The German model (Full Version)

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Yachtie -> The German model (11/29/2012 7:13:38 AM)

Some folks here love to tout the EU as superior. A few even parade Germany as a model.

On September 17, the German Labor Ministry sent a draft report “on Poverty and Wealth” to the other ministries to be rubber-stamped. Only the final report, once sanctified by Chancellor Angela Merkel, would be made public. The draft was supposed to remain hidden. But it seeped to the surface almost immediately. And it was hot. Too hot.

The massive data (PDF, 535 pages) described the tough reality that many people faced in Germany—a reality that got tougher every year. For example, in 1998, the lower 50% of the population owned 4% of all private wealth, while the upper 10% owned 45%. By 2008, the lower 50% owned only 1%, but the upper 10% had increased its share to 53% (at the expense also of the in-between 40%). Other reports have painted similar pictures.

The poverty report by Germany’s statistical agency showed that the “poverty rate” in Germany has been creeping up: in 2008, it was 15.5%; in 2009 it was 15.6%, and in 2010 it was 15.8%. Particularly hard-hit were people under 65 who lived alone. Their poverty rate was 36.1%. For single-parent households, it was 37.1%. The city of Munich issued its own poverty report. By taking into account Munich’s high cost of living, it found that nearly a fifth of its residents lived in poverty.

Poverty data has been stirring public debate for a while, and across most of Europe. Even the largest consumer products companies are adjusting to it by using commercial strategies that were successful in developing countries [read.... The “Pauperization of Europe”]. But now the Labor Ministry’s “Poverty and Wealth” report, as revised by the Economy Ministry, was leaked to the Süddeutsche Zeitung, which then put a grunt to work to compare the two versions. Turns out, the original version had been censured!

It started in the introduction. In the new version, the sentence, “Private wealth in Germany is very unevenly distributed,” has been deleted.

...

Even certain data has been deleted, including this sentence: “However, in 2010, over four million people worked in Germany for an hourly wage of less than €7.”



For the whole article with links.


I await the defense of the bedrock of socialism's utopian experiment with great anticipation. [:D]




thompsonx -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 7:19:28 AM)


quote:

I await the defense of the bedrock of socialism's utopian experiment with great anticipation.


There will be 40 feet of snow in furnace creek before your peurile assertion has any bassis in fact.




mnottertail -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 7:27:19 AM)

Some folks here love to tout this vague some folks here like to tout as if it is a) true, and b) a meaningful lead in to their inchoate asswipe as 'proof' of something unnamed.  

What are the poverty rates in the US for the same groups?  Since it is not a comparison, nor is there a frame of reference, it is not remarkable.

I do not think that the 'republicans' in this world would be quoting actual poverty statistics in the United States or the number of full time minimum wagers (Wal-Mart, et al) who live in poverty while the CEOs bring home untold millions per year to insure they stay there.

Oh, yes, we don't have people who live in poverty in the US only the shiftless (usually overwhelmingly non-white populations) who are lazy, shiftless welfare, foodstamp or other scams of ne'er do well nature against the 'fiscally responsible'.





meatcleaver -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 7:27:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

I await the defense of the bedrock of socialism's utopian experiment with great anticipation. [:D]



You really ought to read up on what you want to discuss before you throw something out there. The disillusionment in Europe with the EU is that it is trying to emulate the US capitalism, ie. socialism for the rich and brute capitalism for the poor.

If the EU was socialist it wouldn't have bailed out private banks because their wouldn't have been any private banks to bail out and it certainly wouldn't be forcing austerity on Greece, Spain and Ireland, it would raise taxes on the rich (if it had the power to do so).

As for Germany. It exports more manufactured goods than the USA and it has a quarter of the population. Rightwing politics are hitting the poor as capitalist policies redistribute wealth upwards to the rich, which I might remind you is a capitalist policy, not a socialist one.




crazyml -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 7:32:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
I await the defense of the bedrock of socialism's utopian experiment with great anticipation. [:D]



I hate to burden you with reality, but could you provide an example of a socialist utopian experiment that we can discuss.

I'm sure it was a slip up with cut and paste that can easily be rectified but the example you have included appears to be of a country that has never been socialist.
[edited for pointlessness]




mnottertail -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 7:32:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
I await the defense of the bedrock of socialism's utopian experiment with great anticipation. [:D]


Where does this bedrock of socialism and utopian experimentation enter into this?  Cuz one thing Germany ain't is: Socialist.  




cloudboy -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 7:59:47 AM)

quote:


You really ought to read up on what you want to discuss before you throw something out there.


It's easier to be a Drudge Report dittohead.




JeffBC -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 8:34:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
against the 'fiscally responsible'.

Just to be sure I'm clear. The fiscally responsible folks you are talking about.... are these the ones who ran up a HUGE casino tab in shady derivatives then DEMANDED trillions of dollars in welfare from the government and then gave themselves billions in bonuses? Or, perhaps, are these the fiscally responsible politicians who fund non-specific, never-ending wars that cost trillions even as our deficit mushrooms? Maybe you're talking about the red states which, for the most part, are all welfare states but preach fiscal responsibility? Could you clarify Ron?




stellauk -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 8:56:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

I await the defense of the bedrock of socialism's utopian experiment with great anticipation. [:D]



What is a 'socialist utopian experiment' when it's at home?

What has this got to do with the EU?

I'm sorry but the OP reminds me of a Henry Moore sculpture.. It exists but the meaning and relationship to anything else is far from apparent.





Moonhead -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 8:58:11 AM)

FR:
I was very disappointed by the misleading title of this thread...




mnottertail -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 9:00:51 AM)

Ja, jezts alles Klaar!   Oder?




Moonhead -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 9:05:05 AM)

I was a bit annoyed I couldn't find the German language version, to be honest...
[:D]




mnottertail -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 9:11:00 AM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQIYEPe6DWY

Die, der, das; oder? Verstehen Sie? Das ist selbstverstehendlich, Ich gedanken.

You gotta go back before poverty for that one, Moon.




meatcleaver -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 9:35:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ja, jezts alles Klaar!   Oder?


Wer bumsten Sie, um das zu lernen? Tat Sie hören ihr nur zu, als sie einen Orgasmus hatte?




Hillwilliam -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 9:38:38 AM)

What???? No Claudia Schiffer pix?




DomKen -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 9:38:41 AM)

FR

Who touts the EU and Germany as superior to the USA? I read most every post made and cannot recall any such claims.

Even in discussions of European economics I don't recall anyone saying Germany is the model to emulate. The Scandinavian nations certainly but Germany?




mnottertail -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 9:42:09 AM)

Ich arbeiten bei die Armee im Grafenwohr von zwei und sebzig zur funf und sebzig.  Ich wissen kinder Deutsche.  




meatcleaver -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 10:07:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ich arbeiten bei die Armee im Grafenwohr von zwei und sebzig zur funf und sebzig.  Ich wissen kinder Deutsche.  


Ich stelle mir vor, dass das genug für Sie war, um eine Fraulein zu bumsen.




Moonhead -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 11:36:24 AM)

Art schule uber alles...




subspaceseven -> RE: The German model (11/29/2012 12:50:03 PM)

OK, if you are going to name this thread "German Model"

Then it should at least include a reference to any of the following models and not your BS socialism non fact checking lane crap...

Heidi Klum

Natalia Avelon

Nastassja Kinski

Just to name a few





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