RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (Full Version)

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GoddessInanna -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 9:49:09 AM)

On same sex marriage a lot of people are not against civil unions they are against the destruction of religious freedom as marriage is a religious ceremony and place that make not civil unions but marriage legal then Churches will be forced to marry same sex couples or lose their tax exempt status and being recognized as an organized religion. This infringes on the religious rights of people and churches forcing them to recognize same sex marriage. That is what it comes down to. Of course the gay community isn't happy to have civil unions they have to call it marriage and they want to force the Churches to recognize them despite that it is against biblical law, and clearly written as well. " No man shall lay with another man as he does a woman" it constitutions as sexual immorality which is punishable by death. I think the gay community should except civil unions and not try to force religion to except them and recognize them. That is destroying their freedoms.



mnottertail -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 9:50:57 AM)

I do not see how it is logical to equate Communism with National Socialism.  Nor do I see why people keep pretending like it is and grafting capitalism onto a political system.

It has given us a military-industrial complex, foisted off on us like it is a  political thought.




GoddessInanna -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 9:52:10 AM)

quote:

Fürchte Dich nicht vor dem Vorwärtsgehen, fürchte Dich nur vor dem Stehen bleiben.“ Asiatische Weisheit


Its been proven that places with lax gun laws have less gun crime and crime in general.



GoddessInanna -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 9:55:37 AM)

In greece despite it destroying the economy and bankrupting the country.

Germany has always been very nationalist and even more so as a national movement is gaining a lot of ground. They will bankrupt themselves supporting the other countries and would be better off alone You are right the water down of the European cultures is resented and should be as I see it. I personal would love to see Germany be what it does best a strong independent nationalistic nation.



kdsub -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 9:58:54 AM)

quote:

Fair points Butch, but maybe thats due to the wide ranging view of right wing Americans on here


I certainly am not advocating or criticizing any view Politesub only pointing out the range of views in America compared to Europeans and Canadians posting here on CM.

Otherwise I am wondering if Americans are not more honest in their views considering our diversity of views are evidently not so far off the common views of Europeans.

Butch



GoddessInanna -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:02:35 AM)

I never seen the Right in the US make an issue of race such as the left did in this last election. If so Romney would of played up being Cuban and would of been the first latin American president. Instead they kept his race out of it. the Democrats used races and division of the races and race separation playing on class war far to win an election for a guy whose administration is destroying the country economically. having tippled the national debt in 4 years. helped destroy the mortgage companies with his ACORN project. The Stock Market crashed down the day after and 27 states have petitions approved for succession not to mention the blatant redistribution of the wealth policies to destroy "class gaps" moving everyone into a governmental controlled communistic states as that is all those policies lead to. You can ask anyone who ever came from the communist country and they are scared. There is a reason Cubans vote Conservative.



GoddessInanna -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:04:02 AM)

Europe does have to be careful what they express regarding views. Some can land them in prison if they are too obviously Nationalistic and Social.



mnottertail -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:05:59 AM)

Uff Da.   You don't know much in the way of facts regarding america, and the political scene, having nothing on it, I am surprised that you would comment.  

I uh, always pointed out that Willard Romney-Rodriguez was actually a Mexican, (and it would be Rubio -- Mark Rubio that is the cuban, but he didnt and couldnt run)




Hillwilliam -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:07:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessInanna

I never seen the Right in the US make an issue of race such as the left did in this last election. If so Romney would of played up being Cuban and would of been the first latin American president.

Really?
As for your comment about him being Cuban. His dad was born in a Mormon colony in Mexico. Please buy a map OK?
Did you have him confused with Rubio who should have been the VP candidate?

[image]local://upfiles/664494/5D273206F52B44E78CDEACB8E6AA5FF4.jpg[/image]



fucktoyprincess -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:08:54 AM)

FR

I see huge value in trying to parse out economic, political and cultural values within countries, because each country has its own mix going on. And when we bandy about terms like "liberal", "conservative", "left", "right", "communist", "national socialist", etc. we are not necessarily describing the detailed aspects of a country's economic, political and cultural values.

A country can be economically conservative, and culturally liberal, or vice versa. A country can be extremely liberal on some cultural issues, but extremely conservative on others.

I think it would behoove all of us, of whatever stripes, to try to actually look at each country individually, and ascertain where that particular country is with respects to various issues, then trying to lump countries together based on inaccurate understandings, or simply trying to place one label on a country that can't possibly capture the various approaches, policies and attitudes of a people.

In the BDSM world we often complain about the use of labels, although they can provide useful shorthand when everyone has the same understanding. I would say the same about countries. The labels we like to use don't always capture the reality. We should all be careful not to let the labels define a country. [sm=2cents.gif]



GoddessInanna -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:09:32 AM)

Communism is nothing like National Socialism but since the surge in communistic policies their is a reaction of the national socialist parties, though under different names gaining ground and power, especially in countries that were once under communism. Did you see the big soccer or foot ball game were pretty much the whole stadium did the National Socialist Salute? People are resenting the watering down of their culture, the mass immigration of people who don't embrace their culture but want the countries to cater to the immigrants culture and language not to mention the social policies. This is spurning a strong resentment and taking people back to National Socialism, especially in countries that lived in communism as National Socialism was never demonized in the places that were forced to live under Stalinist. The Nationals were the heros trying to liberate them in which many countries still honor those who fought.



Hillwilliam -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:10:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessInanna

On same sex marriage a lot of people are not against civil unions they are against the destruction of religious freedom as marriage is a religious ceremony

False statement.

Marriage is not a religious ceremony. Otherwise, Aetheists would not be allowed to marry.[8|]
In some states, a Marriage can even be performed by a Notary Public.

It would actually be destruction of Religious freedom is marriage was defined as a religious ceremony as "Freedom of Religion" also means freedom to not be forced to practice one.



GoddessInanna -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:10:58 AM)

I was pretty sure at the Republican convention they said he immigrated from Cuba but I could be wrong and it was Mexico. Either way the point is the same. They would of played up the race card as the first Latin president but did not as they didn't want the election about Race unlike the democrats



mnottertail -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:12:07 AM)

The racism schtick was from the right, nowhere else.



GoddessInanna -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:12:36 AM)

It was once a religious ceremony. The government up until 100 years ago had no dealings with marriage. It is no longer restricted to a religious ceremony but when they legalize gay marriage rather than unions they do infringe on the rights of the Church by forcing the Churches to marry gays.



mnottertail -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:15:47 AM)

you will see that most gays (unless there is a particularly enlightend preacher) go to the courthouse to get it done, nobody is forcing these child molesting priests to marry anyone.



Hillwilliam -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:15:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessInanna

I was pretty sure at the Republican convention they said he immigrated from Cuba but I could be wrong and it was Mexico. Either way the point is the same. They would of played up the race card as the first Latin president but did not as they didn't want the election about Race unlike the democrats

He didn't immigrate from anywhere. He was born in Michigan. His father did. An ancestor fled the US to escape persecution for polygamy. They did, however maintain American citizenship. That is how his father was able to run for POTUS back in 68 even though he was foreign born.
As for your other point, you seem to be mistaking race for nationality.



GoddessInanna -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:16:01 AM)

Ok Rommey's father was from Mexico the Vice President was Cuba. Still makes the point the same though. I just got the two confused.



Aswad -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:17:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

even 49 percent of Swedes want the return of CP. At least according to Rasmusen’s polls.


Do you have a link for that?

In Norway, one month after the Utøya attacks, we were at 16% in favor, 16% undecided and 68% opposed, as regards capital punishment. Realize that I'm not saying it can't be the case that your figures are correct, only that it strikes me as unlikely, as sentiments tend to be relatively uniform across Scandinavian countries, with Denmark more liberal and laidback than Norway and Sweden more conservative; usually, there is broad agreement on the major issues.

There's also this general idea here that even if there were a majority in favor, it's such a big decision that considering it would require an overwhelming majority to change the current policy. That sort of thing goes for a lot of different issues, really.

quote:

Same sex marriage polls I could find show European Union is around 53 percent for. Americans are 54 percent in favor…not 10 percent.


Compare this with 63% in favor in Norway (2012), for marriage, while civil union is almost universally supported (even the Christian Conservative Party voted in favor of that one). Note that the rest are, for the most part, undecided, not against. Heck, even polyamorous group marriages have been raised, but tabled for the time being. The arguments in the latter case being (a) not creating a problem with polygamous immigrants and women's rights, and (b) the tax code would need a huge rewrite that would cost a fuckton to implement in the tax software.

ETA: I should point out that gay marriage, not just civil union, is legal here.

At this point, you should bear in mind that we're a rural country by comparison. The capital city has a tenth the population density of NYC, and that's probably the only place that would qualify as a city in US terms, the rest of our "cities" being more like suburbs, and most living in places that make the South seem overpopulated. I don't know what it's like over there, but rural areas are more conservative here and put a big dent in such statistics.

quote:

I could go on with each major issue in the news and surprisingly people of the western world are far closer in their views then posters here on CM would have us believe.


Well, of course. The oddballs are more vocal in the US, it seems, and given more screen time.

Yet it does seem your politics are lagging behind your polls, doesn't it?

IWYW,
— Aswad.



Hillwilliam -> RE: The struggle between the Left and Right in Europe (11/19/2012 10:19:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessInanna

It was once a religious ceremony. The government up until 100 years ago had no dealings with marriage. It is no longer restricted to a religious ceremony but when they legalize gay marriage rather than unions they do infringe on the rights of the Church by forcing the Churches to marry gays.

It was once a religious ceremony for SOME people.
Noone forces any church to marry gays. Please show some evidence that has occurred.

Seriously, before you come to the basement to play with the mean people, you might just want to get a fact straight occasionally. People are being nice so far because you're a noob.



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