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RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 2:25:14 AM   
absolutchocolat


Posts: 1392
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quote:

When you're the default (ie. white), it's quite difficult to see yourself the same, I'm sure. But I'd imagine that if you were born in a different nation, in a different skin, where you actually have an identity and a culture. Where you actually have something that you can lose. You would be a very different person.



i'll have to disagree with you there. lots of whites in america have roots in other countries -- european and otherwise. tell italian-americans or polish immigrants (to give just two examples) that they don't have a culture and i bet they'll disagree with you.

i understand your passion on the issue of racially-motivated murders, but until the facts come out, we can't assume that a hate crime has been committed solely based on the fact that the victim was black and the alleged shooter was white. it's a speculative, knee-jerk reaction.


(in reply to Nelee)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 2:25:30 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nelee

Quoting things out of context sure does rally that inner rage, doesn't it?

Not at all, I'm anxious to learn. Won't you please tell us more about white people?

You know you want to.

K.

(in reply to Nelee)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 2:27:06 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nelee
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nelee
When you're the default (ie. white), it's quite difficult to see yourself the same, I'm sure. But I'd imagine that if you were born in a different nation, in a different skin, where you actually have an identity and a culture...

I am surprised to learn that as a white I don't have an identity or a culture. What an educational place this is! I hope you'll tell us more about white people.

Quoting things out of context sure does rally that inner rage, doesn't it? Try harder.

How about actually trying to argue? Or you can just appeal to pathos and hope you build up enough offense in another on looker that you find an ally to join your cause. Maybe that person will be better suited for doing what you cannot.


You want to know who has the right to bitch about the hand, life has dealt them? Go in to a hospital sometime soon, and talk with the children that suffer some of the worst stuff mankind has ever known. Report back to us on the question "How many of them are thankful that your life is worst than theirs because the color of your skin isn't the perfect shade you demand it to be."

I think you will find those children have twice the amount of wisdom having only lived half the time you have 'endured'.

(in reply to Nelee)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 2:51:51 AM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline 		Fr

Even if he manages to beat the murder charge the attempted murder charge will likely get him. Firing into a vehicle of passengers then leaving is not going to play well. And if none of them was armed he is likely fucked.

Some police departments were getting flack behind officers who jump in front of cars and then shooting into the car because they are scared it would run them over.

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(in reply to subspaceseven)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 3:24:44 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		Having lived in Jacksonville for 3 years, and being permanently a resident of the area that the young man is from, I have followed this situation from both cities. A little rage goes a long way, and short of the music being loud enough to cause the shooters brain to snap and blood to flow from his ears....It's a bullshit defense!..and he should plan to stall, continue, and block as much of the process of trial for as long as he can...Unless of course he might like being a prison bitch?
The best coverage of the case has been on Jacksonville.com, if that is stand your ground, before I go back to Florida, I am mounting automatic weapons on my car just in case I have to suffer through any Country Western, I find disagreeable...

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(in reply to blacksword404)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 3:45:14 AM   
MissAsylum


Posts: 1863
Joined: 1/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat

quote:

When you're the default (ie. white), it's quite difficult to see yourself the same, I'm sure. But I'd imagine that if you were born in a different nation, in a different skin, where you actually have an identity and a culture. Where you actually have something that you can lose. You would be a very different person.



i'll have to disagree with you there. lots of whites in america have roots in other countries -- european and otherwise. tell italian-americans or polish immigrants (to give just two examples) that they don't have a culture and i bet they'll disagree with you.

i understand your passion on the issue of racially-motivated murders, but until the facts come out, we can't assume that a hate crime has been committed solely based on the fact that the victim was black and the alleged shooter was white. it's a speculative, knee-jerk reaction.




QFT.

Nelee- you are not helping your stance one bit with your "us vs them" mentality. Nobody is taking what you are saying out of context. Its called being able to see your bottom line. Moral of the story, if you will.

If the posters who I know to be very articulate and quite astute are taking those things away from your posts, then you- are the one who needs to change your delivery to make yourself clear.

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(in reply to absolutchocolat)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 5:11:40 AM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline
quote:

The best coverage of the case has been on Jacksonville.com, if that is stand your ground, before I go back to Florida, I am mounting automatic weapons on my car just in case I have to suffer through any Country Western, I find disagreeable...


AMEN to that. I can't think of anything worse than Waylon Jennings played at ear bleeding decibals....lol No really, country music gives me hives.

This man needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Defending my home when a violent intruder bursts in is one thing....THIS is ridiculous.

(in reply to MissAsylum)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 5:39:58 AM   
stellauk


Posts: 1360
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Your original statement implied that gun OWNERSHIP was the problem.



Not necessarily, as it might facilitate a problem rather than be the problem.

Even though we have very strict firearms controls quite a number of people in the UK possess guns, particularly in rural areas.

However culturally we're not walking round with the 2nd amendment as part of our cultural awareness so it's assumed almost automatically that anyone in an urban area in possession of a gun is a criminal (see discussions on the causes behind the start of last year's riots in London, particularly in Tottenham).

I was just wondering whether having the vast majority of people owning guns responsibly created any additional problems or factors specifically relating to gun crime.

For the record I don't perceive Americans as all walking round in Stetsons and cowboy boots and I'm pretty sure that when you order a drink in a bar they don't slide it down the entire length of the bar to reach you.



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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 7:40:13 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk
I was just wondering whether having the vast majority of people owning guns responsibly created any additional problems or factors specifically relating to gun crime.

Of course it does. Us humans, in general, are wound pretty tight. We are a very aggressive species and so if you give us a lot of weaponry you can expect the effects of that to show in fatalities. I don't even own a gun and I never have but I'm thinking of doing so now if I were to move back to the US.

quote:

I'm pretty sure that when you order a drink in a bar they don't slide it down the entire length of the bar to reach you.

And can I just say for the record how much that pisses me off. They OUGHTA do it that way!

edited to add
As for unnamed black chicks and their formulaic racially motivated hatred that's what the hide button is for. Conveniently, such people seldom accrue any real power in society because the rest of us pretty much recognize how poisonous it is.


< Message edited by JeffBC -- 11/29/2012 7:44:57 AM >

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
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officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to stellauk)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 8:04:57 AM   
MstSebastian


Posts: 169
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nelee

...You do realize that the word "you" can be used as a singular and plural indicator, right? I think I'm going to need you to go back to English 101 and learn to read deary, haha. Now, with that newfound knowledge, let's see if you can now decipher my response! I'll give you a hint: Read "you" as a general, plural subject, and you may understand it.

I don't know anything about you (other than your apparent ignorance shown in this thread). Why would I be personally referring to yourself? Hehe, silly.

Don't try to school me, deary. You aren't good at it. The statement you made belies your claim of "you" being used in that context as a plural indicator. It was stated in direct response to my post, thus indicating its singular usage as a signifier to me. Don't try to back peddle. It's unbecoming.

But, that little rhetorical lesson aside, the question I asked is still unanswered. What ideologies have I, or any poster here, "allowed?"

_____________________________

The greatest gift a person can give is the gift of their willing submission. It is a gift more precious than gold and more fragile than glass. It is my responsibility to make sure that, every day, I am worthy of that gift.

(in reply to Nelee)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 8:21:41 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstSebastian
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nelee
...You do realize that the word "you" can be used as a singular and plural indicator, right? I think I'm going to need you to go back to English 101 and learn to read deary, haha. Now, with that newfound knowledge, let's see if you can now decipher my response! I'll give you a hint: Read "you" as a general, plural subject, and you may understand it.
I don't know anything about you (other than your apparent ignorance shown in this thread). Why would I be personally referring to yourself? Hehe, silly.

Don't try to school me, deary. You aren't good at it. The statement you made belies your claim of "you" being used in that context as a plural indicator. It was stated in direct response to my post, thus indicating its singular usage as a signifier to me. Don't try to back peddle. It's unbecoming.
But, that little rhetorical lesson aside, the question I asked is still unanswered. What ideologies have I, or any poster here, "allowed?"


I'll even go one further and ask if Nelee has spoken out against the human trafficking, esp. sex trafficking, that is being investigated heavily in NW Ohio? If not, is she part of the problem? Is she crusading for more anti-AIDS programs for 3rd World Countries? If not, is she part f the problem? Is she leading the charge, or even part of the charge, supporting women's rights in the Middle East? Does she speak out against anti-First Amendment actions? If she isn't supporting liberty and freedom for all equally, isn't she part of that problem? Fight for women's rights over men's rights, and she's now part of the problem promoting gender equality. Support Affirmative Action? You are part of the problem.

What someone looks like does impact our reactions. That's natural. It impacts mine. But, skin color isn't one of those factors. Act like an asshat, and I'll likely avoid you regardless of the color of your skin. Dress and act like a "gangsta" and I'll avoid you, even if you're white. Treating anyone different because of their skin color, even if it's a positive treatment, is discriminatory, and can be considered racist.

I don't hide my beliefs. I'm a racist. I believe one race is better than the rest. I will support programs that impact that race even if it tramples other races. I am, of course, promoting the Human race.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MstSebastian)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 8:48:00 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
Of course it does. Us humans, in general, are wound pretty tight. We are a very aggressive species and so if you give us a lot of weaponry you can expect the effects of that to show in fatalities. I don't even own a gun and I never have but I'm thinking of doing so now if I were to move back to the US.

That's actually an argument for gun control over here, at least: British people are often wound a lot tighter than the yanks and there's fairly toxic levels of (mostly class based, but occasionally racial or religious) resentment bubbling away in the depths our psyches. If you could buy a handgun over the counter here, half of the population would likely be dead inside of a week, I suspect.

(As for the other, I'd buy a gun myself if I moved to the 'States. Refusing to arm yourself in an armed society is an invitation to trouble. It's very unlikely that it would ever become an issue, but if it does and you're not ready for it, you're fucked.)

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 8:49:33 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I don't hide my beliefs. I'm a racist. I believe one race is better than the rest. I will support programs that impact that race even if it tramples other races. I am, of course, promoting the Human race.

You ain't right all that often, but when you are, you're often very right indeed. Kudos.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 8:52:23 AM   
LizDeluxe


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nelee
And race is mentioned because race matters.


Race is mentioned for one reason and one reason only. To fuel more racial hatred.

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While is there no liberal talk radio? There are at least five conservative talk radio shows available over the air every day in the radio market I live in. Why does the liberal message fail to attract listeners?

(in reply to Nelee)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 8:56:51 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		As with other there is a claim that they were defending themselves, in this case, a shotgun, however no shotgun was found. There are studies on this issue, if find them interesting...70% of those shot are black, no weapons, almost all of those defending themselves are white.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 8:58:52 AM   
MstSebastian


Posts: 169
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		Source for that study?

_____________________________

The greatest gift a person can give is the gift of their willing submission. It is a gift more precious than gold and more fragile than glass. It is my responsibility to make sure that, every day, I am worthy of that gift.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 9:00:05 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I'd be interested to see that as well.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to MstSebastian)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 9:25:56 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe
Race is mentioned for one reason and one reason only. To fuel more racial hatred.

Thank you for informing me what my reasons are for mentioning race in a conversation. I had been very confused about that up until your post.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LizDeluxe)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 9:39:53 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe
Race is mentioned for one reason and one reason only. To fuel more racial hatred.

Thank you for informing me what my reasons are for mentioning race in a conversation. I had been very confused about that up until your post.


Actually, subspaceseven mentioned race in the OP. I'm thinking that LizDeluxe is responding to Nelee's claim why race was mentioned, which was a question posed to subspaceseven. I don't believe you were the target of Liz's comment.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Stand you rground ..again in FL - 11/29/2012 4:31:07 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Let's see the guy fires off some 8 rounds, then drives off, is caught some almost 200 miles away. Claims there was a shot gun, police did not find one or any other fire arm. Guy claims he was in fear of his life...the music must have been something, uses a lawyer who sights "Stand Your gound" even at the gas station...yep real responisble that one is.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 60
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