RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/1/2012 8:41:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

All too many dominants come to this from a place of weakness. The seek to make tbe other low so they dont feel so small. Gor and female supremecy all spring from that same place.



Mods alerted to move this thread to the Gorean forum. [8D]



NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/1/2012 8:50:46 AM)

OP, I most assuredly am NOT a female supremacist. I also don't believe subs of either gender are inferior. I believe that subs and Dom/mes are equal members of a dynamic/relationship but that Dom/mes just happen to hold the majority if not all of the power in that dynamic/relationship. I prefer a sub with a backbone and a mind of his own and who's not afraid to express it. I still have the last word, but I still like to hear what he has to say.

Not all of life is like you see in porn, thank God/dess!! If it were, I'd have to find me a leather corset and some thigh high boots. haha Go to some munches and other functions and meet some real people. [;)]

NBMG



JeffBC -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/1/2012 9:08:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joyfulobedience
I see submissiveness as a strength, not a weakness, like kindness.

The whole construct falls apart the moment you look at it. Define what it means to say something is a "strength". How about "weakness"? No human attribute can be considered either without both context and goal specified.

quote:

it is romantic when you put your partner before yourself, and worship the ground they walk on

Just as I, Carol's master do? Surely you don't think that selflessness is the province of subs only? If so our culture has deteriorated to the point where it's probably not salvageable.

This whole line of reasoning depends on arbitrary labels and arbitrary aeasthetic assessments which are unsupported by anything. Therefor it's safe to just ignore it and, if you want, quietly laugh to yourself at the people who spend time thinking such thoughts.



theRose4U -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/1/2012 9:12:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joyfulobedience

Ok. But I see it in generally all fetish videos. Like there is this huge assumption that we all want to be called losers and pigs. I don't get it. I have to admit I have somewhat of a female supremacy fetish, especially for that one ideal woman I hope to someday meet. But not in general. Because that's obviously not true. Who's going to rate Paris Hilton over Gandhi? Or Bin Laden over Rosa Parks? I simply don't believe the assumption that one gender is definably superior to another.

I'm willing to go all the way to Slave, but don't assume that makes me worthless.

Thank you very much for your welcoming.

Did you for one second consider that those videos are likely made BY MEN FOR MEN? Personally I don't think you painting all dommes with the same brush from some porn you watched shows you in a very good light & says even less about what you might know about real life breathing Dommes. Try taking LP's advice...turn off the TV & meet a real woman. Then you might understand how silly this distain of dommes based on porn really is!!



SacredDepravity -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/1/2012 9:28:39 AM)

No, being submissive on either side of the coin is not inferior. If I had to accept that premise, I'd probably just quit this whole thing and find something else to do with my time. While general submissiveness has its issues out there in the real world, so does dominance. A submissive person may have trouble being taken advantage of out there. A dominant one may have trouble being flexible enough to stand down when necessary. Both are not issues with dominance or submission per se, but the lack of personal growth to balance out these assets.

On the subject of male submissiveness, I am a firm believer that submissive men are a beautiful and refreshing change of pace in a world full of selfish, pushy, and rude males. Granted, there's more than enough men going around saying they are submissive when, in fact, they are just as selfish, pushy, and rude as any other guy. My hubby calls it "dude" mentality and it is ridiculous in any walk of life. Speaking of hubby, he does not identify with bdsm labels, but if I were to place him anyway, he'd definitely be on the submissive side. I have a lot of respect for him and how he approaches the world, family, friends, and especially me. There's no issue with him closing down the kitchen after working a 12 hour day for me or going out in the cold to fetch me a snack, medicine, or whatever I might need late at night. He respects my input and decision in matter both mundane and significant. He cares about my well being and that I am having the best possible life. He moves heaven and earth if I am not absolutely happy to make his world right again. THAT is a good, submissive man. I am first and, by placing me there, he feels wonderfully at peace.

Tell me that this is what you want because it is most certainly out there. These are the men a lot of women on here are looking for. This is not a game to them and they want a good RELATIONSHIP, not just some hot scene. To be honest though, it is a long and frustrating road to weed through the thousands of online profiles here there and everywhere looking for what you seek. Go where the serious boys and girls go. Get involved in your local community. Attend get togethers, classes, even events and meet actual flesh and blood people. Hey, not all of them are going to be serious either nor are they guaranteed to match up with your needs and personality, but it is a good start. While you are looking for that wonderful woman, you will be learning about your own submissiveness and different things you enjoy or that you may wish to know in order to be able to please her when you finally find her. To me, that is the best investment you can make in both yourself and that future her.

SD



Spiritedsub2 -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/1/2012 9:35:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

When you went to the movie theater to see Lord of the Rings, did you expect the world to look like Middle Earth when you left the theater?


I love love LOVE this. It needed a morning bump!



SeekingTrinity -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/1/2012 10:13:59 AM)

Im superior to no one and no one is inferior to me. Without me, a submissive cannot really be who they truly feel they are. Without the submissive, I cannot really be who I feel I truly am. My D/s is a collaboration. I just happen to be the CEO of the venture.



DesFIP -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/1/2012 11:24:34 AM)

I'd bet the majority of female dominants who say this aren't really dominant. They're young and broke and think if they do this stuff, they'll get clueless guys giving them money and won't have to do anything in return.

But the whole male = lowly worm shit comes from porn. Guys who fantasize about this, but don't do it, fantasize more extreme stuff than they would actually do. Much more extreme because it's totally unreal to them. And they fork out big bucks for porn clips of hot, leather wearing chicks saying this kind of stuff.

Unfortunately, then guys who actually do want to submit to a woman feel they have to subscribe to this and woman who do want to dominate males also feel that this is the only way. So again, clueless totally inexperienced types saying stuff they don't really mean hoping to eventually get to an authentic place. Sad.


Moral of the story, porn isn't real.



PeonForHer -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/1/2012 11:52:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joyfulobedience

Good point. So I hope you are clarifying that I'm not particularly unique, in a gentle manner. [;)]

If only there was a romantic portrayal of this kind of relationship. [:o]


J.O.

Despair not!

Try the link to the dommechronicles, in my post below. I'd back-read, too. Ferns is an example of the kind of femdom I've become used to. She doesn't see submales as inferior. She doesn't have any of the views that you see mentioned in the profiles of prodommes and there's little or nothing of the tone of standard femdom porn, either.

Your views of femdoms, and F/m relationships, have been sadly distorted - I assure you!



Aswad -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/1/2012 1:54:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

All too many dominants come to this from a place of weakness. The seek to make tbe other low so they dont feel so small. Gor and female supremecy all spring from that same place.


Cough... thanks, Michael... it's good to feel respected.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to my weak place to make nephandi a bit lower; I regularly mow her, but those extra inches keep coming back. [8|]

IWYW,
— Aswad



SacredDepravity -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/1/2012 2:32:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

Im superior to no one and no one is inferior to me. Without me, a submissive cannot really be who they truly feel they are. Without the submissive, I cannot really be who I feel I truly am. My D/s is a collaboration. I just happen to be the CEO of the venture.



Beautiful! Thank you!



littlewonder -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/1/2012 9:01:39 PM)

quit believing everything you see and hear and turn off the internet, the tv and close the porn magazine. Look at real relationships in the real world. Bdsm ain't no different whatsoever.



CharmingKitty -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/5/2012 6:10:09 AM)

The thing you need to keep in mind is that while the fetish is real the context is very pretend.



RedMagic1 -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/5/2012 6:23:54 AM)

Joyful Obedience,

Are you looking for a woman about your own age, and you check out the profiles here, and a large percentage of them start out with, "What's up, losers?" Is that part of your angst?

If so, don't sweat it. You have to understand that a lot of women that age don't have full self-dominant-awareness yet, and so they are copying what they've seen others do, and figure they'll try it out. Or they started out with sweeter profiles and got burned by horny guys, so they decided to write something tougher. (As a generalization, this is true, incidentally, for many women of any physical age, who are young in relation to online kink.)

I've talked with quite a few of the "loser"-ladies, and, believe me, that's not how they sound in real life. Maybe it would be if I had a fetish for that, I can't say, but it really feels a lot like vanilla. Have a pleasant conversation, make her laugh, be respectful.

Rule of thumb: dommes might dominate losers, but they won't date them. When you have a nightmare and are crying in the middle of the night, do you want to be held and protected by a loser, or by a strong man who also happens to do the dishes and go down on you whenever you want?



DarkSteven -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/5/2012 6:28:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joyfulobedience

If only there was a romantic portrayal of this kind of relationship. [:o]


Porn clips are there to sell, not to reflect reality.

I've always been bothered by the fact that spanking clips always start with some pretext to spank. As a Dom, I feel that the ability to spank (or any other kind of play) when i want, and not for some pretext, is a vital part of who I am, and I feel resentful that I need "permission" of some rule.

I once sat down next to the spanking luminary Lily Starr and asked her why spanking films always required a pretext. She replied that the other films, spankings just because, don't sell.

The films show what sells, not reality. Just like the women in my life very infrequently look like Scarlett Johanssen.



theRose4U -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/5/2012 8:39:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
The films show what sells, not reality. Just like the women in my life very infrequently look like Scarlett Johanssen.

Wish I would have known about this fetish sooner, she was here last week & I had a +1 I didn't use



tazzygirl -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/5/2012 10:16:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

All too many dominants come to this from a place of weakness. The seek to make tbe other low so they dont feel so small. Gor and female supremecy all spring from that same place.


Cough... thanks, Michael... it's good to feel respected.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to my weak place to make nephandi a bit lower; I regularly mow her, but those extra inches keep coming back. [8|]

IWYW,
— Aswad



~grins

I just love this post



Inghammar -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/8/2012 1:41:11 PM)

I imagine the logic train of thought goes along these directions:

submissive man = weak man = cannot provide or protect = useless

Submission and dominance are simply roles. No one has more inherent worth over the other. In the course of my dom career have I made women into objects? Yes I have. Did I tell them something along the lines of 'you cannot sit on furniture, you are furniture'. I did that too! however this was in a negotiated scene and I know where that trolley to Imagination Land stops.



PoeticSoul1 -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/9/2012 9:14:27 AM)

Of course submissives or slaves are not inferior. Why would a Dominant want to own something that is beneath them? Don't they deserve the best, someone to grow with and challenge them to be a better Dom every day? They do not deserve inferiority. My way of thinking anyway.



Kana -> RE: Sub=inferior? Something to be despised? (12/9/2012 11:59:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

Im superior to no one and no one is inferior to me. Without me, a submissive cannot really be who they truly feel they are. Without the submissive, I cannot really be who I feel I truly am. My D/s is a collaboration. I just happen to be the CEO of the venture.

Fuck that shit. I totally disagree. I'm better than a whole lot of folks. I'm a better person, I'm a better dom and I'm a better man.
Now, that ain't PC and it flies in the face of a whole lotta this modern crap, but you can stand there all day arguing til your blue in the face and there ain't no way in hell you're gonna convince me that I ain't better than, say, Ted Bundy.
Theoretically I can buy the concept that all people are created equal, but ya know what?-That idea don't play in reality. We all have different skills, values, morals, intelligence and (most important of all) actions.
So don't come to me and say I'm not, cuz I'm gonna tell you to blow it out your ass.
I am better than some folk,(Some of whom are on here, the ridiculous misogynist stupid losers for example). I'm also not as good as others (I'll argue to the day I die that the lilone is a much better person than am I, and I'm right, even if she doesn't agree.But hey, I'm the dom, so that means I'm 100% correct[8D])And that's cool.
But I will say this-I would never get involved with a slave that I thought I was better than. I won't do that to her, or to me.
Why?
Because I have too much self respect to do otherwise. If I don't believe she's my equal, I won't respect her. And I'm not wired to fall in love with anyone I don't respect. And i won't sell myself short like that.
I'm better than that. I deserve better. And you can call that whatever you want, but I call it healthy



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