RE: Truth to the GOP

RE: Truth to the GOP (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 12:37:10 PM)
Didn't do Rush any harm, did it? (ETA, the shit prog band who did "Spirit Of The Radio", not the loudmouthed twat off the radio with a pill habit)

DomKen -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 12:37:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Salinedion Democrat-lite would be a disaster: No Rush, No Fox, and no real payday from indie voters who can pick democrat full-bodied extra brewed just as easily. Can a republic pull a Sister Souljah and call out some crazy Koran burner to play to the middle? I say no; it's at least net/net even in terms of who they'd lose on the far right -more likely a loser. They are who they are and a New Coke strategy will alienate the base. They need to shore up the various pissed off strands more than they need to reinvent: RINO, Country Club, Libertarian. I'm all those things; I sat out the election. To get me back, photoshopping a sombrero on to the Elephant trademark or calling for vague "tolerance" for gays aint gonna cut it. Signing on for Simpson Bowles and dropping the abortion bullshit? Maybe. I'll bet I sit out the next one too. The two parties used to be left of center and right of center respectively but both were moderate parties. The Democratic Party has not shifted left but the Republican party has shifted ever more rightward over the last 40 years or so.There is plenty of "room" for the Republican party to come back to the center. If the party base is so committed to a far right wing ideological purity then it will likely destroy itself and do lasting harm to this nation, keep in mind that the collapse of the Whig Party led to the Civil War.

Moonhead -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 12:49:36 PM)
How is the Democrat party left of centre? People who wouldn't recognise a lefty if he raped their wife calling the other party's president a "marxist" doesn't make them left of centre. The last leftist the Democrats produced was carter, and look what happened to him...

DomKen -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 12:52:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead How is the Democrat party left of centre? People who wouldn't recognise a lefty if he raped their wife calling the other party's president a "marxist" doesn't make them left of centre. The last leftist the Democrats produced was carter, and look what happened to him... Clinton was pretty clearly right of center, pro business, pro death penalty etc.. However Obama is pretty clearly left of center, pro Union, pro gay rights, in favor of stricter regulation etc..

Moonhead -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 12:55:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead How is the Democrat party left of centre? People who wouldn't recognise a lefty if he raped their wife calling the other party's president a "marxist" doesn't make them left of centre. The last leftist the Democrats produced was carter, and look what happened to him... Clinton was pretty clearly right of center, pro business, pro death penalty etc.. However Obama is pretty clearly left of center, pro Union, pro gay rights, in favor of stricter regulation etc.. Really? So what did he do in his first term that differed from the chimp being re-elected, then? If anything, he's to the right of Clinton.

DomKen -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 1:33:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead How is the Democrat party left of centre? People who wouldn't recognise a lefty if he raped their wife calling the other party's president a "marxist" doesn't make them left of centre. The last leftist the Democrats produced was carter, and look what happened to him... Clinton was pretty clearly right of center, pro business, pro death penalty etc.. However Obama is pretty clearly left of center, pro Union, pro gay rights, in favor of stricter regulation etc.. Really? So what did he do in his first term that differed from the chimp being re-elected, then? If anything, he's to the right of Clinton. Ended torture Reformed the college loan program Ended DADT Increased gas mileage standards Invested in alternative energy Got our troops out of Iraq

Moonhead -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 1:35:08 PM)
Your troops aren't out of Iraq just yet. You'll be saying that Carter ended dependency on foreign oil next.

Yachtie -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 1:40:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The Democratic Party has not shifted left but the Republican party has shifted ever more rightward over the last 40 years or so.There is plenty of "room" for the Republican party to come back to the center. What would the Republican Party have to accept in order to come back to the center? Gay marriage? Obamacare? Amnesty of some sort for Illegals? Gun control? Higher taxes? What?

Moonhead -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 1:44:28 PM)
That'd do for a start, but you'd need to add a higher tax rate for people earning more than half a million a year, punitive import duties on goods for companies who outsourced their manufacturing and a tax on religious groups as well.

stef -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 1:44:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie What would the Republican Party have to accept in order to come back to the center? Gay marriage? Obamacare? Amnesty of some sort for Illegals? Gun control? Higher taxes? What? Truth and sanity would be good places to start.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 1:53:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The Democratic Party has not shifted left but the Republican party has shifted ever more rightward over the last 40 years or so.There is plenty of "room" for the Republican party to come back to the center. What would the Republican Party have to accept in order to come back to the center? Gay marriage? Obamacare? Amnesty of some sort for Illegals? Gun control? Higher taxes? What? Higher taxes is going to be necessary like it or not. Take Obamacare and replace it with something better instead of just shrieking and posturing. RE: Illegals, who invited em here in the first place as cheap labor so big Agri could make fortunes? Get the hell out of America's bedrooms. And kick the TEAliban to the curb.

DomKen -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 1:54:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The Democratic Party has not shifted left but the Republican party has shifted ever more rightward over the last 40 years or so.There is plenty of "room" for the Republican party to come back to the center. What would the Republican Party have to accept in order to come back to the center? Gay marriage? Maybe less outright hatred for homosexuals quote: Obamacare? It is a market based attempt to provide universal health coverage. Seems to be right in the Republican wheel house. Or maybe you'd prefer single payer like Canada? quote: Amnesty of some sort for Illegals? Some sort of sanity on the issue at least. It is physically impossible to close the borders and it is clear that a significant part of our economy is built on low wage workers doing jobs no one else will do. quote: Gun control? Would you really repeal all gun control laws? Do you savor the ideas of people carrying concealed machine pistols? quote: Higher taxes? If you can balance the budget without raising taxes or cutting necessary government activities then no. Since that is a mathematical impossibility then yes it is time for the Republicans to accept that higher taxes are a necessity.

GotSteel -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 2:04:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML None of the three or four subsets of the Republican Party can wage a national election on its own. Witness the fate of the current Libertarian Party and the current Conservative Party. The small government, don't raise taxes, leave my guns alone, praise be to Jesus, we are the producers crowds are not going anywhere. Nor will they split apart. They will be baaaaaaack! I'm not talking about the party breaking up, just that they really should stop branding their moderate members "RINOs".

DesideriScuri -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 5:51:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael If the GOP was actually the party they claim to be, I would be happy to be a republican. I believe in hard work, personal responsibility, freedom. Sadly, the GOPs actions show they dont. They undermine workers rights, bailout wallstreet and the banks, and restrict freedom at every turn. Undermine workers' rights? That view is as slanted as saying that Democrats undermine employers' rights. When did the bailouts start? Oh, yeah, under Bush. It's a good thing Bushie had that R House and R Senate to get those things passed. Edited to add: Both parties are all about restricting freedom at every turn. This is something We the People need to stop allowing.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 5:59:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri So, the idea is that the GOP needs to move closer to the Democrat Party? You talk about needing two functioning major parties. If the only difference between the two is the name, how is that going to spur on new and fresh ideas? And, if the GOP "moves towards the middle," wouldn't that be intimating that they get to "choose" their beliefs, making them not actual beliefs? Not closer to anyone but stop fighting battles that are settled. Just consider Roe v Wade is almost 40 years old. Would it have been acceptable for a major US politcal party to still support segregation in 1994 (40 years after Brown v Board). Also at present we're not seeing differnt approachs to the problems this nation faces. The Republicans simpy deny that income inequality, climate change and health care are problems. Democrats are so impressed by previously Republican ideas (Romneycare and Cap and Trade) that they're trying to implement them but Republicans are fighting the efforts without putting forward any alternatives except to ignore the problems. Income inequality isn't a problem, unless those at the bottom are being prevented from making more. quote: Let the Republicans be the voices of market based solutions. They need to stop being the busybodies staring disaprovingly through the curtains at their neighbors who don't meet their standards of normal. Agree completely.

tazzygirl -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 6:06:44 PM)
quote: When did the bailouts start? Oh, yeah, under Bush. It's a good thing Bushie had that R House and R Senate to get those things passed. Pst.. he did have that R House.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 6:14:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: When did the bailouts start? Oh, yeah, under Bush. It's a good thing Bushie had that R House and R Senate to get those things passed. Pst.. he did have that R House. pst... nuh uh.

Owner59 -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 6:29:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: Dom Ken The Democratic Party has not shifted left but the Republican party has shifted ever more rightward over the last 40 years or so.There is plenty of "room" for the Republican party to come back to the center. What would the Republican Party have to accept in order to come back to the center? Gay marriage? Obscure? Amnesty of some sort for Illegals? Gun control? Higher taxes? What? The answers: 1....It`s none of your fuck`n business....keep your bigotry to yourselves...take a guess on whether that`s a yes or a no... 2....Yes....again...it`s none of your fuck`n buiness.....you have health insurance..... 3....You do what you think is best......good luck with that..... 4....With no real issues....you guys have to make fake ones up....check. 5....Only on folks who pay a rate less than the average American pays..... Beside the fake, gun bullshit.....every issue was debated and part of the last election. There was a class war and........ we won it.... Buh-bye bush tax cuts for millionaires.....Hello tax fairness. Truth be told...I hope glum old party goes more extreme...goes more Galt...goes more and more out of touch and more and more out of relivance.....By all means......double down.....triple-down... So far.....you party hasn`t disappointed.

DomKen -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 6:32:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Income inequality isn't a problem, unless those at the bottom are being prevented from making more. That is the problem. There is less opportunity. It's harder to get a high quality education, a gateway to success. Most middle class jobs pay less, in real terms.

tazzygirl -> RE: Truth to the GOP (11/12/2012 6:50:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: When did the bailouts start? Oh, yeah, under Bush. It's a good thing Bushie had that R House and R Senate to get those things passed. Pst.. he did have that R House. pst... nuh uh. OOps... you are right. The seats flipped that election.... but as always, everyone includes the Blue Dogs... who were anything but party loyal. http://www.mydd.com/2005/4/28/congressional-loyalty-scorecards-part-four-blue-dog-democrats This question brings to the forefront an even more important question; are the claims made by the Blue Dogs supported by evidence? In my research, I�ve shown that in the 104th and the 110 th Congress the BDC has voted more conservative than their counterparts, as reported by NTU scores and ATU scores, while remaining significantly lower than the average of non-Blue Dog Democrats in terms of party unity scores. The NOMINATE scores, additionally, have proved to show that Blue Dogs are indeed more conservative than their counterparts on the -1 to 1 spectrum Which is why they are on their way out

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