RE: Why online isn't (Full Version)

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trippingdaisy -> RE: Why online isn't (6/19/2006 9:17:04 AM)

(Fast reply.)

i do not understand.

There are several people who have expressed their opinions, and made it clear that it was an opinion. Rightly so. Thank you to those people.

There are also people who have stated that this is, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that online play is just silly and less real. No opinion, just an 'I'm right, you're wrong, no matter what' mentality.

i find it very hard to comprehend that people who are supposed to be open minded, can be so closed minded to something they don't understand.

i don't fully understand online D/s either. That doesn't mean that the next person doesn't enjoy it. i agree that, for me, it wouldn't ever be the same. But i'm also not going to continue to harp on a subject when my opinion is not the only one out there.

What ever happened to respecting other people's preferences?



OedipusRexIt -> RE: Why online isn't (6/19/2006 10:06:26 AM)

In reply to Tripping Daisy:

Thank you for reminding us all of the importance of mutual respect.

I do not understand the fascination with online, however I think if it works for someone, good for them.



Lucius -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 12:28:43 PM)

Some things bear repeating.
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie
Yes, certainly, many delude themselves about their online relationships, but then...they do that just as well r/t, don't they?

So I repeated feastie.

Lucius Alexander

And a redundant palindromedary



Devilslilsister -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 4:42:47 PM)

i swear, i am NOT reading 7 pages.  The difference i noticed about online/life BDSM is that i couldnt put my "online" knowledge into practice in life.  i spent from 17 to 23 (i think it was) spending most of it online.  Granted i went to a few clubs, met a few Doms, ect.  But everything i had learned about BDSM was from online.  Online sites, talking to ppl ect.  Trying to put it all into "life" and the application of it in "life' well, my socks were knocked off. 

i think it is TWO totally seperate entities and one doesnt really give you a good idea of the other.  Its like thinking about kneeling, or kneeling online/with a cam/over the phone....... is completely different then doing it with a person face to face.  I never read anything either, or experienced anything online that said "you will feel a bombardment of emotions" when you kneel for the first time face to face (or crawl or be whipped) ect.

i'm not putting anything down.  i just think they're both different

edited to add - and i'm right.  ::smiles::  They ARE two totally different things.  Kind of like slices of cheese and shredded cheese....... its all cheese.... but two seperate things.  You cant really put some one down for liking their cheese sliced (or shredded) and you have no merit saying one is better then the other.  HELL its CHEESE.  Two seperate things and each has their own positive attributes



Devilslilsister -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 4:48:42 PM)

sorry - one more thing.

Would you all feel like a twit if your words were translated into "you dont really like cheese or have any clue about cheese because you only eat shredded cheese!  The only REAL cheese is in BLOCK cheese.  If its not in block cheese...... its not cheese"

It is all cheese........ just different types.  Different flavors.....  and i agree eating block cheese is a completely different thing then eating shredded cheese........ but it is all cheese



Rayne58 -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 5:23:33 PM)

*fast reply*

I haven't read the whole thread, but here's my opinion:

Master and I met online, we were friends first then things changed in my life and it became something more. He was in Sydney and I lived in New Zealand, a 3 hour flight away.

I knew nothing about BDSM but I'd always had submissive tendencies. He sent me links to websites and I found others on my own and I read everything I could. We developed our relationship online but we didn't do any online scening apart from a couple of times on the phone for me to get a "feel" for obeying Master[:)] He prefers a "hands on" approach and finds online domination does nothing for Him.

When we finally met in r/t I discovered that obeying Master online and doing the real thing were two totally different things - r/t was much better![:D]

I can understand conducting a relationship online if eventually it is going to lead to real life interaction (and maybe relocation) but don't understand the appeal of just being online, with no plans to ever meet in person. It just seems that the whole thing is then an elaborate fantasy roleplay[8|]



KATRA -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 5:23:50 PM)

Hi this is my first post here so, hi yall ,i am going to be brave here and hope i don't get ripped to shreds.you guys can be tough and i can be over sensitive

.
first a little background;
I grew up sheltered with the impression there was something wrong with me for my thoughts desires and wants and needs and fantasy's. I didn't know i wasn't he only person int he world with these feeling and though i was broke.I had never heard of bdsm but had heard often about battered wifes ect , they are sick they stay because they enjoy it ect. is i though ti was either sick or broke to want to be controlled and be some ones slave.the very though or telling some one about my feelings was out of the question.and in my community still is.

15 years ago i found the gor books.tried to suppress my needs and wants for another 5 years.then i got internet.the first thing i found was on line gor rp chat rooms.i was in heaven for a while.wow who knew.of coarse while i was there i repeatedly heard your not real gor your a player. answering back there is no real gor and aren't we all playing?(( and we were it was role play !!))wasn't apparently the right answer. so i moved on to other adult role play rooms and began hearing about this bdsm thing.

i discovered that i was a slave at heart that there were other people like me. so i spent a lot of time researching bdsm  and the the lifestyle. discovered that if there were one word i could use to effectively describe the whole thing it would be diversity.if i could use a sentence it would be acceptance of diversity(( this from reading about bdsm  and the lifestyle on line not from actually meeting people))I was thrilled.at this time my on line r/p master drug me back to gor.we did this for about a year before the r/p no longer met the need we both felt.neither of us had a any experience, we just fell into what felt right and the relationship turned into and 8 year on line/real time real time relationship that grew and matured over the years.

i have been an on line slave for 9 years now, 8 of those years have been with the same Master we have never physically met but do use the tools available to us, voice , camera ect.we dint pretend. I know there are alto of pretenders liars and cheats out there.I have met quite a few and had some bad experiences.after 8 years i know him better than i know my teenage son.we have spend hours talking, emailing and on cam.Some one said there is no body language so you dint really have any clues.I disagree,after you talk to a person for so long you begin to develop a sense about them. you know when they are happy sad distracted upset angry  just by the way they write their words.it takes longer but it is there.


I am sorry for all of those who had bad experiences but
to me my on line relationship is not only real it is more fulfilling than any r/t relation ship i have ever had.even the sex ix better(( keep in mind i already know i am not normal and have been broken all my life ))my submission is very real and so is his acceptance of it.It is very real.i realize that a relationship like we have is not that common and is very special.But it is not because it is an on line relationship.it is because we the two honest  people that we are met by accident (( neither of us were looking for a relationship))we had the certain chemistry and connection.that is a rare thing.r/t or v/t.


one of the problems with on line relationship is people think that after two emails you know if your compatible.that tis like saying well i called you twice submit to  me fully Adrianna!!!what do you mean your name is Ariana?You have lied to me bitch we're through!!!!sounds stupid but you would be surprised a though many people expect just that.i recently was told since it is on line i should have no limits, i explained every one has limits. and if i wouldn't do something off line i wasn't going to do it on line.this didn't sit well. too many times people thing on line is pretend. when i submitted to my master i submitted to him real time not in some role play room.i dint sit around making pretend drinks and posting pretend chores.unfortunately i dint get pretend punishments either.I do real chores receive real punishments, am guided to improve myself and taught how to please him,i submitted my will to him. in doing so i became honor bound to obey him and please him.isn't it real time slave/subs honor that keeps them there with you bound to their word?

aren't there real time players out there who lie and cheat then bail out  when the going get tough? or when you take to another level past all the fun fluffy stuff.what ?!!! ME CLEAN THE TOILET?I THINK NOT YOU MAY PUNISH ME WITH YOUR TONGUE BETWEEN MY Legs AND LICK ME BACK INTO Submission.

but isn't submitting your Will to another and placing yourself in the care of another a  power exchange?isn't that what real time subs and slaves do?i dint believe you have to live in the same house house to know a person, i knew my grandma all my life, i never met her till i was older , but once i did it wast a big revelation , she was the same lady as in her letters.and we continued our relationship just fine.


I strongly disagree you cant get to know some one by never meeting them face to face.I am a very shy person and am intimidated easily.I can tell my master on line things i have never nor will ever tell my friends and family , i can tell him my deepest darkest innermost thoughts desires and feelings. no it isn't the same as face to face or it wouldn't have got to this point..I honor it.it has been a life saver for me.


one of the arguments i have read is there is no touch.that is a plus for me i dint like being touched, i dint want to be hugged or kissed, so that isn't a problem for me , i can see how it would be for alto of people(( but remember i am broken))I read that alto of you would have a real partner then plastic e, again not a problem for me, i only ever came with one guy , and it was nothing like what my Master makes me feel, there is cumming and there is exploding, yes i could just masturbate alone but then it is just cumming.He makes me feel things no man ever has from 6000 miles away with out physically touching me.


another thing i have read is that why should i post kneel bitch for some ones pleasure?you got me there why would you?If you didn't want her kneel and it didn't please you i agree seems silly.personally bitch and kneel in order never make me happy LOL
in my limited experiences and they are very limited.I have found on line to be much better than real time,i never got my needs met r/t,had a hard time opening up to others.was never satisfied sexually even when i masturbated, and i personally feel you shouldn't have to masturbate after sex but there alot of guys out there who differ apparently.


i wouldn't want to take my on line relationship r/t and take a chance of it being ruined, neither of us wants a live in relationship.and neither of us wants to ruin a good thing.there are so many different people out there with so many different wants needs desires and kinks, i think it i unfair to say anything isn't real.I totally dint understand people who like pain. i have tried it i cant like it i dint find it sexually exciting, but i am not going to say it isn't real, whether on line or in real time , to the people who need that it is very real.very valid. it sure isn't for me though.I need control, that is why I am a slave.It doesn't really matter if that control comes from Jim next door or jack over seas.it is no less submission nd control because i have never touched him.i submit he controls, two needs are met and carried in real time , i am a real person with a real life doing real things so is he.((some one is probably going to say i am not real and dint have a real relationship, remember i am weird and broke))
any way enough prattling aimlessly, please debate gently i dont want to be ripped to shreds for my views.

p.s if i am not real please send me validation of this before april so i can be exempted from my income taxes

Disclaimer:The views of this slave do not neccessarily make sense and we do not apolgize or even understand her and make no excuses for her warped brain.

kat  



Wulfchyld -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 5:25:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

It is all cheese........ just different types.  Different flavors.....  and i agree eating block cheese is a completely different thing then eating shredded cheese........ but it is all cheese



Feeling mousey?



feylin -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 5:38:57 PM)

The cheese analogy isn't working for me. [:D]  In the end, you still get to eat your cheese.

Now if you had shredded cheese and your friend who lived three states away had the block cheese, you could argue back and forth about who had the better cheese.  Then your friend could send you pictures of her cheese ~ dressed up, spread on toast, whatever...but you still couldn't smell it, taste it, roll around in it, whatnot.  You would just have cheese envy if those pics were mighty tastey looking.  But, you could run out to the store and pick up your own block cheese now that you got a trusted recommendation for it and few ideas on how to slice it.  Of course, sometimes reality fails to meet the expectations of the cheese build up.  Which is going to suck if you already purchased the wine and crackers.  (Shredded cheese with crackers and wine is simply not done.) But what the hell, at least you got out for a bit and now you have wine.

As for the OP, all my experiences ~ online or offline ~ have been real and almost always fun and rewarding.  I think its telling that someone has time/inclination to worry or wonder or be critical of how others find happiness.  Its not like they stole your cheese.



Devilslilsister -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 5:46:10 PM)

and wouldnt one just feel silly argueing over whose got the better cheese?  Cheese is cheese.  All different types, flavors, ect.  Yet its all cheese and really one cheese isnt better then another.  Sorta like cows.  They're all cows and cheese is a by product of em.  Generally speaking.  Or goats. 

its still just cheese.  Argue ALL about whose cheese is better and right and the majority of us will just think its silly to argue about cheese. 



Wulfchyld -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 5:47:27 PM)

My cheese is gooder than your cheese! (sang to the tune of armor hotdog)



mymasterssub69 -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 5:55:49 PM)

my personally pov (you can flame me later)

not everyone has the privilege of living close to each other for a real time relationship yet that doesn't mean i don't have a relationship with or am not a submissive to my Daddy. my point is - don't knock those who have an online D/s relationship. i would love to have Daddy close to me 24/7 or vice versa however don't arrogantly say i don't have a real life or real time D/s experience because it's online.  i'm still a submissive, though a far ...he sets goals and rules that i must abide by.  each D/s relationship is unique and special.

flame away



KnightofMists -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 6:11:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Ever read a book or take a class on how to do something and then struggle to do the simplest things on your own? 

Now, I am the first to recommend that people new to S&M read books, but at least those books were written by people who had actually done the things they write about.  Would you choose the doctor fresh out of med school or would you prefer the one who has cut open a few hundred people and gained real world experience to do your brain surgery?

Online is quite real in my opinion, but it isn't real S&M, it isn't real sex, it isn't real relationships, it isn't much of anything, it is just "real online" and NOTHING more.  Combine that with the fact that online self selects for people who often don't have real life relationships and tend not to have any real life S&M experience, you have a recipe for disaster and broken hearts.


There is a difference between "Acquired Knowledge"  and "Applied Knowledge"

In the context of Online.. we can "Acquire Knowledge"... but  it is in "Applying that Knowledge that is important to me

I listen to alot of people express thoughts and opinions.  But the ones that gain my interest the most is those that express "Applied Knowledge"  rather than just sharing information.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 6:33:37 PM)

As long as we are using the cheese analogy.

If all you knew of cheese was from a can and American cheese and you didn't know anything else existed, you would think you knew all about cheese.

Someone from France or Italy would look at you and know that your experience of cheese pales into insignificance compared with the reality but the American eating cheese person couldn't comprehend the difference.



KnightofMists -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 6:48:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

As long as we are using the cheese analogy.

If all you knew of cheese was from a can and American cheese and you didn't know anything else existed, you would think you knew all about cheese.



actually No..  I don't think a person would automatically think that one would know all there is to know about cheese.  Some individuals are particularly open-minded... and preceptive enough to realize that their acquired knowledge is limited and not unlimited.   Therefore, such individuals would appreciate what they know is limited and that it can be expanded.

Of couse some individuals are rather close-minded.. and consider what they know to be all there is to know of a given subject.  The longer these types of individuals are in evolved in a particular field.. they um more absoluted arrogant they can become.

quote:


Someone from France or Italy would look at you and know that your experience of cheese pales into insignificance compared with the reality but the American eating cheese person couldn't comprehend the difference.


Yes... I agree.. a person that expresses a "Know It all" attitude of unlimited knowledge but yet is actually limited well below the acquired knowledge of others would be seen to have a limited understanding and couldn't appreciate or comprehend the differences.



KATRA -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 7:08:31 PM)

I have this sudden craving for cheese , grilled cheese any one ?

that was supposed to be a general post, guess i need a crash course in message boards!!



SimplyMichael -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 7:13:26 PM)

Yeah yeah, you sound like Noah.

One can always find exceptions but in this case they prove my point.

There isn't anything you can share online that you can't share in person.  There is much that you can share in person that you can't online. 

While one might suspect that they don't know all about cheese, they have no idea what they are missing.  While someone from Italy or France might not know all about cheese, they have direct experience of a vastly richer and broader experience than anyone with limited experience.  Their experience is real, it has substance, the person who lacks it, lacks it. 

I am a very sexual being, while I have never been bi, I have been on the bottom of a 69 while a man is fucking the woman over me, I have had a woman pull out her strap on from another woman's cunt and I have sucked on it, I have eaten my own cum , blah blah blah.  I still have no idea what it is like to be bi, gay, or a woman.  I can suspect, I can get some of it right, but I haven't been there and simply don't know as much as someone who did it once "for real"



KnightofMists -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 7:20:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Yeah yeah, you sound like Noah.



thank you!



Noah -> RE: Why online isn't (2/4/2007 10:52:20 PM)

Who woke this thread up anyway?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

There isn't anything you can share online that you can't share in person.  


Michael, this is so obviously and patently false. I mean it ignores just immense, blatant, in-your-face issues that don't even take any imagination to see. As well it misses a great deal in the way of things that might take some imagination for you to think of, based on your own limited, failed experience. But take it from someone with lots of remote experience and lots of  up-against experience, too. Dominance and submission happen both ways. Sadism and Masochism happen both ways, remotely and up-against.

You tried remotely. You totally sucked monkey balls at it, apparently.You are just incompetent and incapable where this stuff is concerned, so it would seem. That doesn't make you a bad guy. It doesn't even make you look silly. You're better than I am at a lot of things, I have no doubt. And know that I mean that sincerely. I fully expect that a good number the things you are much better at than me at are BDSMy things. We each have our own gifts and shortcomings.

The difference is, I don't spend a fucking months of my life on a thread promoting the preposterous claim that something you do every day is impossible--or whatever mealy-mouthed, hedged language you have backed in to since the start of this thread in the vain hope of finding a defensible position.

Your posts in general are so worthwhile, including the bitchy ones. If I had a top twenty list of guys who post here I'm thinking you'd be on it. Hell, you'd probably be in the top half of that. But pal, you just come off here in this thread as a nincompoop, clueless to the fact that BDSM is more than slap and tickle, that submission happens in the mind and heart.

And you look something like paranoid, too. I mean all these nice folks sharing their experiences with you quite openly and you behaving in response as if they all got together to collectively confront you with a concocted lie.

Any number of people have posted here to testify that they have indeed submitted to people they have never met. And you just keep jumping up and down yelling "No you dih-int!"

Your little crusade to prove the Earth flat has devolved to the point of little more than tiresome bullshit, frankly.

We are not all lying to you, Michael. We do this. Done with integrity and imagination it can be a rich and fulfilling experience for some people--and not just people with no proximate BDSM experience.

This isn't some airy theory from some inexperienced noob. This is a factual report from a man who has had a large amount of  "touching" BDSM experience with partners you would be very pleased indeed to mess around with, I promise you. I tell you this, KOM tells you this, any number of credible people tell you this. Then you offer responses which entail that we are either liars or somehow mistaken about something we could hardly be mistaken about.

To borrow language from the tail-end of your post: we have been there, remotely and in person, not once, but many times. We are not theorizing as to whether it is D/s (or "real" D/s.) We know what BDSM is as much as anyone else who has engaged in it in the restricted sense that you are willing to call real.

That is to say, we can recognize genuine BDSM no less well than you can.

Based on that experience we are taking time to tell you that remote interaction can be BDSM just as genuinely as proximate interaction can be.

You don't get it, Michael. That's fine. Lot's of good people have tried to share their vision with you and you sit there snarling and plugging your ears waiting for your next chance to regurgitate your misconceptions once again. That part is sort of fucked up, in my view.

Can you please just admit that you don't get it--or be really expansive and admit that you don't so much as want to understand it, even if that means you have to ignore earnest testimony from good people (present company excluded) with no axe to grind? Can you admit that you have chosen to close your mind to what is to me and others a large and rich province of BDSM, because based on your limited experience it just doesn't ring your bell (which decision of course you are entitled to do; I know I have selected some aspects of this not to engage in,) and can you let it go?



SimplyMichael -> RE: Why online isn't (2/5/2007 7:06:13 AM)

Noah,

I read your post a couple of times, nowhere did you explain how long distance is a place you can do things you can't do in real life.  I think a talented dominant can do all sorts of things long distance and have said as much.  I do not expect them to come forward but I have pushed a few charming women here to do things long distance they hadn't done before but they know and I know how much more it could have been if it was more than my voice they were subject to.  I help my ex get refocused on school about twice a month.  I talk to  her, figure out some steps to take to get her back on track, etc.  I use my slighly lower and more resonate domly voice while doing this and it really works for her.   The other night at 4am, she called sobbing and I worked her through her issues, got her calm, gave her an outline of what I wanted done and she made her flight the next morning with a packed suitcase.  I can do the online stuff but it is an empty shallow experience compared to waking up next to her.  I am a great big warm teddybear at night to keep her warm, in the morning I tend to be a bit cold and she is usually the warm one.  I wouldn't trade one night of that for a year of phone calls.

So, about the gist of your point that I lack the understanding of the depth possible online/long distance there is a fatal flaw on its face.  If I can be so blind as to not see the depth you see in it, that then opens the door to the possiblity that you don't see the depth capable in real life that I do and instead of my lack of understanding, it is yours that is at the root of this issue.



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