Topping from the bottom? (Full Version)

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SimplyMichael -> Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 9:02:03 AM)

I am curious how some of you see this conundrum. If slaves can, at least in theory, "tp from the bottom" and control a scene, then that opens up all sorts of questions.

Which is the more dominant act, being a socially accepted dominant, behaving as we expect, using the imagery and props of dominance to be dominant, or remaining dominant while tied up, gagged, and being fucked in the ass by your slave?

If you can be topped from the bottom, by someone in such a vulnerable and defenseless place, do you have much to feel dominant about?



LaTigresse -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 9:28:08 AM)

In my mind, you are mixing up two different things.

Topping and bottoming, scening, do not necessarily have anything at all to do with dominance. And visa versa.

Then, as you often seem to do, adding a sexual act to get people to measure, who is topping, bottoming, dominating submitting......it just ends up a.......depends on the people involved, who is doing the observing, etc.

In my mind, tops and bottoms focus on scening. Enjoying whatever it is they are doing. People having sex focus on having sex. Enjoying what it is they are doing.

Dominant people that are secure in who they are, don't worry about whether or not they are being topped. They focus on the relation/s they are in. That being said, you don't have to be dominant to top. Nor does a bottom need to be submissive. Submissive people focus on submitting to the person that is dominating them. Not who is topping or bottoming.

Michael, quit worrying about whether or not people are going to see you as a submissive little pansy ass just cuz you like to get ass fucked. Focus on having a relationship, of whatever sort you and she/he want, with the person fucking your ass.



Toysinbabeland -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 9:30:13 AM)

I could never submit to a switch, and don't get a Dominant who allows himself to be topped.
That would ruin it for me.
To each their own.....



Kana -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 9:33:48 AM)

Only if someone's bottoming from the top. [8D]



myotherself -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 9:36:57 AM)

What LaT said.

I am a slave. Sometimes Master allows others to play with me. They are not dominating me - he is. They are topping me. And I am bottoming to them. They will not get the same level of subservience that I give Master because, well, they are not my Master. I will give them instruction (don't leave marks, don't hit there because of whatever reason) because this is just top/bottom play, not Master/slave interaction.

With Master I do not dare even try controlling our play. He does what the hell he likes, and I take it.

While the kind of scenario that was mentioned (Master tied up and having things shoved up his ass) is not something that I could deal with in my own relationships, there are plenty out there who would happily do this kind of play with their other half.

As LaT said, don't worry about labels and technicalities - all you need to do is find someone who is happy with the kind of relationship that works for you and, if labels are that important, create a few of your own [:D]



SimplyMichael -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 9:41:10 AM)

While I love being rimming, tongues are the only thing I enjoy in my ass, you seem to enjoy something quite larger.

The phrase "topping from the bottom" is a universal term used by many, not just tops and bottoms.

I talk about these sorts of things because I dont care what small minded people think, clearly doing so galls some people. If you are in Hawaii next year, there is a great kink event, Leather and Leis, I am one of the major presenters, feel free to say hello.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 9:46:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland

I could never submit to a switch, and don't get a Dominant who allows himself to be topped.
That would ruin it for me.
To each their own.....


You missed the entire point of the post. It was thinking.like yours that inspired it.

Both conditions cant exist, one must be false.

If ordering someone to top you is submissive, then it is impossible to top from tbe bottom. If topping from the bottom is possible then one can remain dominant while bottominn.



Toysinbabeland -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 9:48:53 AM)

While I understand what you are saying, I'm agreeing, in my own way, that the action changes how I would perceive the Dominant....
I don't think it's a bridge that isn't burnt.



LadyPact -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 10:14:03 AM)

Michael, I think you start these kinds of posts to be a pain in the ass and not in a good way. [8D]

Congrats on the Leather and Leis event! Posts like these will keep your name out there.

OK. The topic. Since I already know that you know Dominants who bottom and subs that top, I am trying to get your point. Are there folks out there who see a person who bottoms as less (trying to grab a good term there and that probably wasn't it) of a Dominant? Yes. Does that make them wrong for seeing it that way? Not in My opinion. If the person viewing the scene can no longer see that person as 100% Dominant, that's part of what they need from the person that they submit to in their life.

From there, I see two different things. One is the person who is saying fuck you, I don't care what you think of My actions in a scene, I'm Dom anyway. The other is the opinions of those around and does someone care enough about their own submissive that a quick thrill isn't worth being seen differently in that person's eyes.

Maybe I haven't had enough caffeine, but this is all about perception. What if the scene wasn't about sex? What if it was a humiliation scene instead? I think resistance play could mess with somebody's outlook, stripping away somebody's control, and remove that "tool" of Dominance as well.







xLaChienne -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 10:16:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
I am curious how some of you see this conundrum. If slaves can, at least in theory, "tp from the bottom" and control a scene, then that opens up all sorts of questions.


Not really. IMO it means that the slave is manipulative, not inherently submissive or dissatisfied with their dominants lack of dominance, and the person who allows it is not inherently dominant or insecure and untried.

quote:

Which is the more dominant act, being a socially accepted dominant, behaving as we expect, using the imagery and props of dominance to be dominant, or remaining dominant while tied up, gagged, and being fucked in the ass by your slave?


Dominance is a personality trait and not an act.

quote:

If you can be topped from the bottom, by someone in such a vulnerable and defenseless place, do you have much to feel dominant about?


When navigating scenes you quickly learn how to handle those who need to try and top from the bottom.

Again, dominance is a personality trait. You don't feel it, you are it. If you need something external to feel dominant then I would suggest spending more time on self actualization.



Toysinbabeland -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 10:22:08 AM)

If you are dehydrated and in the desert, and you are offered a glass of water with just a smidgen of lethal poison, it still kills you.
Forever.
And that's a mighty long time.


I'm saying that a Dom can do whatever they pleases but once they allow themselves to be topped, they've done so as a CHOICE.
how much more telling is it?

I want to understand the distinction you are making.
I'm trying.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 10:38:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland

If you are dehydrated and in the desert, and you are offered a glass of water with just a smidgen of lethal poison, it still kills you.
Forever.
And that's a mighty long time.


I'm saying that a Dom can do whatever they pleases but once they allow themselves to be topped, they've done so as a CHOICE.
how much more telling is it?

I want to understand the distinction you are making.
I'm trying.


Step back and look at your own analogy, bottoming is POISON?

You are confusing "act" with "motive". As a matter if preference, its fine. I am simply talking conceptually.

Let me flip your analogy on its head, if forcing your submissive to flogg you.makes you forever tainted, what does that do to the obedient submissive?



DaddySatyr -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 10:54:15 AM)

To my mind, I think the terms are getting interwoven, here. I don't really engage in BDSM play much. Certainly, I don't "scene" so if I am a "top" at all, I'm a crappy one.

That said; in my relationships, I am dominant. If I am not the steward of the relationship, I don't want to be in it.

Now, I have seen relationships where it is painfully obvious that the person who identifies as "submissive" is actually running the show. I think, to a degree, that is a run over from their scening experinces. I could be wrong. As I said; I have little "scening" experience.

To be completely fair, though, I think that there some ladies that can be so manipulative and sneaky that for a time they can be topping from the bottom, even though the dominant may not know it is happening. I know it has happened to me where a lady has been doing things without my knowledge and when the ball drops, I realized what had been going on for the past couple of months. It happens.

Anyway, to answer the OP more specifically: As far as I am concerned, in a scene the bottom has all the power. They have a safeword. That's it. Game over. pack up your toys. It's time to go home.

In a relationship, the submissive is only supposed to have the power to decide (on a daily basis) if they wish to keep serving that dominant. If they wish to serve, then by definition, they need to relinquish that power or they are, indeed, topping from the bottom.



Peace and comfort,



Michael



ARIES83 -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 10:54:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

In my mind, you are mixing up two different things.

Topping and bottoming, scening, do not necessarily have anything at all to do with dominance. And visa versa.

Then, as you often seem to do, adding a sexual act to get people to measure, who is topping, bottoming, dominating submitting......it just ends up a.......depends on the people involved, who is doing the observing, etc.

In my mind, tops and bottoms focus on scening. Enjoying whatever it is they are doing. People having sex focus on having sex. Enjoying what it is they are doing.

Dominant people that are secure in who they are, don't worry about whether or not they are being topped. They focus on the relation/s they are in. That being said, you don't have to be dominant to top. Nor does a bottom need to be submissive. Submissive people focus on submitting to the person that is dominating them. Not who is topping or bottoming.

Michael, quit worrying about whether or not people are going to see you as a submissive little pansy ass just cuz you like to get ass fucked. Focus on having a relationship, of whatever sort you and she/he want, with the person fucking your ass.


QFT, and[sm=rofl.gif]

I don't do scenes and no real notion of what a tops
and bottoms are... Besides maybe bdsm playmates.

When you talk about Doms/subs in this context I
think I get a bit confused... A sub dosen't dominate
a her dom.

As for the master remaining dominant while being
tied up gagged and fucked in the ass by a slave...
You have totally fucking lost me.

-Aries



LaTigresse -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 11:17:14 AM)

Based upon the snark in his reply to me, I am guessing I didn't get his intent either.

Unless my memory fails me, which at the ripe ancient age of 50 1/2 years it is very possible, I've seen multiple posts by the OP about dominant persons getting fucked in the ass by their s-type persons. Enough so that I honestly believed that it was a form of play that he enjoyed and had a problem with how others, especially s-types, view the act.

Yet he so unmasterfully sunk to snark about my ass. Ample though it is, I don't believe I've ever asked one of MY s-types to insert anything in it. The largest thing I can remember having in my ass would have been a turd, on the way out. The only enjoyment has been in it's exit.

On topic, I don't see getting fucked in the ass either an act of dominance or submission. It's fucking. Others obviously see it differently. To each their own.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 11:25:28 AM)

I wasnt refering to the size of your ass, simply the location if your cranium. Perhaps next time you will read closer before complaining that the "pansy ass" was snarky.



evesgrden -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 11:31:49 AM)

Topping from the bottom: a submissive who is trying to get her way via trickery, word games, being a SAM, deliberate misbehavior, instead of just saying "do you feel like playing?" or "may have a spanking please?".

Topping: taking charge of the scene, typically with some negotiation in advance.

Bottoming: it's being done to you. Lie back and enjoy. Do as your told. You may end up doing many things, but making decisions will not be one of them.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 11:35:44 AM)

LadyPact

I start these sort of discussions becuase not everyone has the broad base of experience someone like,youself,has been lucky enough to witness. People who only contact with others is the net or perhapa one small local group havent been exposed to the wide potential for some serious mind bending relationship possibilities. Especially,if,their experience is primarily with het male dom fem sub dynamics. That and many arw from fly over country, lol



sexyred1 -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 11:38:27 AM)

I don't really understand the issue here.

I don't see this as a "conundrum". Again, we are talking about labels instead of individuals.

If you are a Dominant person and you tell your submissive to fuck you in the ass, you are getting what you want, correct?

So why worry about how any other submissive or Dominant feels about this other than your own submissive?

Of course, there will be submissives who would feel their Dominant is no longer Dominant because he or she is getting fucked in the ass, but I don't. I see it that they are telling me what to do. Would I be into that? NO, but that is just my opinion.

I hate the term topping from the bottom. It is really ridiculous and justifies Dominants saying that to submissives who have an opinion or hard limit. I liken it to "you are not really submissive".




LaTigresse -> RE: Topping from the bottom? (11/11/2012 11:41:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I wasnt refering to the size of your ass, simply the location if your cranium. Perhaps next time you will read closer before complaining that the "pansy ass" was snarky.


Perhaps you will read closer. I never suggested you were commenting on the size of my ass. I WAS. Listen, it's no secret that your posting history here has garnered you no respect from me......so I will just bow out and let you figure out exactly what you did mean in your OP and others can have some sort of constructive conversation about it.

Good luck.



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