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Not easy for the GOP. - 11/15/2012 5:00:14 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		I feel sorry for them, sorta. Its problems include living in a comfortable bubble, and clinging to a shrinking demographic.

1. The conservative wing - what has to be done with it? It's easy for us Dems to look at the rabid nuts there and say "Dump them from the party", but they're an integral part of it. That'd be like someone telling us to drop the Hispanics or blacks from our coalition because they're causing trouble.

2. How much do they change? It's easy to say they should emulate the Dems, but Then they lose. The Dems have been Dems for a long time and do it well. The GOP needs to do something to differentiate themselves from the Democrats. So it appears they must find what in the Dem platform to adopt, and what in their current platform to preserve.

3. They've been living in a bubble. In that bubble, Obama is a horrible tyrant, Dems are made up of lazy freeloaders, and the wealthy are noble benefactors who provide jobs to the nation. As long as they persist in living in that bubble, they will never be able to understand the rest of America.

So what do they do?

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."
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RE: Not easy for the GOP. - 11/15/2012 5:28:58 AM   
subspaceseven


Posts: 467
Joined: 3/2/2012
Status: offline 		The people in the GOP who want to continue to win elections are starting to speak up, and standing up somewhat to the extreme views pushed on them by the teabaggers..

Even Jindal is speaking out against willard saying that willard blaming the loss on free gifts, such as birth control for women, allowing college students to stay on their parents health insurance, looking at ways to make college more affordable are not the reason willard lost.

It's going to be an interesting civil war within the GOP to see who wins and what the next primary will look like....

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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the death of common sense - 11/15/2012 5:32:31 AM   
ElChupa


Posts: 117
Joined: 11/14/2009
Status: offline 		These are the be nice republicans who don't mind losing. The thing is, Mitt is right. How do you beat santa claus obama? Give away more stuff? Be nicer to minorities? I think we bend over BACKWARDS as it is. The other side doesn't give a crap about being nice to us. They insult us every day. And the answer is to take it better? The answer is what you are going to get... capital hidden, spending down, business expansion out the door. Go print more money and see how that works out for you. Let soros fund the government. I think we are too far gone, frankly. Hell, it's still somebody else's fault, right? That's the way of the demo party. Attack, smear, destroy, blame others.

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RE: the death of common sense - 11/15/2012 5:40:36 AM   
subspaceseven


Posts: 467
Joined: 3/2/2012
Status: offline 		Did you sign the petition yet? If it is soooo bad here, you are free to leave....don't let the door hit you as you cross the border

(in reply to ElChupa)
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RE: the death of common sense - 11/15/2012 5:53:16 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Glad that we have a representative of the bubble to tell us what reality looks like from the inside.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to subspaceseven)
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obama phones and common sense - 11/15/2012 5:58:40 AM   
ElChupa


Posts: 117
Joined: 11/14/2009
Status: offline 		Oh it's gonna get worse, my friends. Poor little minorities had their feelings hurt... lets see, women needing free birth control... obama phones... oh yes it will get worse. The middle east on all fronts is set to blow up. Meanwhile, your Dear Leader will blame some freaking movie nobody saw as the cause. Why we can't upset the muslims! China will pull the plug on our game... no more money! Look, leftists, the producers of this country did not get that way by being STUPID. We know how to hide our wealth, and that is exactly what we are doing now. I just think minorities like blacks are more concerned with ... well, I know it's not a strong economy or bettering their own people. Socialism does even the playing field... it makes everybody miserable. So you'll get that. And, handy people to blame BUT NOT DEAR LEADER! Dear Leader will continue handing out obama phones until the Chinese tell him to stop. Let me know how that all turns out, will you?

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: the death of common sense - 11/15/2012 5:59:27 AM   
QueenRah


Posts: 380
Joined: 6/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Glad that we have a representative of the bubble to tell us what reality looks like from the inside.


You forgot to place quotation marks before and after "reality."

_____________________________

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(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: obama phones and common sense - 11/15/2012 6:01:27 AM   
ElChupa


Posts: 117
Joined: 11/14/2009
Status: offline 		The sad thing is there really isn't anywhere else to go to. Like I said... lets see how all this socialism works out for you. Y'all keep em fat, dumb, stupid and voting for the donkey. Hows that war on poverty working out for ya? Lots of compassion with other peoples' money. Not so good on results. Poverty is higher than when the war on poverty started. Of course it's all because of "racism" which is defined as anything the left wants to define it as. Just make it up!

(in reply to ElChupa)
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RE: Not easy for the GOP - 11/15/2012 6:03:31 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		and there we have a complete break with reality.

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\(•_•)
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(•_•)
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Dont Hate Love

(in reply to ElChupa)
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RE: Not easy for the GOP. - 11/15/2012 6:06:03 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I feel sorry for them, sorta. Its problems include living in a comfortable bubble, and clinging to a shrinking demographic.
1. The conservative wing - what has to be done with it? It's easy for us Dems to look at the rabid nuts there and say "Dump them from the party", but they're an integral part of it. That'd be like someone telling us to drop the Hispanics or blacks from our coalition because they're causing trouble.
2. How much do they change? It's easy to say they should emulate the Dems, but Then they lose. The Dems have been Dems for a long time and do it well. The GOP needs to do something to differentiate themselves from the Democrats. So it appears they must find what in the Dem platform to adopt, and what in their current platform to preserve.
3. They've been living in a bubble. In that bubble, Obama is a horrible tyrant, Dems are made up of lazy freeloaders, and the wealthy are noble benefactors who provide jobs to the nation. As long as they persist in living in that bubble, they will never be able to understand the rest of America.
So what do they do?


The answer isn't to capitulate and mis-represent yourself. If you stand for conservative values, you stand for conservative values, not values that depend on who you are talking to at the moment. If you support gay marriage, there is no need to redefine your Party tag. You can be a Republican that believes gay marriage is correct. There will come a point in time, however, when a Republican will look more like a Libertarian. Once could also stand as a Republican because of fiscal conservatism, without having to support all the planks of the party of R.

My point is that you have to define what a Party stands for. Each individual member of that Party, then, has to be able to state why he/she takes that mantle, as opposed to the other label. Ron Paul isn't really a Republican. He's a Libertarian. Republicans have significantly more support and appeal than Libertarians at this point in time.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: obama phones and common sense - 11/15/2012 6:12:41 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		ElChupa, I really shouldn't take the bait, and I'll likely just put you on Ignore like I did your ArizonaBossMan sock. But till then:

1. Your implied contention is that the driver of the economy is the reward for running a company. In the current economy, the factor holding things back is the lack of money in the middle class, which is strangling purchasing power. In other words, the forces that have made the current wealth distribution historically inequitable, are killing us. Despite your opposition to increasing the current historically low tax rates on the wealthy, it's the only path forward.

2. Please note that even Boehner recognizes the inevitability of a tax hike on the rich. His latest statements basically say "Yeah, increase their tax rates, but make it look like it's a tax code reorganization instead of a tax hike so I can save face."

3. We've been upsetting the Muslims for years. Obama's drone strikes aren't tremendously popular with them. That and the OBL strike, done in sovereign Pakistani territory without informing the Pakistanis, didn't go over big there. Did you notice?

4. BTW, the Muslim world is not monolithic. There's that Sunni-Shia thing.

5. Thank you for sharing with us that blacks are committed to weak economies and being abject failures. I can't tell you how much they appreciate your thoughtful insights into a world you know nothing about.

Okay. I've said my piece. You're back on hide until you return with a new sock.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to ElChupa)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Not easy for the GOP. - 11/15/2012 6:14:23 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I feel sorry for them, sorta. Its problems include living in a comfortable bubble, and clinging to a shrinking demographic.
1. The conservative wing - what has to be done with it? It's easy for us Dems to look at the rabid nuts there and say "Dump them from the party", but they're an integral part of it. That'd be like someone telling us to drop the Hispanics or blacks from our coalition because they're causing trouble.
2. How much do they change? It's easy to say they should emulate the Dems, but Then they lose. The Dems have been Dems for a long time and do it well. The GOP needs to do something to differentiate themselves from the Democrats. So it appears they must find what in the Dem platform to adopt, and what in their current platform to preserve.
3. They've been living in a bubble. In that bubble, Obama is a horrible tyrant, Dems are made up of lazy freeloaders, and the wealthy are noble benefactors who provide jobs to the nation. As long as they persist in living in that bubble, they will never be able to understand the rest of America.
So what do they do?


The answer isn't to capitulate and mis-represent yourself. If you stand for conservative values, you stand for conservative values, not values that depend on who you are talking to at the moment. If you support gay marriage, there is no need to redefine your Party tag. You can be a Republican that believes gay marriage is correct. There will come a point in time, however, when a Republican will look more like a Libertarian. Once could also stand as a Republican because of fiscal conservatism, without having to support all the planks of the party of R.

My point is that you have to define what a Party stands for. Each individual member of that Party, then, has to be able to state why he/she takes that mantle, as opposed to the other label. Ron Paul isn't really a Republican. He's a Libertarian. Republicans have significantly more support and appeal than Libertarians at this point in time.


DesiderScuri, this isn't really an answer to you, but I just wanted to say that I appreciate conservatives like you and Rich, who disagree with me but are able to discuss things rationally.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Not easy for the GOP - 11/15/2012 6:16:11 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		On fiscal issues, the GOP will never have it easy, they'll be resented for having money "real or imagined" or being "tight" with it. On social issues, it'd help if they'd mind their own business more. Realistically, if they find a way to connect with the somewhat conservative hispanic community, the dems would be in trouble.

< Message edited by Level -- 11/15/2012 6:19:21 AM >

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Not easy for the GOP - 11/15/2012 6:36:19 AM   
misanthropicdom


Posts: 27
Joined: 9/13/2012
Status: offline 		What I'm hearing from the Right is: "We have to change the way we say things."

Not "We have to change the way we think and approach things."

It's like when late in the campaign Romney started talking publicly about abortion being OK in the case of rape, incest, or danger to the mother's health, but his web site, and the GOP website with its platform, continued to adamantly say no abortion any time under any circumstance.

Some seem to think that sort of doublespeak on issues will work for them. I'll be surprised if it does.

In general, when older white males are your big demographic, nature says your demographic is dying off of old age. If they don't change their way of thinking AND their message, they are slowly on the way to irrelevancy.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: obama phones and common sense - 11/15/2012 7:27:03 AM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElChupa

The sad thing is there really isn't anywhere else to go to. Like I said... lets see how all this socialism works out for you. Y'all keep em fat, dumb, stupid and voting for the donkey. Hows that war on poverty working out for ya? Lots of compassion with other peoples' money. Not so good on results. Poverty is higher than when the war on poverty started. Of course it's all because of "racism" which is defined as anything the left wants to define it as. Just make it up!

Oh, there's lots of other places to go, but either they're better than the USA as far as social medicine, education, etc., and they won't let you in, or they'll let you in, but I for one wouldn't want to live there. It must suck being so full of hate and arrogance.

(in reply to ElChupa)
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RE: St. Wrinklemeat phones and drooling imbeciles - 11/15/2012 7:34:16 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		FR-

It sort of makes me wanna holler when shit is stacked so high, and people are so proud of it.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: St. Wrinklemeat phones and drooling imbeciles - 11/15/2012 8:01:52 AM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

FR-

It sort of makes me wanna holler when shit is stacked so high, and people are so proud of it.

That's the sad part of all this. Their ideology is so out there that compromise simply isn't possible, since it would be compromising with a fever-vision. And it's only going to get worse, such as all this wild talk about secession, and about assassination. I predicted four years ago that Obama's first election would not be a 'great leap forward in civil rights' as everyone was saying at the time. I predicted that it would precipitate a racial crisis. I was right.

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: St. Wrinklemeat phones and drooling imbeciles - 11/15/2012 8:41:56 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		What worries me is that those Republicans that WERE able to work towards compromise, are being targeted and defeated by the teapublicans.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to DaNewAgeViking)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: obama phones and common sense - 11/15/2012 8:44:33 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElChupa

Poverty is higher than when the war on poverty started.

Bullshit and lies. Where the hell do you buy your Kool-Aid?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to ElChupa)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Not easy for the GOP. - 11/15/2012 9:10:22 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
DesiderScuri, this isn't really an answer to you, but I just wanted to say that I appreciate conservatives like you and Rich, who disagree with me but are able to discuss things rationally.

Me too. Like all things in life goodness is oft-times found in some sort of balance. I think there are (or at least used to be) good solid reasons for being "conservative". I share a lot of them. For instance I don't truly understand why we spend more than we make every year. I am definitely fiscally conservative. Sadly there is no fiscally conservative party right now so I can't really vote for that. I am pro-business in that I'd like to craft an environment that was conducive to operating a business effectively and efficiently. I'm down with trying to minimize and streamline regulations. But in the end I think the job of the government is to serve it's citizens and I don't believe corporations are people. What is "good for business" is child and slave labor yet I'm not in favor of those things. I wish to serve actual humans first and then, within the confines of "what is good for humans" try to figure out what is "good for business".

Personally I find lots of interesting discussions to have with conservatives who actually have their feet planted in something resembling reality. Many times those discussions change my own viewpoint to some degree... sometimes completely.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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