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RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 8:32:35 PM   
JMG05


Posts: 16
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Vermont should then be the model for universal healthcare for the country I would suspect.

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RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 8:33:59 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

But somehow, Vermont has thus far managed to get all stakeholders in agreement for a single-payer system in that state. It is scheduled to go online sometime after the full implementation of the ACA in 2014. And they will have to get a waiver from the Obama administration because they will not be following key provisions of the ACA--like the part that states employers must provide health care if they have 50+ employees. For the first time in this country, health care will be viewed as a right granted to everybody and not attached to one's job.





As long as their system is better than the federal requirements they wont need a waiver.

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RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 10:02:07 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JMG05

Vermont should then be the model for universal healthcare for the country I would suspect.



Just a crazy thought, but how we about we see how the prototype works, before we all rush in? Maybe see how 3 or 4 different prototypes work out, over a period of time long enough for inherent and structural problems to reveal themselves?



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RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 10:03:16 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		How about we dont. Im sure many people would prefer a better quality of life that waiting just isnt bringing them.

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RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 10:16:36 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

How about we dont. Im sure many people would prefer a better quality of life that waiting just isnt bringing them.


Got a Chevy Volt plugged in, out in your garage, do you Tazzy? Thanks, but speaking as one of the millions of Americans who likes my health care plan, I want to see something work for a little while, before I buy.



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RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 10:18:20 PM   
susie


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Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline 		I am in the UK and can get to see a GP in my practice the next day if I am happy to see one of the team. If I want to see my regular GP it is usually 2-3 days. Waiting times to see my Neurosurgeon or Oncologist is about 4 weeks but if there was a serious issue they would see me within the week.

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RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 10:32:52 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

How about we dont. Im sure many people would prefer a better quality of life that waiting just isnt bringing them.


Got a Chevy Volt plugged in, out in your garage, do you Tazzy? Thanks, but speaking as one of the millions of Americans who likes my health care plan, I want to see something work for a little while, before I buy.




And yours isnt changing yet, is it?

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 10:49:03 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Got a Chevy Volt plugged in, out in your garage, do you Tazzy? Thanks, but speaking as one of the millions of Americans who likes my health care plan, I want to see something work for a little while, before I buy.



See, Rich, there you go; thinking logically again.

I am hard-pressed to think of a worse answer to any situation than to follow a knee-jerk reaction.

I am happy that people seem to be praising the Vermont plan. It shows me that someone may have come up with an answer to one of the biggest problems facing us. It's encouraging.

I remember how encouraged our neighbors to the North were, when they first enacted their newest healthcare. It was the answer to everything; initially. I have friends that live in Canadia and the tales they tell of the medical system leave a little something to be desired.

I have only been to Canadia a handful of times. On one of my trips, I was in a restaurant/theater in Totonto. A man had a heart attack. Okay. Things happen. People in the restaurant did what they could. The ambulance came.

The EMTs (paramedics, whatever) were discussing where they were going to take him and words like "cardiac trauma unit" and "closest gate" were discussed but the one that chilled my blood was: "accepts all plans" when it was said in temporal proximity to "extra ten minutes".

Anyone that's had a heart attack can tell you: time is muscle and muscle is living. I don't know what happened to this guy but I can tell you I wouldn't have a very positive view of the Canadian health system if he wound up dying because a medical decision was based upon who would be willing to treat him.

Do we need healthcare reform in this country? Of course. We also need tort reform and reform to good samaritan laws to cover doctors to really get anywhere with improving health care here. At this point, everyone's getting fucked and the lawyers are the only ones making any money/coming away happy.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 11/17/2012 10:51:19 PM >

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RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 10:51:55 PM   
JMG05


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: JMG05

Vermont should then be the model for universal healthcare for the country I would suspect.



Just a crazy thought, but how we about we see how the prototype works, before we all rush in? Maybe see how 3 or 4 different prototypes work out, over a period of time long enough for inherent and structural problems to reveal themselves?



quote:

Got a Chevy Volt plugged in, out in your garage, do you Tazzy? Thanks, but speaking as one of the millions of Americans who likes my health care plan, I want to see something work for a little while, before I buy.



Well since we are the only country to my knowledge that has a for profit health care system I would think the rest of the world could be used as the prototypes and we can choose from the best.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 10:54:55 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And yours isnt changing yet, is it?



Well, that depends. I understand the lab may be changing here in the near future. Too many fuck-ups like the one that gave the wife and I a slightly freaky afternoon last week. It works out well. The medical group will fire the company they contract with, and bring in another. Not quite overnight, but I bet they'll have the transition made over a weekend. (That's one of the inherent problems I want to see good safeguards and solutions for, before I'll get on board for the nationalization required for a long-term universal health care plan in the US, btw)

Single payer healthcare, with the expectations of health care in a society like ours, is an invitation to fraud and abuse like nothing we've ever seen before.

This isn't only about making sure the poorest among us get access, Tazzy. It's about making sure the quality of service doesn't drop across the rest of the scale.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 11:03:35 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Single payer healthcare, with the expectations of health care in a society like ours, is an invitation to fraud and abuse like nothing we've ever seen before.

This isn't only about making sure the poorest among us get access, Tazzy. It's about making sure the quality of service doesn't drop across the rest of the scale.


It wont happen overnight. But it will happen. To the extent other countries have it? I wouldnt be so sure that other countries have eliminated private insurance all together. Aswad's hasnt. Even Canada has private insurance. So I think you will be safe.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/17/2012 11:04:36 PM >

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RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 11:11:07 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JMG05

Well since we are the only country to my knowledge that has a for profit health care system I would think the rest of the world could be used as the prototypes and we can choose from the best.

there is for profit, meaning a reasonable sane profit.. and then there is for profit that is out-and-out gouging and ridiculous.. (see JeffBCs post) When the cost of an operation in the US is at least twice (or considerably more) the cost of Canada.. how well is taking that Canadian model (for instance) and transplanting it in the US gonna work? You have 2 totally different govt mentalities at work.. you have huge insurance companies that have run the US health care system for decades.. do you think they are going to simply step aside meekly??? No, they are trying to figure out how to make even more money.. In Canada, the govt decides what a reasonable fee is for each medical procedure/situation (insurance companies dont have as many areas they can operate in Canada, health care and in some provinces auto insurance is operated by govt), not the hospitals or doctors or insurance companies like goes on in the US.. so you simply can not take a reasonable system and expect it to work in the insanely greedy system the US has... it wont work, and certainly not cheaply..

and to take another country's system as your own is just plain.. un-American!..

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RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 11:18:35 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Imagine how many people can be treated if these werent given out....

http://www.theindustryradar.com/index.cfm?account=radar&page=Healthplan_Executive_Compensation

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 11:25:53 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		another difference between Canada's health care system and the US system is that in Canada, people can sue for malpractice and all that but the govt in Canada that has a cap on how high that goes, so its never the huge mind boggling awards that some people get in the US system.. i think Florida has caps too but sue in the right state and its like winning the lotto.. Lets face it, when people are suing McDs cuz their coffee was too hot, well.. there are some serious problems with how things work..

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 11:27:42 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		People sue for so much, in part, because they will have future medical bills that no one would want to cover. Universal coverage would get rid of that aspect.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 11:35:44 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JMG05

Well since we are the only country to my knowledge that has a for profit health care system I would think the rest of the world could be used as the prototypes and we can choose from the best.



Shame that didn't occur to this administration, when our's got written huh? (Maybe we could save money in the ER's by having dogs lick the wounds, instead of using expensive antiseptics, the way the Soviets came up with?)

We need something that will be palatable to the expectations of Americans who don't have nothing now, and aren't automatically going to kiss the toes of anybody who gives them anything. Single-payer sounds like the solution that is just too good to be true, because it is. It would probably all go along nicely for a while to start with, and not hit the totally fucked stage until around the time we start seriously needing it.

Show me a plan that avoids the inherent flaws of a nationalized system, and I'm ready to sit down on the details. I think we could go a very long way by providing a national network of free neighborhood clinics and urgent cares. The military provides pretty well, in their system, as long as people are willing to move in formation for shots. We do have our own models to work with.




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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 11:36:45 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		then if awards do majorly drop (& quite frankly, I will believe that when i see it), then the cost for malpractice insurance should drop like a stone too.. I posted once before comparing the cost of malpractice insurance for a Canadian doc vs a US doc, the US doc is charged something like 10 times as much/year.. I somehow doubt those greedy insurance companies will be charging the US docs a dime less once universal coverage kicks in even if the awards do drop considerably..

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 11:43:02 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		On their own, no, I dont believe insurance companies will ever drop a dime, unless its in competition. And, yes, they do drive the prices of many parts of health care.

But, consider the drop in medical awards... and yes, I believe they would drop simply because people cannot use the "It will cost me at least a gazillion dollars to treat this for the rest of my life" argument (most accidents are only covered for a few years, then the claim is dropped).

Couple that with the lack of need for workman's compensation... a huge drain on businesses (insurance they pay for) .. which would also be covered under Universal health care.

Drop the monetary costs of health care from things like auto insurance policies.. what would be the need if people are covered universally? and yet another insurance company hand dug in deep.

Then start ticking off the costs from collection agencies that health care insitutions utilize to recover money....

The savings do start to add up.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 11:50:47 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

People sue for so much, in part, because they will have future medical bills that no one would want to cover. Universal coverage would get rid of that aspect.



Those aren't the lawsuits we have to worry about, Tazzy. It's the ones where people sue for their right to all heroic measures in the last months of life, and what impact those rulings have on the system. I just heard a number of $12,500 a day for ICU, at the moment. It does get expensive.

Were you on the thread about the inmate who got the state prison system ordered to provide his sex change surgery?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Medical wait times by country - 11/17/2012 11:57:30 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Nope. But its something I disagree with.

quote:

I just heard a number of $12,500 a day for ICU, at the moment.


I can believe that. So why arent we, as a nation, treating a disease that might cost 60 dollars a month to treat instead of 12,500 a day to deal with the results of?

quote:

It's the ones where people sue for their right to all heroic measures in the last months of life, and what impact those rulings have on the system.


Heroic measures are typically something given to someone because someone else sued. Like the daughter or son who cant let go. Advanced directives, which many called the Death Panels, are truly needed.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 40
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