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RE: deaths in Iraq hit 2500 - 6/17/2006 9:33:47 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

If more money could be made by selling oil to China, do you really think the oil barrons would keep any allegiance to the west? ie USA, UK, EU?

Do you have any information on how many countries China has their troops stationed in to guard huge oil reserves that the US cannot touch?

They are poised to be a much bigger consumer of petroleum products and other natural resources than anyone before them...which will no doubt trigger a whole new wave of geo-political upheavals and power games.

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RE: deaths in Iraq hit 2500 - 6/17/2006 9:57:57 AM

pahunkboy

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IMO- China is not to be taken lightly. When we declared the cold war over- we forgot- as tho China did not exist.

What I am saying- is if big oil could get more cash for energy in China then in the west, they would sell there.

It is a separate point - then the geo politics of oil.

The consumption way of life is not sustainable. Not for billions...

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RE: deaths in Iraq hit 2500 - 6/18/2006 10:24:14 AM

chastesubbie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Several things here. The west has had ample opportunity to reduce its reliance on third world oil through conservation and new technologies but for reasons we can only speculate it refuses to do so. Up to 30% of energy in the west is wasted. Could it be that our politicians are corrupt and in the pockets of the oil companies? Maybe but the truth is that ordinary people who could vote for change don't look further than the weekend, their next beer and their next good fuck.

Hey, nothing really wrong to looking forward to your next good fuck !! lol

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RE: deaths in Iraq hit 2500 - 6/18/2006 10:06:15 PM

caitlyn

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These discussions bring conflicting camps to mind:.

Continually beating the "why of this war" to death, with continual attacks on the President, the CIA, the this, the that ... is nothing more then lacking a complete understanding that being a super power isn't easy, and super powers make mistakes. There isn't a manual for being a super power, and unfortunately, there isn't a wise old modern super power to help the young and inexperienced United States through these difficult decisions. President Bush wouldn't be my first choice to be our leader, but the reality of the matter is that it appears pretty obvious that ninty-nine out of one-hundred in leadership positions in America, would have probably made the same decision, given the same circumstances. History is full of angry giants, making dumb decisions.

Contrast that with the blind support for anything U.S., and the continual attempts to link things that really are not linked at all, in an attempt to make our decisions "look good." I find these sorts of statements counter intuitive, and quite frankly, I find them unpatriotic. The United States is a young nation, and a very new super power. In spite of what the doom and gloom set is saying, the United States will be a world super power, probably for the rest of our lifetime, so we as a nation better learn how to make much better decisions. When people blindly support their country, and make up ways to justify bad decisons, they deny us the ability to learn from our mistakes ... and become part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.

My apologies for highjacking the thread.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 6/18/2006 10:07:34 PM >

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RE: deaths in Iraq hit 2500 - 6/19/2006 12:06:22 AM

MasterKalif

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: NewMaleSlave

iraq is a dying country we should all help it die quick

Actually, it isn't even a country. It's a place made up by men in European suits sitting in counties like England and Spain. They draw a line on a map and a "country" appears on a map but not in the soul of the people living there.

To anyone who recognizes the history and beliefs of the place, it's clear that there are three potential countries there. The Kurds in the north; the Sunni in the middle and the Shi'a in the south.

My feeling is just to let things take place as happened in India. Pakistan wasn't part of the English plan, but it appeared because it was clear that the lines Whitehall had drawn on a map were sufficient to the situation.

I hope the current "birth" isn't as bloody as that one was, but we aren't helping by acting as midwives shoving the emerging babies back into the mother's body and claiming it's for her own good.

John Warren, while I agree with you that Iraq is an extremely "fictitious" country (regarding that it was created by Great Britain sometime in 1918), the "Iraqis" do have common history, culture and language. It is true though that these ethnic and religious rivalries didnt come out before because it was administered by a monarchy (the most liberal of all regimes Iraq has experienced in my opinion) and then by several bloody succeeding dictatorships ending with Saddam. I think that unfortunately a very hard central authority has to replac the power vacuum existing in Iraq in order to force these people to tolerate each other again, reinforce what things they have in common, and then live in peace. If you think about it, during Spain's civil war (1936-1939) where more than 3 million Spaniards lost their lives, Spain could have been separated into several smaller "nations" between Catalans, Basques and other groups, which would have been chaotic. To separate Ira in several nations would be chaotic and destabilize the region further. I dont trust Iran gaining more power than what this war has "indirectly" given them....

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RE: deaths in Iraq hit 2500 - 6/19/2006 6:15:50 AM

pahunkboy

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Oddly enuff- China buying US debt- is funding the war in Iraq. Which is to secure oil. Dont get me wrong, I am all for preserving my way of life. I complain, but I do so well fed, well wired...in air conditioned home with ample square feet. Would I easily willingly give that up? HELL NO.

Don't forget, China goes back 5000 years. It had been a cultural and world power. HUGELY. [still is]

IMO we bought a few years of peace, by granting Bijing the 2008 Olympics. So that Tiwann would be left alone.

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Post #: 46