RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up.

RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (Full Version)

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cordeliasub -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 6:49:03 PM)
@ Lucy, that was what I saw on facebook that made me think. The church I used to attend helped anyone pay their who had need of it for the first month. For continued help they needed to be willing to attend a financial management class. it was not a "Bible Beating" meeting; it was practical help from people in the church who were in business or accountants to help them learn to live on the budget they had, whether it be income of assistance.

Lucylastic -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 6:51:35 PM)
:) I thought it might be:)

Rule -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 7:32:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Rule That is not the primary objection to polyamorous marriages. The primary objection is that polyamorous marriages cause social instability and that it is bad for the gene pool, resulting in barbarism. I've never heard of that before. Naturally. That is because I am a supergenius and them hundreds of billions of other people throughout history are not. (Excepting a handful of other historical supergeniuses.) quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer My impression is that the primary objection to polyamorous marriages is that such marriages aren't usual, therefore they must be wrong. Whether or not they are usual usually depends on the status - mutilated or not - of the penis of the males in various culture populations. The evolutionary principle is very simple. Say that I am a beautiful and wealthy guy and have twenty females and I ain't sharing. And you are an ugly poor bloke and have a snowflake chance's in hell of ever marrying a woman. (Because there are none available, and besides they don't want you anyway.) Now due to this social instability natural selection will occur. Those guys like you without rape alleles and with conscience alleles will have their alleles become extinct as they do not reproduce. Whereas other guys like you with rape alleles and without conscience alleles will start to rape my wives. As a result the frequency of ugliness and rape alleles in the gene pool will increase and the frequency of conscience alleles will decrease, resulting in a population of heartless criminals. Now you see why polyamorous marriages cause social instability and why it is bad for the gene pool and results in barbarism? quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer But wherever and whoever said it, it was at a time when no-one knew what the hell a 'gene pool' was, anyway. Of that I'm pretty certain. Neither do mice nor any other animal know anything about gene pools nor evolution theory. Yet they evolve. As do cultures: evolve, that is.

tj444 -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 7:55:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cordeliasub @ Lucy, that was what I saw on facebook that made me think. The church I used to attend helped anyone pay their who had need of it for the first month. For continued help they needed to be willing to attend a financial management class. it was not a "Bible Beating" meeting; it was practical help from people in the church who were in business or accountants to help them learn to live on the budget they had, whether it be income of assistance. Kids are forced to go to school for 12 or so years, yet they come out of all that edumacation without the basics on how to budget and survive and thrive once they are on their own.. so whose fault is that? and imo, most parents cant teach their own kids what they dont know themselves (but thats whats expected by people that criticize the parents).. Rich people teach their kids how to be rich, cuz they know all that, poor parents can only teach their kids how to be poor, cuz thats all they know.. imo, to bring poor people's kids up to avoid poverty is that schools should be teaching this stuff & motivating kids to want to avoid poverty.. and starting the younger the better.. JMO..

tazzygirl -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 8:18:21 PM)
Avoid something they already are knee deep in?

Marini -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 8:26:23 PM)
quote: 15 years ago, when I was living on nothing, $20 bucks looked like food for a week, but a little more would have been better. 10 years ago, the scheduled 10 hours of overtime a week kept my head above water, but if I could have gotten 5 more it would have been better. Now, I want the wife to find a better job, not just because she's bored, and working below her skill level on a crappy schedule, but because the extra money would sure come in handy for some stuff we "need." to do on our house. And here's another thing. When I was dead broke, what money did pass through my hands would have gone farther if I had quit smoking. When I was working the overtime, I could have saved what I was looking to save faster if I hadn't decided that busting my ass all week entitled me to a six-pack or a bottle of low end bourbon, or a bag for Friday and Saturday nights, and maybe a few games of pool or a movie at the ghetto cheap theater. Right now, we could be skipping the dinners out, and quickie overnight getaways together to buy the materials I need for a complete deck remodel. When I drink, I could be buying the $14 a bottle bourbon, instead of the good stuff that goes for $35. Once we get past the basics of food, shelter, and the basic neccessities, perception of need becomes about perception of quality of life. I don't think that's going to be a useful standard. Rich, dig this: MOST people's wages have NOT kept up with the cost of living. I have not had any raise/or step increase in 5 years, we are FINALLY getting a step increase at the end of this month. AGAIN Rich, this is after 5 years. How many people do you know whose bills have NOT increased in 5 years? I mean luxury items like, say, FOOD? especially REAL luxury items like fruit or vegetables!!! [sm=smile.gif] also HEAT so you won't freeze to death, and GAS is also great to put into your car. I know this is another subject, but I am just saying. I am blessed that I have a fairly good job, but no raise in 5 years, I am sure has seriously hurt many people. You live in CA, don't you have a lot of city workers that are taking pay cuts? In my mind, most people, EVEN those of us that work are going backwards Rich. lol, it's hardly about getting ahead these days, it's about making ends meet, even if you are working. I am not sure about CA but in my area, last I heard about 40% of people in shelters are working, and can't afford to pay rent anywhere. Sheltered Lives/Portrait of homelessness in Northern VA More working people turn to shelters in NYC THIS is the new reality of working and "getting ahead" these days, Rich. .....many ain't! Peace

Hillwilliam -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 8:33:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Rule That is not the primary objection to polyamorous marriages. The primary objection is that polyamorous marriages cause social instability and that it is bad for the gene pool, resulting in barbarism. I've never heard of that before. My impression is that the primary objection to polyamorous marriages is that such marriages aren't usual, therefore they must be wrong. It was said in the Bible, or one of the Grimms Fairy Stories (one of the two, I can never remember which). But wherever and whoever said it, it was at a time when no-one knew what the hell a 'gene pool' was, anyway. Of that I'm pretty certain. He's full of shit as usual.

slvemike4u -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 8:42:27 PM)
Poverty is not something that can be avoided as easily as one steps around a pot hole. If nothing else such a suggestion evidences a complete misunderstanding of the complexities involved.

TheHeretic -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 8:46:28 PM)
It's certainly not my thread, Mari. The stalkers would have seen it thrashed and deleted/locked pages ago. You can check page 2 and falling, for my last one on poverty, but further replies are no longer accepted. I'm one of the people who has long been pointing out the rising cost of living, suggesting it was worth noting that a 5-pound bag of sugar is now a 4-pound bag for the same price, and that the half gallon of ice cream now has a quart and a half in it. I've also pointed out that how we calculate inflation for the official government number has been changed. They now figure that people will switch to cheaper items when prices rise, and that therefore there isn't inflation while the filet buyers can switch to rib eyes, the tri-tip buyers to london broil, and the little old ladies from tuna for people to tuna for cats. When cat food costs more than tuna used to, then will that be inflation. eta - replied before seeing your edit, and I'm not rewriting.

Marini -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 8:51:57 PM)
Rich, this thread is so long, I forgot stella started it!! lol, I thanked stella for starting it 3 days ago. Maybe next time I post on this thread, I will thank tazzy for starting the thread. [8\|] Rich, what's the answer for people that are working and trying to raise a couple of kids or keep a roof over their head, with most people's income going backwards? ..........................government programs?..................................... Hell, if they make these cuts to social security or medicare, the only way I will be able to retire will be to become a professional dominant. At least I won't be a welfare benefit scrounger, I will be an entrepreneur. lol [:D]

TheHeretic -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 9:07:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Rich, what's the answer for people that are working and trying to raise a couple of kids or keep a roof over their head, with most people's income going backwards? Opportunity, in all of its many forms. I saw a number the other day that said in a recent one year period, 1,800,000 (rounded up) new jobs were created, and over 700,000 new Social Security Disability cases were approved. Tell me we are on a track to reduce poverty.

Marini -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 9:14:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Rich, what's the answer for people that are working and trying to raise a couple of kids or keep a roof over their head, with most people's income going backwards? Opportunity, in all of its many forms. I saw a number the other day that said in a recent one year period, 1,800,000 (rounded up) new jobs were created, and over 700,000 new Social Security Disability cases were approved. Tell me we are on a track to reduce poverty. Maybe you are not getting my point here, Rich. I am asking what should become of ALL and THE MANY people who do WORK but can't afford to buy food or pay rent? Do you realize that the middle class, especially the Black middle class is damn near disappearing/being wiped out? More people are going backwards, than forwards. I have started threads on how many people are worse off than their parents, and I think deep down you already know it Rich.

tazzygirl -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 9:26:41 PM)
quote: I saw a number the other day that said in a recent one year period, 1,800,000 (rounded up) new jobs were created, and over 700,000 new Social Security Disability cases were approved. Tell me we are on a track to reduce poverty. Wouldnt have anything to do with the Baby Boomers Part of the growth in the DI program reflects the aging of the large baby-boom generation (people born between 1946 and 1964) and consequently the aging of the workforce, which has led to an increase in the share of workers who enter the DI program. Older workers are far more likely than younger workers to qualify for DI benefits. More older people suffer from debilitating conditions; moreover, the program’s qualification standards for older workers are less strict than those for younger workers because older people are assumed to be less able to adapt to new types of work. The aging of the baby-boom generation has shifted more people from the ranks of younger workers (ages 25 to 44), for whom the rate of enrollment in the DI program is lower, and into the ranks of older workers (ages 45 to 65), for whom the rate of enrollment is higher. Between calendar years 1996 and 2009—the approximate period during which the baby-boom generation entered their 50s—the share of disabled worker benefits awarded to older workers (age 45 and older) rose from 67 percent to 76 percent; mirroring that increase was the decline in the share of benefits awarded to younger workers (ages 25 to 44), which fell from 31 percent to 22 percent.10 Thus, the baby boomers’ aging would have boosted enrollment in the DI program even if no other factors had changed. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43421-DisabilityInsurance_screen.pdf

tj444 -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 9:28:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Avoid something they already are knee deep in? Thats not what I said.. No way for kids to avoid being poor if their parents are poor but some could make their way out if they were shown how to before leaving home & school.. Not that all will, but the more that can break the cycle of poverty, the less on welfare, less crime, and the more that contribute and teach their kids how to do good also.. But a poor parent doesnt have the knowledge to teach their kids what to do and what not to do (or you would think the parents would be already doing that themselves.. [8\|] ).. so imo, the schools should be doing more and not assume that the parents are teaching their kids things the parents dont know how to do themselves..

TheHeretic -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 9:30:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Maybe you are not getting my point here, Rich. I am asking what should become of ALL and THE MANY people who do WORK but can't afford to buy food or pay rent? Do you realize that the middle class, especially the Black middle class is damn near disappearing? I'm absolutely getting your point, Mari, and I'm saying that the answer that does the best for the most is going to be opportunity. Moving from crap, entry level jobs into better ones. Moving from areas with a crap economy, to areas where there are jobs. Letting kids put up a lemonade stand, without requiring they pay a permit fee to the health dept. I saw a horrifying statistic a while back, that I'll have to try and find a link for. Please read it, if I can, even though I know you are not a fan of that discussion style.

tazzygirl -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 9:31:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Avoid something they already are knee deep in? Thats not what I said.. No way for kids to avoid being poor if their parents are poor but some could make their way out if they were shown how to before leaving home & school.. Not that all will, but the more that can break the cycle of poverty, the less on welfare, less crime, and the more that contribute and teach their kids how to do good also.. But a poor parent doesnt have the knowledge to teach their kids what to do and what not to do (or you would think the parents would be already doing that themselves.. [8\|] ).. so imo, the schools should be doing more and not assume that the parents are teaching their kids things the parents dont know how to do themselves.. Many of these kids are taught athletic talent is the ticket out... a few are taught an education is... but most dont seek that route because they are dissuaded as a result of income. Hard, not impossible but very hard, to become a Doctor when no one will give you a loan for education. And now they want to cut pell grants... one of the ways many poor get any post high school education.

Marini -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 9:38:02 PM)
quote: Please read it, if I can, even though I know you are not a fan of that discussion style. what discussion style? I read a wide range of material. Believe it or not, I read/listen to those on the right a bit on a regular basis. I like to know what they are up to. I actually enjoy listening to hannity, on the radio, but I can't take but so much of him. I love listening to hannity argue with liberal callers. lol I am going to call in and get on his show one day, and ask him why does he hate liberals. Mark Levin often makes me laugh, he needs anger management. Rich, why are most of the conservatives so damn angry these days? I think they all need anger management. Peace

TheHeretic -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 9:46:37 PM)
You have mail [:D]

tj444 -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 9:47:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Avoid something they already are knee deep in? Thats not what I said.. No way for kids to avoid being poor if their parents are poor but some could make their way out if they were shown how to before leaving home & school.. Not that all will, but the more that can break the cycle of poverty, the less on welfare, less crime, and the more that contribute and teach their kids how to do good also.. But a poor parent doesnt have the knowledge to teach their kids what to do and what not to do (or you would think the parents would be already doing that themselves.. [8\|] ).. so imo, the schools should be doing more and not assume that the parents are teaching their kids things the parents dont know how to do themselves.. Many of these kids are taught athletic talent is the ticket out... a few are taught an education is... but most dont seek that route because they are dissuaded as a result of income. Hard, not impossible but very hard, to become a Doctor when no one will give you a loan for education. And now they want to cut pell grants... one of the ways many poor get any post high school education. ummm.. thats not really what I am talking about, my previous post was about teaching kids financial planning & learning how to budget and basic real-life things like that, not about giving everyone a Doctors degree.. Even if a kid does make it big in athletics, too many dont know how to handle the money, budget, invest so they get and end up broke & poor again.. making money is only part of the equation, learning how to keep what you do make and make it make you more money is the most important, imo..

TheHeretic -> RE: Welfare benefit scroungers - the evidence just doesn't add up. (12/4/2012 9:50:31 PM)
God, I despise Hannity. Even when I was up in the canyons and could only get that station, or the Spanish language one, I wouldn't listen to his crap. I'd just shut the radio off for his hours. Rush at least managed to be entertaining.

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