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Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 7:44:58 AM   
subspaceseven


Posts: 467
Joined: 3/2/2012
Status: offline 		So it seems another white person has shot and killed a black youth and is using the stand your ground excuse..

Seems if you hear loud music coming from the car next to you at a stop light an ask them to turn it down, exchange "words" with a black youth that is reason enough to shoot and kill them..... that is what happened in Florida This time held without bail and


Jordan Russell Davis, 17, and several other teenagers were sitting in a sport utility vehicle in the parking lot when Dunn pulled up next to them in a car and asked them to turn down their music, [Jacksonville sheriff's Lt. Rob] Schoonover said.

Jordan and Dunn exchanged words, and Dunn pulled a gun and shot eight or nine times, striking Jordan twice, Schoonover said. Jordan was sitting in the back seat. No one else was hurt.Dunn’s attorney Monday said her client acted responsibly and in self-defense. She did not elaborate.

the full story

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/11/27/1244411/jordan-russell-davis/

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 7:52:59 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		I'm trying to figure out why the color of the perp and victim matters.

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 7:57:00 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Let's at least be pleased that this time the authorities are treating it like there might be some reason to at least look when someone shoots someone else to death. Let's hope that a real investigation is done and a real trial is performed.

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 8:02:09 AM   
subspaceseven


Posts: 467
Joined: 3/2/2012
Status: offline 		Well in the last year two blk youth have been killed using the stand your ground defense...How come white youth are not being shot with this defense for playing loud music or walking around with nothing more than candy?????

Race should not matter, but with a GOP Gov and GOP Party attempting at great lengths to make it harder for minorities to even vote, it seems this state has a huge problem with race....and the killing of Bk youth seems OK...I do not see Fox News covering this story..

The guy who shot should be found guilty, hell he fired 8-9 shots into a car, yet the Corp media is not running the story Why????

< Message edited by subspaceseven -- 11/28/2012 8:04:00 AM >

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 8:10:44 AM   
MstSebastian


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Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		This is why I don't like news stories like this. There is NEVER full details. In our rush to judgment, we as a society cobble together bits and pieces of information, declare someone guilty, and then call for their heads. There hasn't even been a full investigation yet, let alone a trial, so how can we assume that this was not a legitimate case of self-defense? And, on the flipside, how can we assume it was? There is not enough detail, yet, to adequately judge this case.

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 8:12:11 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I'm trying to figure out why the color of the perp and victim matters.

You are? Really? This then is the "bad" version of color-blind that a black poster alluded to recently. Spin the story in your head a bit differently... Older black male shoots young white female and claims "stand your ground".

The colors of the participants matter to me because it's not my current assessment that blacks and whites have equal protections under the law... not even remotely so.

All that being said, so far in this story it looks like "so far, so good."


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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 8:13:10 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Thats the watered down version....

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-teen-shot-dead-loud-music-20121126,0,4320738.story

Witnesses.... Dunn drove off... witnesses took down tag number....



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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 8:22:59 AM   
graceadieu


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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstSebastian

This is why I don't like news stories like this. There is NEVER full details. In our rush to judgment, we as a society cobble together bits and pieces of information, declare someone guilty, and then call for their heads. There hasn't even been a full investigation yet, let alone a trial, so how can we assume that this was not a legitimate case of self-defense? And, on the flipside, how can we assume it was? There is not enough detail, yet, to adequately judge this case.


I cannot imagine any situation where driving across a parking lot to shoot a teenager sitting in the backseat of a car 9 times could be an act of self-defense - one that would be a better option than driving away. Can you?

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 8:25:55 AM   
MstSebastian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: MstSebastian

This is why I don't like news stories like this. There is NEVER full details. In our rush to judgment, we as a society cobble together bits and pieces of information, declare someone guilty, and then call for their heads. There hasn't even been a full investigation yet, let alone a trial, so how can we assume that this was not a legitimate case of self-defense? And, on the flipside, how can we assume it was? There is not enough detail, yet, to adequately judge this case.


I cannot imagine any situation where driving across a parking lot to shoot a teenager sitting in the backseat of a car 9 times could be an act of self-defense - one that would be a better option than driving away. Can you?

No, I can't. But, then again, I wasn't there. I don't know what was said. I don't know what happened. All I have to go on, like everyone else, are cobbled together news pieces, which are short and lacking in detail. Thus, anyone who can say it definitively WAS or WAS NOT self-defense is merely speculating based on their own assumptions of what happened. We weren't there, we don't know.

Personally, I'm going to wait until there is more detail before I judge whether he was acting in self-defense or just committed murder.

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 8:41:17 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstSebastian
Personally, I'm going to wait until there is more detail before I judge whether he was acting in self-defense or just committed murder.

Yup, I agree. In my mind, with the last go-round on this and now this one I'm not looking at the merits of this individual case. I'm looking at the performance of those sworn to "serve and protect". The last time my conclusion was that it was legal to shoot a black if you are white and in Florida. This time it seems more reasonable. But as you say, we'll have to wait for the story to play out.


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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 9:05:29 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven

Well in the last year two blk youth have been killed using the stand your ground defense...How come white youth are not being shot with this defense for playing loud music or walking around with nothing more than candy?????

Race should not matter, but with a GOP Gov and GOP Party attempting at great lengths to make it harder for minorities to even vote, it seems this state has a huge problem with race....and the killing of Bk youth seems OK...I do not see Fox News covering this story..

The guy who shot should be found guilty, hell he fired 8-9 shots into a car, yet the Corp media is not running the story Why????

no, you just dont happen to read every story on crazy idjots in FL (of which there are many).. there have been other shootings reported and I would guess yet more other shootings that dont make it to the front page...
Here is one ya missed.. they dont say in this article but I do believe both the shooter and victim were.. white..
http://www.news-press.com/article/20120725/CRIME/120725029/Cape-Coral-man-charged-shooting-death-door-door-salesman

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 9:20:00 AM   
DesideriScuri


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven
Well in the last year two blk youth have been killed using the stand your ground defense...How come white youth are not being shot with this defense for playing loud music or walking around with nothing more than candy?????


How many black youth have been killed without a Stand Your Ground defense? Are these the only two black youth killed this past year?

quote:

Race should not matter, but with a GOP Gov and GOP Party attempting at great lengths to make it harder for minorities to even vote, it seems this state has a huge problem with race....and the killing of Bk youth seems OK...I do not see Fox News covering this story..
The guy who shot should be found guilty, hell he fired 8-9 shots into a car, yet the Corp media is not running the story Why????


Race only matters when it happens to help politicize the issue. If it were a black youth shooting another black youth using Stand Your Ground as a defense, would you have posted this? I think not.

IMHO, the shooter did something wrong. Regardless of the validity of his defense claim, shooting 8 or 9 times into the vehicle strikes me as a bit excessive, not to mention fleeing the scene of a crime.

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 9:32:06 AM   
stellauk


Posts: 1360
Status: offline 		And gun ownership isn't an issue here?

How many people does someone have to shoot for it to become an issue?

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 9:41:38 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk
And gun ownership isn't an issue here? How many people does someone have to shoot for it to become an issue?

In case you hadn't noticed we're rather cavalier about human life in our culture Stella. So no, we're not all that concerned about the death toll. As I understand it the right to keep and bear arms was in the constitution to protect ourselves from our own government. Given our history that's not really all that surprising. Up to a few years ago I had thought that was an antiquated concept that could be safely retired. No longer.


< Message edited by JeffBC -- 11/28/2012 9:43:58 AM >

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 10:25:47 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Fr

As much as I'd like to shoot those that have the loud ass stereos......

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 11:19:01 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Fr

As much as I'd like to shoot those that have the loud ass stereos......

I'd rather drive by them and simultaneously hit a really DEEP puddle because the little shits always have their windows down.

I've managed to do it twice.

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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 11:28:02 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Waterboarding... gangnam style!

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 11:35:47 AM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline 		We had some neighbors who used to play their grinding bass "F word rap" as one little old lady called it at all hours of the night. I was a teacher who had to be at school at 7 and had two small children.

So one morning at 6:00 am when I woke up....I parked right in front of their house, rolled down my windows, and blasted O Fortuna. tee hee

I was....skeptical at best over the neighborhood watch guy's claim of self-defense. Unless the boy in question pointed a gun from inside said SUV...I do not see HOW this could be self-defense. Then again, I have a problem with the deciding factor of what is self-defense or harassment being "feelings." I "felt" threatened so I shot him. I "felt" harassed so it was harassment. It is so subjective.

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 11:40:58 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Let's at least be pleased that this time the authorities are treating it like there might be some reason to at least look when someone shoots someone else to death. Let's hope that a real investigation is done and a real trial is performed.


QFT

ETA: and how ridiculous is it that we should be THANKFUL that due process is being performed!!


< Message edited by hlen5 -- 11/28/2012 11:42:30 AM >

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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/28/2012 1:39:40 PM   
muhly22222


Posts: 463
Joined: 3/25/2010
Status: offline 		I don't see any grounds for a self-defense claim here, regardless of the races of the victim and the shooter. Even in a stand-your-ground state, a person still has to have a "reasonable apprehension of imminent death or great bodily harm" to succeed on a self-defense claim when deadly force was used. All that the stand-your-ground part means is that there isn't a duty to retreat, if retreat can be safely accomplished. Here, although I'm sure all of the facts aren't available, it does seem unlikely that the shooter could have had any apprehension of death or bodily injury. The story said the teenager was unarmed, so he couldn't have pulled a gun. Both of them were in their respective cars, so there was no danger of being directly physically assaulted. Sure, they were yelling at each other, but that doesn't mean (or it shouldn't) that somebody's about to die.

As for why nobody's covering it, there's not really a major reason to. Yes, it is white-on-black crime, but the police are investigating, which was where the Trayvon Martin controversy got started: the police didn't investigate. It's the kind of crime that might make the local news all over the country, but isn't likely to go past that.

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