dependant on what I considered to the highest and best use of that particular slave. If I owned a girl who not only had highly marketable skills that she worked hard to develop, but who also thrived on the intellectual and social challenges that went with her profession, yet I insisted that she stay home all day and "please me" (whatever that might mean) I wouldn't be suprised to have an undermotivated and not unlikely depressed girl in my collar inside a year. Owning a human being is a complex proposition, but boils down to value in the end. When the slave is required by their master to develop their inate talents and abilities to their fullest they become more valuable and serve better in general, owing to healthy self-esteem. Something to think about.

Suleiman -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 3:28:43 PM)
Actually, I quite agree with M. Merc, in so far as owning a slave does represent a sort of financial responsibility. I would not go so far as to deny a slave that I owned the option of persuing a careerso long as it did not get in the way of household duties (but I am somewhat egalitarian that way), but part of the reason I haven't got one is that I am not financially solvent and therefore could not support one. As far as play partners, lovers, and other relationships that do not place quite so much responsibility on my shoulders, I am a poor man from a poor family. I live reasonably well because I am a cheap bastard who has learned to do without a lot of things that modern americans seem to consider nessities. I can cook, my wife can sew, and we both know how to avoid using credit cards for frivolous purchases. Because of this, I have found my options for lovers somewhat limited (once again, being somewhat egalitarian in my upbringing, I am occasionally offended at the ease with which females can slide by without having a visible means of income, but I do understand that the basic standards for the human mating ritual are not equal when comparing males to females, and women have their own prejudicial criteria to deal with) I don't consider money to be a factor in whom I choose, but I am aware that money is a factor in how I may be percieved. I try to compensate for this with intellect and wit, which do seem to win me a small but quite acceptable following. Actually, intellect is my prime factor for whom I play with. I have always had a standing rule never to have sex with someone I'm not willing to talk to over the breakfast table the next morning.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 4:06:31 PM)
Leonidas, I had to check, but I did say - "true slave". But I also said "by my definition". I think that's a critical part. And I also agree the potential to have a under-motivated and depressed girl is also there. I take responsibility for her "motivation". Any depression would only be caused by failing in that regard, or me not living up to my responsibility as Master. beth feels that her slavery IS the core of who she is, her development, and her talents; innate or other. I will have her respond in more detail directly to this issue, because hearing her speak for herself on this issue in the past, I know her convictions are stronger then I could relate speaking for her. Especially regarding any challenge to her self-esteem and value not only to me, but to herself.

MaitresseEden -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 4:21:17 PM)
At what point does the Dom/me then have responsibility for the mental health and self esteem of the "slave"?? All to often I see people hide being the title of "slave" in an effort to slack off and avoid taking responsibility for their life, and well being. I have also seen many devote themselves lovely to thier Dom/me only to have their Dom/me squander all thier investments and then dismiss them once they are penniless. Worse Case I have seen is a sub who was kept housebound in total slavery for 40 years by his Mistress, who had total control over the finances, when she died suddenly, he was essentially homeless and destitute as no plans had been made for his welfare. Ms. Eden

Suleiman -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 4:46:42 PM)
I consider this to be a core aspect of "noblesse oblige". I do not expect my concept of responsibility to echo anywhere except within the cavernous expanse of my own skull, but to my mind, if I am not able to support an additional person in my household, I have no right to lay claim to them as personal property. Institutional slavery in ancient times, and still today in some parts of the world, includes a concept of patronage as part of the duties and responsibilities of a slave owner. I would expect to be able to meet the basic needs of any slave I owned, but I would also consider it my right and duty to ensure their own ability to survive in the world outside. Some people, however, are basically homemakers. I most certianly am, and when I was in a 24/7, this was something that my owner recognised and acknowledged. She also actively pushed me to become an author, and her encouragement is part of why I now laughably call writing my career. Yes, many try to become a "slave" or "pet" as a way of avoiding responsibility. Slackers are slackers, and can be found in every community. I have not lain any judgement on anyone else's criteria, nor do I believe that merc did. From my point of view, it is a moral, ethical, and philosophical standard that I hold myself to as part of who I am. If I can not hold true to that inner belief, I wouldn't be much of a master, would I? We all make our choices, I have made mine, and I answered accordingly.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 4:51:37 PM)
Ms Eden, Again, and I hope I've been consistent with this, a Master takes on the responsibility and should be prepared for the responsibility for the mental health and self esteem of his slave. And any lax or slacking by the slave must be corrected immediately. And sometimes Master's get lazy and slack too. I've talked to many slaves who've experienced this. One, that beth is counseling now has this exact complaint after moving in real time with her formally strict long distance Master. I can't explain why it happens, but it does. That "worse case" you describe is just that. Everything beth had before is still 'hers' but not in use by Me/us. Anything coming to her - is kept for her. And I'm setting up a will and/or insurance to deal with that. I also think this should be as big a consideration as any other when considering a 24/7 Master / slave relationship. AGAIN - at least as I define it. NOT A REQUIREMENT - JUST MY VERSION.

willing2serve -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 5:31:36 PM)
My two cents worth (smile)...In finding the right Dom for me, I can honestly say occupation or wealth was never a top concern, even though I have no desire to be a money slave... So far my experience has been in looking for an intelligent and creative Dom and in that search, most owned their own company or was the CEO. I even questioned myself one day was I a "job snob", but I realized it was that driven personality that I was attacted to, so whether the Dom was financially secure never was an issue.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 6:41:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaitresseEden At what point does the Dom/me then have responsibility for the mental health and self esteem of the "slave"?? M. Eden makes some good points here, as have many others. The moment I place a collar and have a signed contract I consider Myself responsible for the boy's physical, mental, emotional and financial well-being. So I am careful about who I take or will even consider and how a contract is written. quote: All to often I see people hide being the title of "slave" in an effort to slack off and avoid taking responsibility for their life, and well being. I have also seen many devote themselves lovely to thier Dom/me only to have their Dom/me squander all thier investments and then dismiss them once they are penniless. I often have applicants whose expectations are what I call "the runaways". Some of them are even still married with young children and they are seeking a way to melt off the face of the earth. Yes, there are Dommes who will abuse the financial assets of a slave. Again, I say, read and agree to a contract. quote: Worse Case I have seen is a sub who was kept housebound in total slavery for 40 years by his Mistress, who had total control over the finances, when she died suddenly, he was essentially homeless and destitute as no plans had been made for his welfare. Ms. Eden Life happens, and I am not surprised that someone could be in slavery for 40 years and then be left destitute. I make arrangements for previous assets to be held, and hope for some current assets to be saved. But, I repeat, so many don't even prepare themselves for this lifestyle they wish for. Get rid of the house, get rid of the fancy car and the weekend motorcycle, the boat, the golf club membership, the expensive vacations, start living the life you should be "becoming accustomed to" and I will probably take you a bit more seriously. You will have a job if you are with Me. And you will have security and a contract. If you don't like the contract, don't sign it.

MiladyElaine -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 7:12:45 PM)
I just want to live comfortably in a home of O/our own! And believe Me, I am used to being frugal...I do however insist on it being a fresh home for U/us both. Just a personal thing about living where another woman has been and also an animal instinct about not wanting to live in the sub or slave's home.

stormiKnightBEAR -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 7:24:30 PM)
This girl can say honestly that she's had good and bad. In the same sense she can say too that she was starting to resent those who expect you to spend money on them with nothing back in return. And yes the term NOTHING back in return. This girl never asked for more than what was promised. Funny how promises were forgotten. But the bottom line is this. This girl works daily, she's got a streak that is too wide to live with at time about being financially dependant on anyone. But sometimes that is good too. It must be / almost has to be a personal thing. Did this girl have dreams of meeting someone with or without money? nope... just wanted someone who wanted her as much as she wanted Him. Someone who knew what hard work was and was not afraid to do it. Lucky for stormi, Master found her. stormi property of Master Bear

afmvdp -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 7:57:25 PM)
Well, again this is just from my viewpoint considering my background and my lifestyle, but as I've always been far better off than most it is far more so the norm for me to have live-ins which with it comes with it's own expectations. I've also had a few that wanted to have a job just to feel more productive, which wasn't a problem as they were still able to meet their necessary tasks and obligations in their other time. This money they made would always go into a seperate account though, which was normally used for splurging on new toys, clothes, trips, etc for us and my money still went to pay all the bills and my usual frivolities. This is why I understand and keep on my profile, all expenses paid and am one of the minority it seems from talking to others on this site that understands that means more than I'll just pay for the motel when we meet. ;)

SentForu -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 8:02:00 PM)
I'm a single mom as well. I work VERY hard, but it's not the best job in the world. I make an honest living for my family. The reason I asked this is, I have been "snubbed" in the past because of my job title. It's sometimes like an "I'm better than you because I have a better career...etc". Not in those words, but you can tell how the level of respect is lowered very quickly. I also agree, that it's important to live within your means. As single parents, it's hard not to. LOL, I don't even believe in credit cards. I stay as far away from them as possible. If I can't afford something right then, we don't get it. Emergency situations are different. MaitresseEden, I still have no cell phone myself. So, I know where you're coming from. It's always been like this though. Anyone who isn't as well off as others, is looked down on. I firmly believe in hard work. The way I view it is, as long as a person is putting 100% effort into it, doesn't matter if they don't get very far in life. It's all about actually trying. If you're not trying, I won't even consider you. Financial gain, does not make the person. It's who they are inside.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Finances (11/5/2004 8:11:09 PM)
Sorry to hear that, SentForU. I feel the same as Lady Shoshin. I don't care if you flip burgers...do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. I actually had an ex-slave who told Me he would never work at a McDonald's. It was beneath him. he is paid under the table as a bookkeeper and gets whatever state aid he can. Go figure. I once wrecked My arm for months when I had a night job throwing newspapers. And I am not ashamed of it. It helped to pay the bills. And do your best to live within your means. A slave's money is not going to impress Me. The sincerity and the heart will. Then I can always take a look at the whole picture.

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