Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (Full Version)

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RespectAdmire -> Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 12:00:37 PM)

I wasn't sure where exactly to post this thread, so I'll just post t here and a mod can move it if necessary.

I found this book/article where a man discusses why an owner and slave should not fall in love.
http://www.getbookee.com/get_book.php?u=aHR0cDovL21pc3RyZXNzamVubi5jb20vUERGL0xvdmluZ2FzbGF2ZS5wZGYKV2h5IHNob3VsZCBhbiBPd25lciBhbmQgc2xhdmUgbm90IGZhbGwgaW4gbG92ZQ==

I always imagined if I ever find the right person and fall in love with them and them with me, it would only make the relationship stronger (more trust,..).
Now this argument goes against what I belive. Is this true or is this only 1 mans prespevtive? Or am i thinking in lines of a sub and not a slave?



GreedyTop -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 12:04:45 PM)

whatever works for you.  despite that authors opinion.  This is NOT a one-size-fits-all world.



searching4mysir -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 12:05:08 PM)

FR

For me, the book (what I read of it which was minimal) is bullshit.


I don't submit to someone I don't love and trust. I don't believe that love is blind. I believe that love is a choice that wills the best for another. It doesn't ignore flaws, but sees and accepts them.

Lust and infatuation, on the other hand, are blind.



GreedyTop -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 12:06:05 PM)

I duno, searching... when it comes to lust, he'd better be damned good looking ;)



tazzygirl -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 12:08:58 PM)

Go back to the Story of O. Was O a slave or a submissive? Yes she was in love with her Owner and he was in love with her. But was she a slave or submissive? With the knowledge that a slave is a dominant then what would that make O?

Your first clue to the mindset of the writer. But, I do sorta see his point. Some men can fall in love and still remain in control. Some cannot. Being in love or not does not make a relationshop a Master/slave one.. control does. If a man, in my opinion, can no longer control the relationship, the slave is no longer his slave and the question is moot.



soldierlvr -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 12:09:06 PM)

I am a slave, not a sub. When I met my Master it was with the intention of being his slave, not his girlfriend. I was in training for over a year and a half before he collared me as his slave. We live this every day. And we are very in love. We are now married in our vanilla life, although our relationship has the same dynamics all the time. He did not marry me until after he had collared me. I am his slave first and foremost, and we are legally married so I can move with him when the army moves him and so that I can have his insurance. I think it is ridiculous for someone to say that it is impossible for a Master and slave to be in love. It makes our trust that much deeper. It makes us even closer. Just because he loves me does not mean that I am not punished when I am bad, it does not mean that he is less strict with me. And he personally CHOSE to make me his wife as well as his slave. Whoever wrote that article is a dumbass to think that just because he feels that way it should be that way for everyone.



OsideGirl -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 12:14:31 PM)

It's one man's opinion. There are no rules (or rule books) when it comes to WIITWD. Do what works for you.



ProlificNeeds -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 12:21:20 PM)

FR~

Sounds like the author is a bit of a handicap if he can't be in love with someone AND be in control of himself. Love isn't an excuse to be a retard. It's the best reason NOT to be one.



RespectAdmire -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 12:31:30 PM)

I was under the same impression about the article, it felt wierd not being able to be in love with someone and still keep control. For me love always symbolized more trust, care.. for another person. If anything it could make the whole relationship stronger since every "action" would be intensified by love.

thank you for all of your responses. [sm=thanks.gif]



soldierlvr -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 12:36:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

FR~

Sounds like the author is a bit of a handicap if he can't be in love with someone AND be in control of himself. Love isn't an excuse to be a retard. It's the best reason NOT to be one.


Hehe, best answer EVER! I agree, there is no reason someone can't be in love AND be in control. I re-read the article, slower than the I did before I answered the first time, and it made me angry for someone to be so ignorant and to have their ignorance out there making newbies think that that is how it has to be and how "real" M/s relationships are. I feel like the love Master and I have is deeper than anything most vanilla people ever experience.



AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 12:45:16 PM)

You wouldn't let a stranger tell you how to run your marriage right? Would you let some guy tell you that 'real' husbands don't do that, or 'true' husbands always do this?

So don't let people tell you that you must do or not do something to be dominant/a Master. What works is what makes the people in the relationship feel satisfied. The internet is full of people who like to tell you how to do it properly and let you think that you're inadequate because you don't conform to their exact way of thinking.

In my experience the people who tend to write articles about the way D/s relationships 'should' work tend to be the people with little real-life experience. Human beings rarely fit into neat compartments. Unless someone is giving specific advice on a physical technique (like hot wax for example) and can back up their expertise with some real credentials, assume everything is personal opinion and absorb or disregard as it suits you.



OsideGirl -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 1:05:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders


In my experience the people who tend to write articles about the way D/s relationships 'should' work tend to be the people with little real-life experience.


Yup. I love when single people come here and tell everyone who is in long term successful relationships that we're doing it wrong.



theRose4U -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 1:29:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Yup. I love when single people come here and tell everyone who is in long term successful relationships that we're doing it wrong.


But you are & your cheeky lil bum too [8D][8D]



OsideGirl -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 1:50:18 PM)

Shouldn't my bum be cheeky? [;)]



littlewonder -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 4:55:06 PM)

Sounds to me like a man who either can't get a date in real life let alone in bdsm. I'm betting he's the jaded and bitter type of man.

If Master didn't love me I would have never been in a relationship with him because even though he's my Owner and I am his slave, at the end of the day we are still a couple in a loving, long term relationship.




DesFIP -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 5:00:53 PM)

All that really says is the guy who wrote that isn't capable of having a healthy power relationship. Because if the only way you can do this is by closing off your emotions, then you have problems.

Lots of guys are conflicted about their sexuality. They can happily do dirty, perverted shit to someone they view as a slut but not to someone they love. The fact that they have to view it as dirty and perverted says to me they have issues and aren't going to be healthy partners.

Lots of us here are in love and in power relationships. No, he doesn't go about punishing me nightly but we don't have a punishment dynamic. We problem solve instead. If I make a mistake because I didn't know what to do and he wasn't available to contact, he just tells me what to do in the future.

If I flatly refused for no reason, that would indicate that the relationship had problems, not that either of us is a bad sub/dom. And the fact that this is a power relationship doesn't mean we don't need relationship and communication skills. We still do, like any relationship.

The only reason I can see off hand not to fall in love is that if you're married to another, it's likely to cause marital problems.



theSwan -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 5:15:24 PM)

I'm fighting hard to resist the urge to write a post about as long as that article.
But to answer your question as accurately as possible, without going off in a general statement on the subject.

There is no 'thinking like a submissive' and 'thinking like a slave' since no one can define what either of those words mean to begin with.
Therefore, it cannot be true or false.
I would say, however, I doubt it is the opinion of only that one man.
It is however likely be an uncommon and unpopular opinion.

I could act as a Slave without being in Love.
I spent time with my Master without Love, or at least any form of romantic Love, being part of our equation.
Even now with that Love, we do not consider that the overruling variable in our relationship.

Without romantic Love, you have the ability to Love your purpose.
Before I 'fell in Love' with my Master, I cherished him deeply because he was my purpose.
Like a hammer would love hammering nails into wood, like a stuffed animal would love being squeezed by a child.
And that far rarer form of Love (for me) does serve more as the foundation of my relationship with him.

--

One side note, out of all the sad things that the author of that article wrote. This one I believe made me pity him the most.

quote:


But, how can you be in love with your eyes wide open.


Sounds like a man who has had a good deal of pain in his lifetime.
Never finding anything real worth loving.



theRose4U -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 5:25:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Sounds to me like a man who either can't get a date in real life let alone in bdsm. I'm betting he's the jaded and bitter type of man.

If Master didn't love me I would have never been in a relationship with him because even though he's my Owner and I am his slave, at the end of the day we are still a couple in a loving, long term relationship.



EXACTLY if I don't care about my property, or love them even a little where is my drive to teach them, care for them, or give a damn about damaging them? Reality is if you don't care for your toys they pack up & go home for good!



NuevaVida -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 5:45:09 PM)

~ Fast Reply ~

Some find it works best for them if there is no "romantic" love for the slave; others find it best if there IS "romantic" love for the slave. This discussion comes up from time to time and there is no right or wrong answer. I've seen it argued (here and elsewhere) that if a master loves the slave, then that love risks limiting what the master is willing to do with the slave. And I don't doubt that; my own owner has said he struggles with this sometimes, but for us, because we love each other, we talk through these things and have found a way for him to work past that so we both have everything we want.

We all evolve at different speeds and in different places. If you want to love your slave, then by all means love your slave and enjoy that relationship to its fullest!!



JeffBC -> RE: Why should an Owner and slave not fall in love? (12/5/2012 9:38:22 PM)

I scanned the link enough to know that what I'm looking at is a guy who's not particularly dominant and doesn't posess much self control. Accordingly, he's afraid of love because his emotions rule him rather than he ruling his emotions. Personally I think I might actually prefer to die than admit what the author admitted.

Now... insofar as how this plays out in my marriage it goes something like this. I am a dominant personality... not by agreement or contract or consent... just because I am. Carol, likewise, is a submissive personality. Accordingly, we have setup a relationship structure which fits that. You can call it "M/s" if you'd like... I make all the decisions. Carol never disobeys. Love cannot mess with that. In fact, nothing can. Either Carol or I would need to become someone different for the fundamental dynamic to change.

Does my love for Carol change the commands I give her? Oh you bet it does! But how is that me "losing control"? I kind of like being dopey in love. Therefor I give commands which foster that. How's that any different than liking blowjobs and giving commands which foster blowjobs? Does my love for Carol prevent me from giving commands she won't like? ROFL... you could ask her about that right now as she's currently staring down the barrel of a particularly nasty one. But aside from specific examples why would love stop me from doing that which is needful to maximize happiness in our marriage?

One last purely pragmatic point on control. "Love" is an incredibly strong motivator. Just because the guy who wrote that book hasn't mastered himself (and therefor shouldn't be mastering anyone else) doesn't mean that I haven't done so. And because I'm the one in control of me and my love, that love becomes an incredibly strong tool for getting Carol to do what I want her to do. So as a dominant personality I'd be a fool to take love out of my toolbox unless, like the author, I was just too incomptent to handle that tool without hurting myself.



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