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RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 11:25:23 AM

LaTigresse

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FR

To ME.........it is a case of, if you have to say it about yourself, I am going to question the validity of it.

Also, to ME.........hanging the word mentor on it, is just kind of self-aggrandizing.

Certainly there are things, not really BDSM, but other things like relationships, that I feel I can give SOME people SOME advice, based upon my own life experiences. There are other skills, I've gained over the years, that I feel I could teach others. If nothing else, people can learn from my fuckups.

But for ME, it's not for me to say who, or even what, I can teach. I would much rather someone take the time to actually know me, know that I know what I am doing in any given area, and based upon that, ask me. "Hey, can you show me how to do xxx." or "Hey, I would like your opinion/advice. Can we talk?"

Odds have it, it might even be a situation where, as much as I might know about any given thing, I also might know someone that knows a helluva lot more than I do and the best thing I can do is refer them.

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Post #: 21

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 11:32:03 AM

cordeliasub

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quote:

I interpreted your statement to mean, "the 'good' dominants won't touch 'mentoring' because it's so tainted by the 'sex mentors'".

Ah, yes, I can definitely see why it sounded that way.

I think I just meant....I have talked with a few Dominants who have become friends, and though they are very knowledgeable, they don't go around declaring it or looking for people to "mentor." Just getting to know them and being around them is a learning experience, and because friendship develops, they can be very frank with me, and I feel comfortable enough with them to be open. Sometimes it is the people who are just being who they are and doing what they do who make the best "mentors" without even realizing it.

Not sure if that is any clearer. I have a friend who is great with kids and just knows how to explain things to them in a way that they just "get." I have told him more than once that he would make an awesome teacher because it is just so natural. I think some Dominants are like that as well.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 22

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 12:51:53 PM

JeffBC

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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub
I think I just meant....I have talked with a few Dominants who have become friends, and though they are very knowledgeable, they don't go around declaring it or looking for people to "mentor." Just getting to know them and being around them is a learning experience, and because friendship develops, they can be very frank with me, and I feel comfortable enough with them to be open. Sometimes it is the people who are just being who they are and doing what they do who make the best "mentors" without even realizing it.

Yup, that was a ton clearer and I totally agree. In fact I'd say that is always how it is with "mentors" (as opposed to teachers).

Michael wasn't looking to "mentor" me when we met. I was just some guy new to all this and obviously desperately in need of some contact with the real world as opposed to the internet. So he came on over and we had coffee. I don't know that he tried to "teach" me anything exactly. He did try to answer my questions and help get my head out of my ass when it'd gotten inserted too deeply. I think the difference is that he wasn't looking for either sex or status by helping me out. He was simply looking to help me out.

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Post #: 23

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 1:00:40 PM

Darkfeather

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For me, I have never considered myself a mentor. Every time the situation came up, it was simply me giving out advice, pointers, tips, etc. to the person asking. When they got what they needed from me, they moved on. Can people abuse that in a society such as kink, sure. Mentor-ship can place a lot of influence/power into the teacher's hands. I think for the most part though, anyone trying to do this get discovered easily enough.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 24

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/21/2012 12:33:03 PM

Nelee

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This might be a little off topic, but I love this thread and the discussion that is going on. It's great. This place is awesome.

Personally, I like the idea of mentors, but not having a single go-to all the time mentor. Much like others have already said, getting multiple opinions and going to people for help (rather than searching for a mentor) are better opinions. Honestly, I wish I had a mentor when I was first getting started. Would have saved me a lot of grief from "doms" that I ran into, but knew nothing about.

(in reply to Darkfeather)

Post #: 25

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/21/2012 12:46:18 PM

JeffBC

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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nelee
Personally, I like the idea of mentors, but not having a single go-to all the time mentor.

Personally I think one of the tip-off's of a real, credible mentor is that the person is going to very quickly expose you to other mentors with other viewpoints. For me personally, I get it that the BDSM world is vast and the corner I inhabit of it is tiny. So I try immediately to expose people to a wide swath of stuff... fetishists, hardcore lifestyle people, leather, gorean, whatever. I do my best to express these things objectively and at a high level. If interest is expressed in some area I try to find an expert in that area. My goal is not to turn the "student" into a clone of me. My goal is to help them find their path.

Basically, the line "You should listen only to me" ought to be a huge, neon, red flag -- it's a control move not an education move. Although that gets me back to my original point. I'm unclear whether most of these alleged students want to learn any more than the alleged mentors want to teach. Personally I think they are both using each other to get their rocks off which I personally find perfectly OK.

_____________________________

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"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Post #: 26

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/21/2012 2:22:26 PM

Kana

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I don't wanna put forth that much effort and that much of self w/o getting some pootie. It's just that simple.
And yeah, I'm a selfish fuck. No need to mention it-I'm already highly aware of the fact

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Post #: 27

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/21/2012 10:29:28 PM

littlewonder

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I never understood mentors. There are some people in the world who I admire and respect. If I have a problem or need advice, I just talk to them and take their advice because of my respect for them. Doesn't everyone do that?

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Post #: 28

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/21/2012 10:48:23 PM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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FR:

I've been a mentor in various aspects of my life. When my son (who is LD) was in grammar school, I was a mentor for other parents with LD children to help them negotiate the Chgo public school system.

I've been a mentor in business (primarily marketing), as well as in BDSM.

Like pretty much everything else, some 'get' the mentoring thing and are good at it; some make good choices in picking a mentor, which is crucial to success.

Having said that, I agree that many volunteer to be a mentor who are not qualified. Many pick mentors for the wrong reasons. Some use being a mentor to get sex a/o power over another. I'm not sure that having the focus be on BDSM makes any of the above statements any different.

Although I've been a mentor in the past, it's very time consuming, so frankly I'm not looking to do it again. If the 'right' person asked, I might agree for a limited time period.

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Post #: 29

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/22/2012 12:10:42 AM

MissImmortalPain

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I agree with your first point but actually like mentoring because of your second point. I have been a teacher of many different things and the first thing I always tell the other person is "Question everything, even me" In every area we all still have things to learn and we should learn them from as many different places as we can. It helps in the end when it comes to our deciding what is right, or wrong, for us as individuals.

*side note* I also agree that sex really should not be part of mentoring. I have had it offered more than a few times and always think the same thing. That having sex with someone you are trying to mentor is like sticking your fingers in a bowl when you make candy for a living. It is a good way to end up in a diabetic coma.

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Post #: 30

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/23/2012 7:32:52 AM

wandersalone

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I am incredibly thankful as when I first entered the bdsm scene, started going to events etc, I became very good friends with a group of about 8 people, some were couples, some singles, and a mix of roles, kinks, specialities etc.

I would go out to events and watch a scene and quietly ask questions of whichever of my friends was most knowledgeable in this area and the best part - none of them ever tired of me asking questions. Looking back on this many years later, I would consider that they were mentors, they looked out for me at the first few events I went to and were always on the end of the phone or happy to meet and talk through any questions I had. Hell, I still do this as there is always something new to learn or one more question that I have.

I am currently learning DSLR photography. I meet with a friend once a week for coffee and we talk about life, he answers any questions I have and will tell me a bit more about settings, different lenses etc and then we set out to do a couple of hours of shooting. He even has lent me one of his spare cameras as he has a number of them.

He sets me challenges, often to confront me as well as to help me aquire a new skill or learn the difference between aperture settings etc. He is a kinkster and the poor man cringes when he takes photos of me using the camera I use and thus I edit them (very badly) and put them up with the attribution to him on fet. But in my defence, I do add a disclaimer that the crap editing is by me ha ha. He tells me about other photographers whom I can learn from and those to avoid ie. those who want something in return, and he encourages me to talk with others.

The point of my story. This man doesn't see himself as my mentor or even want to be called it. He doesn't speak on fet about how he has taken me under his wing or all of the things he has taught me in just a couple of months. Instead he tells me that he enjoys spending time with someone who is so passionate and enthusiastic and who is like a sponge, wanting to learn as much as possible but who also takes notes and practises. He says it reminds him of what he was like before he became a professional photographer.

There are plenty of wonderful mentors out there, they simply don't see themselves as such.

And yes Michael, I agreed with the points you brought up in your OP

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Post #: 31

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/23/2012 9:20:14 AM

chatterbox24

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Can't a mentor be for mental or sexual play?

If its for the proper headspace and education, and thats all it is suppose to be then it would be like the sex education teacher having sex with the student. They are only supplying knowledge to a novice. Having sex isnt part of it or should be.
Should a play mentor also just educate, and is it advised to have sex with their student? I think it remains the same for me.

Neither is necessary for the education. IMO a mentor only educates. Then the education is acted out with students chosen partner later. Just my take on what I think in my mind.

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Post #: 32

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/23/2012 9:53:07 AM

Kerjin

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From: Seattle, WA
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I have been in a mentoring role several times. Once to another male dominant who came up to me at a party and started asking questions. WE talked a lot that night and soon started meeting for coffee and at events. He was a sponge and absorbed everything I said as if he was starving. I introduced him to several other Dom's that I knew, all of who I also respected as well. He was a rare case in that he did not jump into the scene as if he had all the answers but rather found someone he wanted to ask questions of. I later found out that I was the 4th person he had spoken to, the other three were all flakes. (lol)

Normally I end up mentoring submissives, just trying to answer their questions with no pressures or expectations. I didn't want to be known as a mentor, I just merely wanted to help them find themselves and so so safely. I believe that mentoring is a role very akin to a teacher. You share your knowledge, you allow your student to grow, to question and to find other sources of information. You provide gentle guidance and share knowledge and allow them to come to their own conclusions.

But that's just my thoughts, YMMV.

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Post #: 33

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/23/2012 10:34:18 AM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

I'm assuming this is one of those bdsm community
type of things... I couldn't see myself ever wanting
to be taken under someone's wing, not only would I
not respect a persons credentials to assume that
role without first knowing them for a long time, but
I don't look for advice and guidance anyway...
I'll ask my peers occasionally for opinions, sometimes
I get it without asking or wanting them haha, but
they are only opinions... points of view from people
that I have a degree of respect for, those opinions are
a factor in my evaluation and self guidance process.

If it isn't only a BDSM community thing... What
exactly would a D/s mentor even do?

-Aries

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530 DAYS

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Post #: 34

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/23/2012 10:46:31 AM

RemoteUser

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

If it isn't only a BDSM community thing... What
exactly would a D/s mentor even do?

-Aries

You more or less already have the gist; advice, opinions, suggestions, coupled with practical knowledge.

A mentor can help you figure out what you want and how to do it - i.e.

"What is fire play?"
"I have a sadistic streak; how painful is fire play?"
"How would I perform fire play safely?"
"Is there anywhere I could go to see a live demonstration of fire play?"

That kind of thing.

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Post #: 35

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/23/2012 3:05:30 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

I'm assuming this is one of those bdsm community
type of things... I couldn't see myself ever wanting
to be taken under someone's wing, not only would I
not respect a persons credentials to assume that
role without first knowing them for a long time, but
I don't look for advice and guidance anyway...
I'll ask my peers occasionally for opinions, sometimes
I get it without asking or wanting them haha, but
they are only opinions... points of view from people
that I have a degree of respect for, those opinions are
a factor in my evaluation and self guidance process.

If it isn't only a BDSM community thing... What
exactly would a D/s mentor even do?

-Aries

For a guy who answers people's questions on a forum, that seems a pretty stupid question

(in reply to ARIES83)

Post #: 36

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/23/2012 4:53:01 PM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

RU,
Thats bdsm stuff though...

SM,
Every time I can remember replying to anyone
asking how to be a dom, I think my answer has
always been along the lines of...
"you have to decide what you want, figure out
how to get it, and find the will to achieve it."
The only person who can make you be that
person is you, and as far as I'm concerned...
Those are really the core values.
Yes theres an experience factor but the actual
"experiencing" of the experiences is what makes
the person.

Taking bdsm and playing with toys/scenes out
of it, if there is some kind of Dom mentorship
how is it anything other than playing at guru...

I don't consider what I do on here mentoring...
there is a whole spectrum of experiences and
experience levels on here, but we are really only
just shooting the breeze... like any conversation
amounst peers, by participating or even listening
you pick up some things, maybe impart some.
You can find out about things you haven't
experienced or relate your own, but anyone here
that thinks they are mentoring people may need
to take a reality check...

In bdsm communities like leather (sorry LP don't
really know any leather stuff but I'm assuming it's
a mentory kinda deal...?) or other things with
protocols, or scene playing, or dangerous activities.
I could see a place for mentoring... But I'll ask again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

If it isn't only a BDSM community thing... What
exactly would a D/s mentor even do?

or is it a bdsm only thing? Because the thought of a
guru placing a guiding hand on my blossoming
domlyness is Furrnneeeyyy!

-Aries

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Post #: 37

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/23/2012 5:15:44 PM

RemoteUser

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There is a difference, Aries, though having these boards around makes it maybe more difficult to distinguish. When I was mentoring the internet had only advanced to telnet. No boards, there, at least nothing like these!

Think of it this way. A brand new sub wants to learn more about, say, bondage. They know about rope and they might think of handcuffs, and if they did astute research they'll know about shibari and may even branch off to chains, breath play, and so on. But let's say all they know is being tied up by rope. In addition to discussing knots and providing links for images, videos (non porn!!), safety issues/allergies, sensations/chafing, and alternatives (going from chairs to, say, that old rugged cross, suspension, and so on) you can help that sub by finding events, munches, demonstrations.

What you're doing there isn't play, not even close, but you're giving them a wealth of information from which they can get practical experience and better understand bondage, as well as how involved they want to get with it.

In this sense you, the Dominant, are mentoring the submissive through information and advice that will improve them as a submissive (and perhaps as a person along the way), but you are satisfying their need, not the other way around.

Now, if you told them what to do, who to do it with, when, and it suited your interests as opposed to theirs, it wouldn't be mentoring but a whole nuther thing.

Hope that's a bit clearer. I'm a little tired today, so with any luck that was straightforward and comprehensive.

< Message edited by RemoteUser -- 11/23/2012 5:16:29 PM >

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There is nothing worse than being right. Instead of being right, then, try to be open. It is more difficult, and more rewarding.

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Post #: 38

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/23/2012 5:20:56 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

I don't consider what I do on here mentoring...
there is a whole spectrum of experiences and
experience levels on here, but we are really only
just shooting the breeze... like any conversation
amounst peers, by participating or even listening
you pick up some things, maybe impart some.
You can find out about things you haven't
experienced or relate your own

What you just described IS mentoring, and what we do here is often give questioners answers, and whai MOST relush about CM is those responses so often HOLD A PERSON ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR OUTCOMES. On fet and in real life the tone tends to be less accountability.

quote:

anyone here that thinks they are mentoring people may need to take a reality check...

You are quite wrong on that account. I am sure I am not alone in this but I get emails from people on fet who used to read my posts here (i stopped posting here for a few years) just to tell me how influential my posts were. There are posters here who have affected me deeply as well.

(in reply to ARIES83)

Post #: 39

RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/23/2012 5:48:11 PM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

My definition would be something like a sustained
period of time where you assume a instructional
position in there life/work with the general theme
being you guide, support and encourage them in
their growth process, by developing a relationship
in which you challange, introduce and inform until
such time as they can "stand on their own" in
whatever regard your mentoring them in...

Influencing someone by writing a post isn't
mentoring imo...
Answering a question isn't mentoring either...

RU,
That stuff is still bdsm mate, I was more wondering
about D/s mentoring as in how to be a sub or how
or be a dom, or how to dom a sub haha.

SM,
I seem to remember you saying you ran a Dom
class or something? Was it you I'm thinking of?

If so what do you teach.

-Aries

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Post #: 40

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