RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/16/2012 9:17:55 AM)

 See .....Fats tries to bumper-sticker the issue.....targets the weakminded and lies ........all at once....



Edwynn -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/16/2012 9:19:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I am sure the Union protectionist will try and obfuscate this thread but attacking the nutritional valve of Wonderbread and Hostess HoHos but here is a classic example of a Union selling its rank and file down the drain. The Teamsters understood in this economy concessions had to be made but for some reason The Baker's decided they wanted Hostess shut down, their assets sold off and a fraction of their rank and file, rehired down the line for less money and less benefits.

18,500 people without a job

Let's hear a hardy well done for the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union! Lets hold hands and sing the Internationale!

Merry Christmas!

OH... and for the people who might try and hijack over the nutritional value of a Twinkie... Somebody else will be making and selling them along with the rest of the Hostess line.

UNION STRIKE KILLS CUPCAKE KING



A few Wall St. bankers cost the country over 8.5 million jobs, and roosted millions of the honest along with the dishonest home buyers and re-fiers out of their dwelling. And got multiple millions of taxpayer dollars to fund their exorbitant bonuses in the process.

But unionized twiinkie makers are the downfall of society, you are saying.

OK, yeah, I think I see the problem we have in this country



Hillwilliam -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/16/2012 9:21:01 AM)

From the OP, it looks like a coupla hundred management types and union bosses managed to fuck close to 20,000 people out of a job to line their pockets.

A coupla hundred is about 1% of 18,500.

Noone ever said the 1% was all Conservatives.



mnottertail -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/16/2012 9:24:34 AM)

Well the OPie is lying.  From the article:

But thousands of members in its second-biggest union went on strike late last week after rejecting in September a contract offer that cut wages and benefits. Officials for the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union say the company stopped contributing to workers' pensions last year.





Owner59 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/16/2012 9:24:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I am sure the Union protectionist will try and obfuscate this thread but attacking the nutritional valve of Wonderbread and Hostess HoHos but here is a classic example of a Union selling its rank and file down the drain. The Teamsters understood in this economy concessions had to be made but for some reason The Baker's decided they wanted Hostess shut down, their assets sold off and a fraction of their rank and file, rehired down the line for less money and less benefits.

18,500 people without a job

Let's hear a hardy well done for the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union! Lets hold hands and sing the Internationale!

Merry Christmas!

OH... and for the people who might try and hijack over the nutritional value of a Twinkie... Somebody else will be making and selling them along with the rest of the Hostess line.

UNION STRIKE KILLS CUPCAKE KING



A few Wall St. bankers cost the country over 8.5 million jobs, and roosted millions of the honest along with the dishonest home buyers and re-fiers out of their dwelling. And got multiple millions of taxpayer dollars to fund their exorbitant bonuses in the process.

But unionized twiinkie makers are the downfall of society, you are saying.

OK, yeah, I think I see the problem we have in this country


And claims not to be a republican.....[8|]



mnottertail -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/16/2012 9:35:17 AM)

So, if we examine this in the correct light (as the teabagger neo-cons do) we find  that Texas seceding is the cause of the Twinkies bankruptcy.

And once again, W is good with that.



Yachtie -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/16/2012 9:47:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven
They are blaming the union, but when one looks at their stock prices and management, this is a surprise to no one.


True. In the end, navigating the unionist minefield can really be a bitch and does fall upon management's inability to do as union instructed. On the other hand, really, if you think about it, would Hostess have gone the way of the Dodo had management not had to deal with a union?



subspaceseven -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/16/2012 9:55:46 AM)

Or it could be that the market changed and they did not..

All well and good, however management has not suffered the same reduction in pay throughout both bankruptcy filings as the factory workers has...

so much for equal responsibilities

Market share dropped, not the cause of the person in the factory.......but only they are suffering..why not have the CEO.CFO take a hit also?????? No NO white collar gets to keep their money and retirement package



Yachtie -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/16/2012 10:08:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven

Market share dropped, not the cause of the person in the factory.......but only they are suffering..why not have the CEO.CFO take a hit also?????? No NO white collar gets to keep their money and retirement package



Agreed.



FatDomDaddy -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/16/2012 10:08:34 AM)

You seem to forget,

The company was only forced to close when the 5,000 workers struck.

For some vishnu unknown reason, the Union apologist are acting like the loss of jobs is a victory for the union cause!!!

18,500 are out of work because a few Union Leaders wanted to make a statement.



FatDomDaddy -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/16/2012 10:10:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven

Market share dropped, not the cause of the person in the factory.......but only they are suffering..why not have the CEO.CFO take a hit also?????? No NO white collar gets to keep their money and retirement package


Agreed.



Once a company is in bankruptcy, doesn't the CBA rules change? What did the Baker's Union think they could get???



tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/16/2012 10:18:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

You seem to forget,

The company was only forced to close when the 5,000 workers struck.

For some vishnu unknown reason, the Union apologist are acting like the loss of jobs is a victory for the union cause!!!

18,500 are out of work because a few Union Leaders wanted to make a statement.


Because the union that was on strike had 5000 employees with Hostess.

The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union represents around 5,000 Hostess employees.

In September, membership of one of its major unions, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, voted narrowly to accept a new contract with reduced wages and benefits. The Bakers' union rejected the deal, however, prompting Hostess management to secure permission from a bankruptcy court to force a new concession contract on workers.

So much for the "Bad Teamsters" angle.

The Teamsters union, which represents 6,700 Hostess workers, issued a statement blaming mismanagement by Hostess executives for the company's problems. But it also was critical of the decision of Bakers' union, although it did not identify the union by name.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/companies/hostess-closing/



subspaceseven -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/16/2012 10:24:51 AM)

quote:


In September, membership of one of its major unions, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, voted narrowly to accept a new contract with reduced wages and benefits. The Bakers' union rejected the deal, however, prompting Hostess management to secure permission from a bankruptcy court to force a new concession contract on workers.


So it seems management wanted everything..once again...show me where management offered to take the same cuts to save the company-as they have asked the workers twice, while the workers had no say in the companies decisions how to market themselves..which the management did poorly...So free market till management loses money then blame it on the workers??????? and workers lose while management keeps all their money and retirement money but workers pensions gone, which the workers PAID into......all that money gone,.... to pay for management



JeffBC -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/16/2012 10:38:22 AM)

I often times find discussions like this incredibly interesting. So here I am in the land of BDSM where every D-type out there is so honorable that they have never lied, never cheated, never once mislead someone.

You're a D-type. So tell me...in your own personal dealings when you make a deal with someone do you honor it? Because as I read this story what's going on here is not brand new news. Basically some company made a deal for a certain compensation package. The company in question then failed to honor the terms of their deal and, in fact, did little or nothing at all to even attempt to honor the terms. Now that the devil's come to collect his due the company in question is complaining about their partner in the deal.. the workers... who in fact upheld their portion honorably. You think that's OK? As a society, it is your believe that honor doesn't matter if you're an executive? Is it simply do whatever the hell you want ignoring swathes of US law and then cry about "job loss"?

I gotta tell you that as a citizen I am not prepared to let "job loss" become the automatic get out of jail free card.

Man, you Republicans and your welfare state. I wish you'd just stop it. People ought to have to obey the law and actually be productive to earn a living. Not live on the government dole.



subspaceseven -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/16/2012 10:46:37 AM)

Have you not read any of willards speeches??? you would find the answer....



papassion -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/16/2012 10:50:35 AM)


Simple solution. Have the unions buy the company. The Unions can provide management at fair compensation, and since they are the owners, won't make stupid work rules that will cost THEM unecessary costs. Workers get their jobs back, everybody happy except the fired old management!



mnottertail -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/16/2012 10:57:59 AM)

A simpler solution, have the unions not buy the company.



papassion -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/16/2012 11:00:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


Simple solution. Have the unions buy the company. The Unions can provide management at fair compensation, and since they are the owners, won't make stupid work rules that will cost THEM unecessary costs. Workers get their jobs back, everybody happy except the fired old management!


And they could buy it at a fire sale price! How much is a bankrupt company worth?



subspaceseven -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/16/2012 11:03:53 AM)

Well...willard has made hundreds of millions off them, perhaps they should ask him



mnottertail -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/16/2012 11:04:33 AM)

Not an arms length transaction.   Pounding a very small pud on that one.



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