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RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 12:37:10 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Didn't do Rush any harm, did it?

(ETA, the shit prog band who did "Spirit Of The Radio", not the loudmouthed twat off the radio with a pill habit)

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 11/12/2012 12:38:19 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 12:37:18 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Salinedion

Democrat-lite would be a disaster: No Rush, No Fox, and no real payday from indie voters who can pick democrat full-bodied extra brewed just as easily.

Can a republic pull a Sister Souljah and call out some crazy Koran burner to play to the middle? I say no; it's at least net/net even in terms of who they'd lose on the far right -more likely a loser.

They are who they are and a New Coke strategy will alienate the base. They need to shore up the various pissed off strands more than they need to reinvent: RINO, Country Club, Libertarian.

I'm all those things; I sat out the election. To get me back, photoshopping a sombrero on to the Elephant trademark or calling for vague "tolerance" for gays aint gonna cut it.

Signing on for Simpson Bowles and dropping the abortion bullshit? Maybe.

I'll bet I sit out the next one too.

The two parties used to be left of center and right of center respectively but both were moderate parties. The Democratic Party has not shifted left but the Republican party has shifted ever more rightward over the last 40 years or so.There is plenty of "room" for the Republican party to come back to the center. If the party base is so committed to a far right wing ideological purity then it will likely destroy itself and do lasting harm to this nation, keep in mind that the collapse of the Whig Party led to the Civil War.

(in reply to Salinedion)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 12:49:36 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		How is the Democrat party left of centre?
People who wouldn't recognise a lefty if he raped their wife calling the other party's president a "marxist" doesn't make them left of centre.
The last leftist the Democrats produced was carter, and look what happened to him...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 12:52:14 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

How is the Democrat party left of centre?
People who wouldn't recognise a lefty if he raped their wife calling the other party's president a "marxist" doesn't make them left of centre.
The last leftist the Democrats produced was carter, and look what happened to him...

Clinton was pretty clearly right of center, pro business, pro death penalty etc.. However Obama is pretty clearly left of center, pro Union, pro gay rights, in favor of stricter regulation etc..

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 12:55:02 PM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

How is the Democrat party left of centre?
People who wouldn't recognise a lefty if he raped their wife calling the other party's president a "marxist" doesn't make them left of centre.
The last leftist the Democrats produced was carter, and look what happened to him...

Clinton was pretty clearly right of center, pro business, pro death penalty etc.. However Obama is pretty clearly left of center, pro Union, pro gay rights, in favor of stricter regulation etc..

Really?
So what did he do in his first term that differed from the chimp being re-elected, then? If anything, he's to the right of Clinton.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 1:33:03 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

How is the Democrat party left of centre?
People who wouldn't recognise a lefty if he raped their wife calling the other party's president a "marxist" doesn't make them left of centre.
The last leftist the Democrats produced was carter, and look what happened to him...

Clinton was pretty clearly right of center, pro business, pro death penalty etc.. However Obama is pretty clearly left of center, pro Union, pro gay rights, in favor of stricter regulation etc..

Really?
So what did he do in his first term that differed from the chimp being re-elected, then? If anything, he's to the right of Clinton.

Ended torture
Reformed the college loan program
Ended DADT
Increased gas mileage standards
Invested in alternative energy
Got our troops out of Iraq

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 1:35:08 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Your troops aren't out of Iraq just yet.
You'll be saying that Carter ended dependency on foreign oil next.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 1:40:09 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The Democratic Party has not shifted left but the Republican party has shifted ever more rightward over the last 40 years or so.There is plenty of "room" for the Republican party to come back to the center.


What would the Republican Party have to accept in order to come back to the center?

Gay marriage?
Obamacare?
Amnesty of some sort for Illegals?
Gun control?
Higher taxes?


What?







_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 1:44:28 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		That'd do for a start, but you'd need to add a higher tax rate for people earning more than half a million a year, punitive import duties on goods for companies who outsourced their manufacturing and a tax on religious groups as well.

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 11/12/2012 1:45:46 PM >

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 1:44:41 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

What would the Republican Party have to accept in order to come back to the center?

Gay marriage?
Obamacare?
Amnesty of some sort for Illegals?
Gun control?
Higher taxes?


What?

Truth and sanity would be good places to start.

_____________________________

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"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 1:53:30 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The Democratic Party has not shifted left but the Republican party has shifted ever more rightward over the last 40 years or so.There is plenty of "room" for the Republican party to come back to the center.


What would the Republican Party have to accept in order to come back to the center?

Gay marriage?
Obamacare?
Amnesty of some sort for Illegals?
Gun control?
Higher taxes?


What?







Higher taxes is going to be necessary like it or not.
Take Obamacare and replace it with something better instead of just shrieking and posturing.
RE: Illegals, who invited em here in the first place as cheap labor so big Agri could make fortunes?
Get the hell out of America's bedrooms.
And kick the TEAliban to the curb.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 1:54:46 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The Democratic Party has not shifted left but the Republican party has shifted ever more rightward over the last 40 years or so.There is plenty of "room" for the Republican party to come back to the center.


What would the Republican Party have to accept in order to come back to the center?

Gay marriage?

Maybe less outright hatred for homosexuals
quote:

Obamacare?

It is a market based attempt to provide universal health coverage. Seems to be right in the Republican wheel house. Or maybe you'd prefer single payer like Canada?
quote:

Amnesty of some sort for Illegals?

Some sort of sanity on the issue at least. It is physically impossible to close the borders and it is clear that a significant part of our economy is built on low wage workers doing jobs no one else will do.
quote:

Gun control?

Would you really repeal all gun control laws? Do you savor the ideas of people carrying concealed machine pistols?
quote:

Higher taxes?

If you can balance the budget without raising taxes or cutting necessary government activities then no. Since that is a mathematical impossibility then yes it is time for the Republicans to accept that higher taxes are a necessity.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 2:04:56 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
None of the three or four subsets of the Republican Party can wage a national election on its own. Witness the fate of the current Libertarian Party and the current Conservative Party. The small government, don't raise taxes, leave my guns alone, praise be to Jesus, we are the producers crowds are not going anywhere. Nor will they split apart. They will be baaaaaaack!


I'm not talking about the party breaking up, just that they really should stop branding their moderate members "RINOs".

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 5:51:11 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
If the GOP was actually the party they claim to be, I would be happy to be a republican.
I believe in hard work, personal responsibility, freedom.
Sadly, the GOPs actions show they dont. They undermine workers rights, bailout wallstreet and the banks, and restrict freedom at every turn.


Undermine workers' rights? That view is as slanted as saying that Democrats undermine employers' rights.

When did the bailouts start? Oh, yeah, under Bush. It's a good thing Bushie had that R House and R Senate to get those things passed.

Edited to add: Both parties are all about restricting freedom at every turn. This is something We the People need to stop allowing.

< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 11/12/2012 5:52:04 PM >

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 5:59:50 PM   
DesideriScuri


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, the idea is that the GOP needs to move closer to the Democrat Party? You talk about needing two functioning major parties. If the only difference between the two is the name, how is that going to spur on new and fresh ideas? And, if the GOP "moves towards the middle," wouldn't that be intimating that they get to "choose" their beliefs, making them not actual beliefs?

Not closer to anyone but stop fighting battles that are settled. Just consider Roe v Wade is almost 40 years old. Would it have been acceptable for a major US politcal party to still support segregation in 1994 (40 years after Brown v Board).
Also at present we're not seeing differnt approachs to the problems this nation faces. The Republicans simpy deny that income inequality, climate change and health care are problems. Democrats are so impressed by previously Republican ideas (Romneycare and Cap and Trade) that they're trying to implement them but Republicans are fighting the efforts without putting forward any alternatives except to ignore the problems.


Income inequality isn't a problem, unless those at the bottom are being prevented from making more.

quote:

Let the Republicans be the voices of market based solutions. They need to stop being the busybodies staring disaprovingly through the curtains at their neighbors who don't meet their standards of normal.


Agree completely.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 6:06:44 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

When did the bailouts start? Oh, yeah, under Bush. It's a good thing Bushie had that R House and R Senate to get those things passed.


Pst.. he did have that R House.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 6:14:48 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

When did the bailouts start? Oh, yeah, under Bush. It's a good thing Bushie had that R House and R Senate to get those things passed.

Pst.. he did have that R House.


pst... nuh uh.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 6:29:55 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dom Ken

The Democratic Party has not shifted left but the Republican party has shifted ever more rightward over the last 40 years or so.There is plenty of "room" for the Republican party to come back to the center.


What would the Republican Party have to accept in order to come back to the center?

Gay marriage?
Obscure?
Amnesty of some sort for Illegals?
Gun control?
Higher taxes?


What?








The answers:

1....It`s none of your fuck`n business....keep your bigotry to yourselves...take a guess on whether that`s a yes or a no...

2....Yes....again...it`s none of your fuck`n buiness.....you have health insurance.....

3....You do what you think is best......good luck with that.....

4....With no real issues....you guys have to make fake ones up....check.

5....Only on folks who pay a rate less than the average American pays.....

Beside the fake, gun bullshit.....every issue was debated and part of the last election.

There was a class war and........ we won it....

Buh-bye bush tax cuts for millionaires.....Hello tax fairness.

Truth be told...I hope glum old party goes more extreme...goes more Galt...goes more and more out of touch and more and more out of relivance.....By all means......double down.....triple-down...

So far.....you party hasn`t disappointed.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/12/2012 6:36:28 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 6:32:50 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Income inequality isn't a problem, unless those at the bottom are being prevented from making more.

That is the problem. There is less opportunity. It's harder to get a high quality education, a gateway to success. Most middle class jobs pay less, in real terms.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Truth to the GOP - 11/12/2012 6:50:43 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

When did the bailouts start? Oh, yeah, under Bush. It's a good thing Bushie had that R House and R Senate to get those things passed.

Pst.. he did have that R House.


pst... nuh uh.


OOps... you are right. The seats flipped that election.... but as always, everyone includes the Blue Dogs... who were anything but party loyal.

http://www.mydd.com/2005/4/28/congressional-loyalty-scorecards-part-four-blue-dog-democrats

This question brings to the forefront an even more important question; are the claims made by the Blue Dogs supported by evidence? In my research, I�ve shown that in the 104th and the 110 th Congress the BDC has voted more conservative than their counterparts, as reported by NTU scores and ATU scores, while remaining significantly lower than the average of non-Blue Dog Democrats in terms of party unity scores. The NOMINATE scores, additionally, have proved to show that Blue Dogs are indeed more conservative than their counterparts on the -1 to 1 spectrum

Which is why they are on their way out

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 60
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