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RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 9:40:42 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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Joined: 3/15/2012
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quick reply

I know there's not enough information to give a decent answer on this specific issue, I was more interested in whether you had an overall way of thinking about this type of situation.

The original thread didn't have all the answers either, but for those who are interested she already had two collars in an attempt to overcome the discomfort, but still found it very uncomfortable. No suggestion of allergies. The impression I got (but wasn't clear) was that she didn't like having anything close fitting around her neck at all. And the collar was to be worn when at home because it wasn't work suitable, no other information on it.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)

Post #: 21

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 9:53:27 AM

AllisonWilder

Posts: 296
Joined: 10/8/2012
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I'm a pick your battles type, myself. Mild discomfort? Too bad. Excruciating pain or allergies? Then I'll figure something else out.

As far as not being comfortable with something close-fitting around the neck, I would figure out another way. A lot of people aren't comfortable with things around their necks for whatever reason (past experiences, feelings of suffocation or claustrophobia) and I'd be inclined to put the mental welfare of my sub ahead of my desire to make them wear a collar.

My live-in doesn't wear a collar. I opted for a bracelet (similar to a medical ID bracelet, not just a regular piece of jewelry) to accommodate legitimate concerns on his end while satisfying my desire to have him collared (braceleted? lol). It can't be taken off easily and it suits the lifestyle we live.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 22

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 10:00:46 AM

theRose4U

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Joined: 8/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

There's honestly not enough information here for Me to tell you one way or the other. Is the collar being worn all of the time? What's the source of discomfort? An actual allergy? Is it too heavy? Is it some big metal thing that digs into her neck? What the complaint is about has everything to do with how it should be handled.

Why not keep that collar for times when he wants her to be uncomfortable and buy something else for every day? (Not a good method if it's a serious complaint, but if it's slight discomfort, why not?)

While I'm always saying that submission isn't only about things you like, I do still pick My battles. I'd hope to think that I take the information at My disposal and use that in making decisions. Will there be times that I say, too bad, do it anyway? Yes. The thing is I counter that with looking at the potential result and what effect that is going to have.

I'm agreeing with not enough info. If its a sub that's perpetually whiney & complains about everything...I personally wouldn't be collaring them. If its heavy, pointed or is causing physical damage I would compromise. Past sub had allergy that necessitated 24k gold or titanium as my collar choices. While the silver one I really wanted on him was hot, taking his well being into account meant not giving him the collar of MY DREAMS because of cost in gold.

Being dominant doesn't mean being a dick for no rational reason. If this collar is actually harmful, even a sadist would have to weigh whether her pain & possible injury serves to benefit the relationship or harm trust.

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 23

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 10:36:18 AM

CynthiaWVirginia

Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
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If there was no allergy nor red spots, didn't endanger him in any way, it would probably hit me hard that he was rejecting a symbol of our relationship. Kind of like marrying a man who refuses to wear a wedding ring (when wearing a ring would not endanger him in any way).

Since my father was such a whore (he even boffed one of my babysitters, the lady who lived upstairs in our duplex), having a guy who wants to be my marked territory does something for me. In some illogical way, it helps to heal some of my trust issues somewhat. After being raised by my father it was hard to have faith in any man being faithful. To my knowledge, nobody I was ever with cheated on me...but part of me expected it to happen (men are just men was my attitude) and I expected not to look too closely into what he was up to...and to deny it to myself in a million different ways if I ended up with a mate who was a cheater. This is just childhood expectations that are hard to shake off, my apologies if any of the male population is insulted.

It's more than a sexual turnon. It pleases the hell out of me to be with a guy who is so blatantly mine...and yes, it is mind altering...to experience that wide eyed wonder that I should have felt as a child. It's like spending a lifetime scoffing at Santa Claus...and then finding out that he is real and that magic exists.

Sometimes through talking...things like necklaces/collars can take on a deeper significance. My boy and I are lucky to be the same in this; symbols of claiming and being claimed does something for both of us.

He wears a chainmail collar, chainmail bracelets and ankle bracelets 24/7. When people ask about them, he could shrug them off as helping with arthritis (some of the links are copper), but most of the time he feels free to tell them that his girlfriend owns him and has the only keys to the lock. (I wouldn't make him walk around with some huge dog collar 24/7 or wear something that hurt, restricted his neck movement or triggered PTSD.)

If someone couldn't proudly wear some symbol of our D/s relationship, as in a necklace, bracelet, anklet, ring, tattoo, piercing, then it would bother me. It's not enough that they "Suck it up, Butercup" and do as I ask while biting back their resentment. Nor would it be enough if they wore it just to humor me; a wedding ring wouldn't be a mere "decoration" on someone's hand. Whether on neck, finger, ankle, wrist, etc., neither should a collar. If it doesn't have meaning for both of us, it's false advertising.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 24

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 10:45:36 AM

evesgrden

Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
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I'm a "know your submissive" type.

I think the dominant in question needs to ask his submissive "Is this a genuine complaint, or is just fyi stuff?". In addition, the submissive needs to know from their dominant whether suffering is part of the intent of wearing the collar, and how much suffering should that entail.

Tis an issue of communication my friends, and not one of "being too soft". If the dominant wants to be soft.. guess what.. they get to. It's good to be Queen :D

I get to be soft if I want to, or a tormentor if I want to. I can do either as many times in a row as it suits my fancy. If I'm soft several or even many times in a row and he starts to think I'm being weak.. guess what again.... he'll find out it was rather silly to jump to that conclusion. Furthermore, I do not want my submissive to suffer without my knowing it.. I need that information. Yes I need to hear the complaints particularly if he thinks for some reason I don't know that it hurts, or if I'm underestimating how much it hurts. I after all cannot make good decisions if they're not informed decisions. Once I know however, I had better not be hearing anything other than moaning.

We like moaning :)

And all that said... one doesn't want to go to the distressful suffering well too often. The bottom line is we pair up with someone because being with them is a wonderful; experience. For some, that comes from masochism and service, and I want my submissive to want to serve and to want to endure for me. If you push things too far, at some point they would rather not be with you than suffer through it. Not a good thing for anyone.

So it's a fine line to walk. I think the only other issue is if the dominant suspects the submissive is whining over something inconsequential, or there's been a change in dynamic and now the submissive doesn't get off on service, or they don't want to endure for the dominant anymore. In that case, well "Lucy you got some 'splainin' to do". Are you into this or not?

_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

(in reply to theRose4U)

Post #: 25

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 12:32:15 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

quick reply

I know there's not enough information to give a decent answer on this specific issue, I was more interested in whether you had an overall way of thinking about this type of situation.

The original thread didn't have all the answers either, but for those who are interested she already had two collars in an attempt to overcome the discomfort, but still found it very uncomfortable. No suggestion of allergies. The impression I got (but wasn't clear) was that she didn't like having anything close fitting around her neck at all. And the collar was to be worn when at home because it wasn't work suitable, no other information on it.

Oh, it's still a good thread. It gets people thinking.

I'm not a submissive, but I am one of those folks who doesn't like anything around the neck that is tight fitting. If I were submissive an actual collar would never work for Me.

Plus, MP is allergic to certain metals, so My head honestly goes there.

Anyway, if the not close to the neck thing was the issue, I'd have to say, yes, know your submissive before this comes up. If I knew that to begin with, I'd have probably suggested a bracelet or an anklet. Maybe something really cute with bells on it. (I know. Some days I'm such a chick.)

I think, when someone takes a submissive on as their own, you are accepting both who they are and who they might be. Very much the same as with a person's hard limits. Sure. It's great if they change over time, but when you collared that person, you knew they had boundaries. Those things are a part of the deal.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 26

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 12:41:09 PM

AthenaSurrenders

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I think the collar has so much deep meaning to so many people that maybe I should have used some other theoretical examples as well. Cynthia, for example, a collar to you is clearly extremely important. If something (anything) meant that much to my dom I would absolutely understand and respect his decision to insist despite my reservations.

How would people react if it was something less charged with emotion? Let's say the dominant wants the sub to always wear a certain type of underwear which the sub finds uncomfortable. Or to always be barefoot at home when the sub often feels chilly. Or to scrub the patio weekly when it ruins their nails?

(gosh it's hard to think up examples where the person would be uncomfortable but not at risk of harm, anyone help me out?)

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 27

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 1:15:00 PM

SylvereApLeanan

Posts: 8275
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From: Hell
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This all reverts back to negotiation. If there's a legitimate health issue involved, such as the sub needing to wear only cotton underwear to avoid infections or me not wearing my favorite perfume because my sub has allergies, then I have to put on my big girl panties and learn to live without those things. However, if the sub is whining about her nails getting ruined from doing necessary chores...suck it up, buttercup.

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl

"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 28

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 1:44:53 PM

Kana

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Joined: 10/24/2006
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Discomfort won't make me change my mind. Hell, I'll enjoy watching her suffer and laugh at her misery(Kinda like engaging in anal sex). A legit health reason is a whole different ballgame. That will get me to reconsider.
Which, after all, is just plain old common sense.
I'll hurt her, but I won't damage her...if ya know what I mean.

But suffering, fuck yes, slave are made for that (Among other things:-p)

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

Post #: 29

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 1:48:02 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Discomfort won't make me change my mind. Hell, I'll enjoy watching her suffer and laugh at her misery......

But suffering, fuck yes, slave are made for that (Among other things:-p)

We really need a thread again that goes over this territory. I know there will only be a few of us but, damn! That's the good stuff!

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 30

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 2:07:02 PM

Kana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Discomfort won't make me change my mind. Hell, I'll enjoy watching her suffer and laugh at her misery......

But suffering, fuck yes, slave are made for that (Among other things:-p)

We really need a thread again that goes over this territory. I know there will only be a few of us but, damn! That's the good stuff!

So go Gal!

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 31

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 2:25:37 PM

LaTigresse

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Yay!!!

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 32

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 2:27:37 PM

frazzle

Posts: 1212
Joined: 6/20/2009
Status: offline

I dont have allergies to collars.

I just find anything, including roll neck jumpers, just make me feel sick within an hour and im constantly trying to pull them away from my neck, they can be as loose as you like.

If someone wants me to constantly be threatening to throw up, go for it. Most reasonable people dont see it as a power struggle or problem. Like other things, we talk about it and if we cant agree, work out what is more important, the relationship or a collar. Same applies to other things we dont match on.

< Message edited by frazzle -- 11/16/2012 2:28:18 PM >

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 33

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 2:34:55 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
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A sadist would make you do it, just to watch you struggle with the throwing up thing.........

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to frazzle)

Post #: 34

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 2:36:18 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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From: Hell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

A sadist would make you do it, just to watch you struggle with the throwing up thing.........

Get outta my head!

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl

"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 35

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 2:41:55 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

A sadist would make you do it, just to watch you struggle with the throwing up thing.........

Oh, the memories... retching and/or vomiting is to disgust what a scream is to pain.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 36

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 2:42:44 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

We be baaaaaaad!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 37

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 3:21:38 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

The sub finds it unpleasant: not panic-attack-inducing, abject misery, but a legitimate complaint such as constant discomfort. Do you insist, or do you adapt/rescind the order?

I don't intend to repeat the mistake of rescinding.

As for adapting, sure, I'll do that... usually before I open my mouth in the first place.

Seriously, though, if she feels I'm not taking care of her, I'll absolutely listen and it certainly needs to be resolved, but barring anything unforeseen and/or dangerous, we are going to be having a discussion about whether to do it again, not a discussion about whether to obey in the first place. Still, I'm not infallible, and I even take requests, so there is interactivity in the matter in the long term: we set a course for what I want, which happens to include having happy, content, growing, thriving people in my life. Her feedback is invaluable in determining whether I'm accomplishing that or not.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 38

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 3:28:07 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline

As far as that collar thing, he should be a man instead of being a cheap ass. Change the collar not your orders. Shell out some cash and get a comfortable collar.

samdarella (my slave) has a silver property tag/collar. The chain is custom made to be an endless loop without a clasp and it is beautiful, but it catches her hair now and then. It’s not a daily irritation and she has no complaints about it. Literally we find a couple hair fragments in it over the course of a week. However, I plan to get a different chain. The way I look at it, that collar is a representation of me . . . it should be perfect.

As far as the rest

The subordinate finds it unpleasant – so what, suck it up.
The subordinate finds it abject misery – then we consider making a better plan.
The subordinate has a legitimate complaint – then I listen.

I constantly adapt and my partners always have a voice, but my partners are smart enough to “pick their battles” because there's no mamby pamby bullshit in my house.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 39

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 3:59:45 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
(gosh it's hard to think up examples where the person would be uncomfortable but not at risk of harm, anyone help me out?)

Sure... how about real life?

The reason I call Carol "socially submissive" is that she does not just submit to me. She submits to pretty much anyone she runs into that doesn't get dumped into the asshat category. So when I wanted Carol to wear her collar 24/7 I set up a serious problem for her. In her mind she imagines "the public" saying "you must conform" and she wants to obey. On the other hand, I'm saying, "You must stick out like a sore thumb" and she must obey.

The collar was, in fact, deeply meaningful to me... much like the wedding ring in fact. But it was not THAT meaningful. She was suffering despite having worn the damned thing for 2 years. I remolded myself just as ruthlessly as I remold Carol when appropriate and dropped the emotional significance to the collar.

I still want her to learn to take up more space in the outside world but now that I realize the nature of the problem I'm facing I'm approaching the problem much more subtly. Carol was never at any risk of "harm" in the non-emotional sense. But it was definitely harmful emotionally and so I stopped the pain until I could rewire her a bit.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 40

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