Palestine gets UN observer status. (Full Version)

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Politesub53 -> Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/29/2012 3:49:55 PM)

Netanyahu wont be best pleased. Hopefully world wide recognition will help push things towards a peaceful solution.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20550864



tazzygirl -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/29/2012 4:00:20 PM)

And yet....

America's ambassador to the United Nations, Susan Rice, stated that today's resolution on the status of Palestine as an observer state "does not establish that Palestine is a state."

"The United States believes the current resolution should not and cannot be read as establishing terms of reference," said Rice. "In many respects, the resolution prejudges the very issues it says are to be resolved through negotiation, particularly with respect to territory. At the same time, it virtually ignores other core questions such as security, which must be solved for any viable agreement to be achieved."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/us-resolution-does-not-establish-palestine-state_664205.html

I also saw today that the US sent a message that if they are recognized as a state, they may lose financial backing

http://news.yahoo.com/lawmakers-threaten-cutoff-palestinian-aid-174046339.html

and then this....

The most striking shift is that the Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, was able to peel away support from states of an internally divided Europe, beginning with France earlier this week. Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius’s announcement that Paris—to Washington’s consternation—would vote for the UN resolution opened the floodgates. Spain, Italy, Norway, Greece, Belgium, and Denmark, among others, since adopted the same stance, while the United Kingdom and Germany pledged to abstain, rather than vote against the motion.

http://blogs.cfr.org/patrick/2012/11/29/israel-loses-european-support-on-palestinian-statehood/

To be honest, it looks like its gonna get even messier.



Politesub53 -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/29/2012 4:26:21 PM)

You could be right Tazzy, I hope that you arent though.



tazzygirl -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/29/2012 4:34:10 PM)

I do too. I think a lot will depend on what Palestine does at this point.



Politesub53 -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/29/2012 4:43:25 PM)

And on Israels next move, they have already threatened to have Abbas removed if the vote went the Palestinians way. I am guessing the recent moving of the capital to Jerusalem was also due to this vote being in the pipeline.



DaNewAgeViking -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/29/2012 5:00:00 PM)

One wonders how much of this is support for the Palestinians, and how much of it is against Israel? Support for right wing extremism is fading everywhere, and the Israelis have shown repeatedly that they won't settle for anything less than total victory in Palestine and elsewhere (such as the recent agitation for further reparations from Germany). Palestine isn't all that great a neighbor, but could it be that Israel is starting to look like a lost cause, ethically?

[sm=beatdeadhorse.gif]



Politesub53 -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/29/2012 5:05:06 PM)

Dont be fooled.....Right wing extremism is on the rise in Europe, more so the eastern parts.



DomKen -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/29/2012 5:10:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

One wonders how much of this is support for the Palestinians, and how much of it is against Israel? Support for right wing extremism is fading everywhere, and the Israelis have shown repeatedly that they won't settle for anything less than total victory in Palestine and elsewhere (such as the recent agitation for further reparations from Germany). Palestine isn't all that great a neighbor, but could it be that Israel is starting to look like a lost cause, ethically?

It's been 45 years since Isral occupied the territories. How ridiculously incompetent would the Israelis have to be to have not achieved "total victory" in that time period if that was their goal?



Jonc101 -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/29/2012 11:17:49 PM)

Damned good move, with such a majority too! Next step is total recognition of a Palestinian state, then we can move towards a Confederation of the M/E. Just have to get rid of the ridiculous theocratic notions of 'a Jewish State' and a 'Sharia state'.

After all, who'd have ever believed that apartheid, the Soviet Union and the Berlin Wall would ever crumble?



TizzyTara -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/30/2012 2:38:26 AM)

I just want to see a peaceful resolution. I don't see why Palestine and Israel can't reach one. All they have to do is agree which bit of land belongs to whom.



meatcleaver -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/30/2012 4:24:26 AM)

There won't be any peace in the Middle east as long as the Israeli tail can wag the US dog.



meatcleaver -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/30/2012 4:29:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

Support for right wing extremism is fading everywhere, and the Israelis have shown repeatedly that they won't settle for anything less than total victory in Palestine and elsewhere (such as the recent agitation for further reparations from Germany). Palestine isn't all that great a neighbor, but could it be that Israel is starting to look like a lost cause, ethically?



Israel's successive rightwing governments and their brutal suppression of the Palestinians with their extra-judicial executions which more often than not kill innocent women and children, is definitely losing international support for Israel. As for its request for more reparations from Germany, people find Israel's use of the holocaust as justification to squeeze more money out of Germany as cynical in the extreme, especially when Israel treats the Palestinians in a way that is reminiscent of the Nazis.



tazzygirl -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/30/2012 4:50:28 AM)

quote:

Israel's successive rightwing governments and their brutal suppression of the Palestinians with their extra-judicial executions which more often than not kill innocent women and children, is definitely losing international support for Israel.


You arent suggesting that Israeli women and children have not died, are you? I find that argument to be more an emotional blackmail than anything else when its happening on both sides. Palestinians cant wail about the death toll of their children when the same is happening to Israeli children.



vincentML -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/30/2012 5:05:52 AM)

quote:

"The United States believes the current resolution should not and cannot be read as establishing terms of reference," said Rice. "In many respects, the resolution prejudges the very issues it says are to be resolved through negotiation, particularly with respect to territory. At the same time, it virtually ignores other core questions such as security, which must be solved for any viable agreement to be achieved."

It is so bogus to bring out the tired old security card in an era of long range missiles. Just an excuse to justify the Israeli colonization of the West Bank and the encirclement of Palestinian villages by connecting roadways. I can't imagine a Palestinian state with dignity and self respect as long as the Settlers remain encamped on Palestinian land.



meatcleaver -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/30/2012 5:18:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Israel's successive rightwing governments and their brutal suppression of the Palestinians with their extra-judicial executions which more often than not kill innocent women and children, is definitely losing international support for Israel.


You arent suggesting that Israeli women and children have not died, are you? I find that argument to be more an emotional blackmail than anything else when its happening on both sides. Palestinians cant wail about the death toll of their children when the same is happening to Israeli children.


You aren't suggesting the Palestinians are subjugating the Israelis are you?
The last time I checked it was the Palestinains that were in the open prison camp that is Gaza and in last upsurge in the conflict it was 38 Palestinians dead to 3 Iraelis. In fact only 17 Israelis have died of rocket attacks in the last 10 years. In that time  6,617 Palestinians and 1,097 Israelis dead (the Israeli figure includes IDF who aren't civilians) When it comes to children, 971 have been killed in that time, that is 88% are Palestinian, 12% Israelis. Do the math.

Palestinians are the only subjugated people in the world who are expected to guarantee the security of its brutal oppressor. The US unconditional support for such oppression tells the world the US is only interested in freedom when it is in the USA's interests.

As for Britain, the US just has to say bark and it does. We're just a lapdog.



tazzygirl -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/30/2012 5:21:12 AM)

I dont play the numbers game. One on either side is one too many in my opinion. Nor am I playing favorites here. They are both wrong, and I freely say so.



meatcleaver -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/30/2012 5:22:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont play the numbers game. One on either side is one too many in my opinion. Nor am I playing favorites here. They are both wrong, and I freely say so.


No you don't because the numbers game is inconvenient as is the fact one side is brutally subjugating the other.



tazzygirl -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/30/2012 5:23:03 AM)

It has nothing to do with convenience. It has to do with power grabs on both sides and stupid men refusing to even talk for the good of their people.



meatcleaver -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/30/2012 5:27:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It has nothing to do with convenience. It has to do with power grabs on both sides and stupid men refusing to even talk for the good of their people.


This news might not have made it to the USA but when Hamas was elected in free and fair elections, they offered to put everything on the negotiating table, I repeat, EVERYTHING, including recognition of Israel along with all land claims. Israel refused to speak to Hamas without in affect, their full capitulation, then Israel called Hamas terrorists, the USA agreed and decided the palestinians needed a puppet government such as Abbas who the Israelis are now threatening to remove because HE wants international recognition of the palestinian nation.

There is only one side that is refusing to talk.



tazzygirl -> RE: Palestine gets UN observer status. (11/30/2012 5:28:58 AM)

Didnt Hamas violently take over power?

How many factions of Hamas are there?

I have seen posters talk about how different factions... not the m ilitary ones.. are the ones responsible for many of the bombings. Is that true? If so, why isnt Hamas doing anything about it?



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